So Obama DOES want to force everybody to be subject to the insurance companies

[brentspeak]

Instead of demanding a public option, he's demanding RomneyCare: you will purchase private health insurance, whether you want to or not.

Where are the idiots who were claiming that Obama wasn't going to be pushing an insurance mandate?

[Peacetrain]

1. Your late....

[Thrill]

2. I imagine a mandate will only be there if there is a public option

[brentspeak]

4. Without a UNIVERSAL public option, an insurance mandate would be gigantic stab in the back

[Thrill]

7. I think they go hand in hand. He won't do a mandate without a public option

Thats the way his speech was put together. If you listen to how it was pieced together

[Honeycombe8]

29. The Baucus committee plan has the mandate...no public option. nt

[Thrill]

39. Thats just one plan. Its no more important than the HELP com. plan

That does have a public option

[Honeycombe8]

28. I agree! nt

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

32. That's what I would think as well.

[kid a]

3. you have NO FUCKING CLUE what you are talking about

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

6. Why can't you understand simple concepts? Your claim is a strawman

No one is forcing you to keep your employer's coverage. You can opt out now, and you will be able to opt out when reform is passed. You will be required to have insurance, but no one is going to force you to accept a plan you don't like or want.

[Myrina]

8. ... but you WILL BE REQUIRED TO HAVE (BUY) insurance.

... why can't we just change the paradigm and squash the industry altogether, once and for all? Period.
Go back to the days where your dr's office just sent you a bill and you made whatever payments you could, until it was paid.
And office visits didn't cost $700.

Why must we continue to operate under the false assumption that insurance is necessary?? :shrug:

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. The bill is $700 because you're paying for millions without insurance

Let's go slow:

Exchange of which one option is the public plan.

So how are you being "forced" to buy a private plan?

[Telly Savalas]

12. When hospital visits are a bare minimum several thousand dollars

and can sometimes run up to several hundred thousand dollars some form of risk pooling becomes necessary. In most Western democracies, it's a government program which does this, but it's still done. If we adopted your proposal, hospitals would have insufficient funding to cover their operating expenses. Whether it's single-payer Medicare for All or just minor tweaks of the current system, an insurance type structure for health care financing is necessary.

[janx]

13. Because the insurance companies now have the doctors both

coming and going. Doctors can't do that anymore.

[ProudDad]

16. You've got $4000

for a visit to the ER?

[ProSense]

18. Why, you don't want coverage even through the public option? n/t

[grantcart]

10. Up until now I thought it was a reading disability but it also appears to effect his hearing as well

[Telly Savalas]

14. It has nothing to do with listening or reading comprehension skills.

It's a consistent pattern of intentionally distorting the facts.

[jeanpalmer]

17. What happens if you don't like any of the plans?

Because let's face it, they're all gonna be overpriced. There's no price reduction mechanism, so they'll be at current exorbitant rates.

[ProSense]

20. There is a rate cap, and the cost will only go down with competition. n/t

[jeanpalmer]

26. Even with a full public option

premiums were estimated to go down by 10%. That's not much considering the current high cost of healthcare. Barely scratching the surface. But we're not getting a public option. All we're getting is competition on insurance premiums, without cost control at the provider level. So how much of a reduction? 5%? 2%? You can have competition at the insurance premium level, but if costs are still skyrocketing, prices will still go up, from an extremely high level that won't be reduced.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robo50]

22. There is always Canada!

The UK, France, Germany.

About 10% of income goes for health insurance there.

Try one of those.

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. Then the rest of us get to pay for your scofflaw ass

You're the queen of ethical behavior!

[brentspeak]

38. Let's review your posting history concerning Obama and the mandate

Just a couple weeks ago, your responses to Marc Ambinder's assertion that the White House would be pushing a mandate:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8600535&mesg_id=8600544

ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. The media must really believe people are stupid

Some are, but still.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8600535&mesg_id=8600591

ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. If that's the way you want to look at it.

Not the first time he has been wrong. This smells like a media campaign. The notion that the WH believes progressives want a mandate is ludicrous.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8600535&mesg_id=8600602

ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-19-09 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. The only person who counts when it comes to what the WH believes is Obama, and
it beyond ludicrous to claim he believes progressives want a mandate.

[Myrina]

9. Indeed. I am more than a bit dismayed after hearing the speech.

:( Meet the new boss ...

[Becky72]

15. Obama has been supporting a mandate for a while now

I don't know how you just discovered it.

[brentspeak]

27. Two bizarre statements in one post

1) "Some time now", as in a http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1913410-4,00.html">for about a month. Prior to that, and as he campaigned, he was against a mandate.

2) I was aware of it. And as any child could tell, the OP was directed at those who have been busy misleading others herethat Obama really wasn't pursuing a mandate, after all. Your claiming that I "just discovered it" is straight out of Disingenuous Logic 101.

[treestar]

19. Wait a minute, doesn't everyone want it?

Do you hate banks too? Baseball teams? What other organizations do you hate on sight? My God, this is so stupid!!

Not wanting to buy it and not doing so is a repuke/libertarian thing. Yeah, you have the right not to be insured and to take your chances!

[brentspeak]

33. Who's "everyone"?

People want to get away from private health insurance, DLC Shill. They do not want to pay 1/5 of their income on health insurance, even if, in the rare instance, that insurance doesn't screw them over in the end.

Have you been following this whole "public option" debate, or did you just wander in from off the street?

[prolesunited]

21. Just the same way I am *forced* to pay into Social Security

and Medicare. These are both types of insurance programs to take care of the public good for all.

[robo50]

24. Some people here want "freedom" and no $ payments in their lives

they want FREE!

Let them see what life is like somewhere else, if they can't deal with paying for health care.

Oh wait, all OTHER modern democracies have PAYMENTS, in taxes or otherwise, for health care.

Never mind!

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robo50]

40. I don't call people "idiot" and you shouldn't either you rude person... here's the

facts... NO ONE FORCES YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO one WILL force you to spend 20% of your income on insurance..

Where you come up with these "idiotic" concepts and "facts" is a mystery to people with real brains, real logical thinking patterns.

You, instead, provide NO FACTS, NO LINKS, just your own imagination run wild... Free Republic is full of people like you..

Try for logic and facts in your next life, and please, don't be such an insulting bastard to fellow DU posters....just give the facts.

[fadedrose]

23. Insurance companies' new regulations may lead to many of

them getting out of the health insurance business...no more $2 mil bonuses for executives, no high profits, hell, they'd be better off getting into some other activity, gold-mining or something.

The more that quit, the more people will be able to go into the public option, and in a few years, wallah, universal health care.

Baby steps, one at a time....

[robo50]

41. Fine, no one should give a million dollars to a non-medically trained person

in part of the cost of providing health care to Americans.

The less insurance companies, the better.

[mvd]

25. While I thought it was a persusive speech and hopefully..

charmed those blue dogs and couple moderate Repukes, I think it's fair to say there were some worries still (which I outlined in the speech thread.) One thing I didn't like was that the exchange will start in 4 years while he'll get someone on malpractice "reform" tomorrow.

[fadedrose]

30. It's more like the insuance companies will be forced to be subject to everybody...nt

[Teaser]

31. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

.

[robo50]

42. insightful comment...I see you are full of them, based upon

all your previous posts. Insulting, too!

[Abe66]

34. brentspeak sounds so disappointed, his worst nightmare has been realised -

Barack Obama isn't a failure.

[EndElectoral]

43. Obama's cavalier dismissal of Single Payer as unworkable (which is what Medicare is) was troubling

His brief reference to the public option for ONLY those who are uninsured and CAN'T get insurance elsewhere was troubling on how weak he was. His pushing of exchanges, fees for those who are uninsured were not exactly hopeful.

I think he is a forceful and elegant speaker, however I think his polcies aqre centrist, and cater to industry while trying to placate the already insured.

While I applaud his attempts on rescission and pre-existing conditions, insurance companies will simply raise premiums to cover the cost of being forced to pick up those people, and if there is no public option for a person to turn to those costs will escalate.

But what bothered me the most was his brief comment on Single payer for progressives as unworkable with our current system. I wonder if LBJ had said that in 1964. Obama quoted the movements to reform health care from Teddy Roosevelt to Teddy Kennedy (who was in favor of universal coverage). He cited Medicare and Social Security as pinnacles of fighting for people. Obama, these are BOTH government programs. Essentially, if retirement programs were only controlled by industry would Obama feel that Social Security would be unworkable as a public option towards retirement.

I think his demeanor was great, his voice strong, but I didn't think the substance was that of a liberal democrat, more a centrist who is overly concerned about bipartisanship and appeasing to the health care industry while attempting to implement a few things that will help Americans. Overall, this bill will help insurance companies rather than hurt them.