For any still questioning about the public option.. I will repost

[Peacetrain]

The President said this tonight.. I don't know how the President could have said it any clearer, unless he spelled it out letter by letter..

"But I will not back down on the basic principle that if Americans can’t find affordable coverage, we will provide you with a choice. And I will make sure that no government bureaucrat or insurance company bureaucrat gets between you and the care that you need."

[Honeycombe8]

1. No, that got by me. His speech was so full of info! Thx. I needed that! nt

[Peacetrain]

2. Your welcome.. that was a meaty speech

:hi:

[fadedrose]

19. Think of the blacksmiths...

they went out of business slowly. They had time to retrain to be auto mechanics before all the horses were gone.

With new regulations, insurance companies will phase themselves out - you know, give them enough rope, and sure enough, they'll hang themselves.

CEO's who are used to giving bonuses for money saved can't do that anymore; Low profit or no profit - and they have to insure actual sick people, not just well ones....

They can start selling policies offering services to sick people - I've seen ads where they cover cleaning, dog walking, driving, etc..they'll make out in time.

[Honeycombe8]

32. That would be my hope. Hope. A lovely word. I hope I'm not being taken for a ride. nt

[Abe66]

3. Thank you Peacetrain, but it won't stop the DU hateleaders!

[Peacetrain]

4. Welcome to the DU...

[Abe66]

5. Thank you!

[BlooInBloo]

34. Wow. You learn quick.

[DJ13]

6. That ......doesnt necessarily mean a public option

Obama keeps talking about his lame brained "insurance marketplace" where the government oversees available private insurance to (hope) try to foster competition and reduce premiums.

A real public option it aint.

[NYC_SKP]

12. Maybe you need to read through it...

"As proof, critics point to a provision in our plan that allows the uninsured and small businesses to choose a publicly-sponsored insurance option, administered by the government just like Medicaid or Medicare."

snip

"But an additional step we can take to keep insurance companies honest is by making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange. Let me be clear – it would only be an option for those who don’t have insurance. No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5% of Americans would sign up."

snip

"Despite all this, the insurance companies and their allies don’t like this idea. They argue that these private companies can’t fairly compete with the government. And they’d be right if taxpayers were subsidizing this public insurance option. But they won’t be. I have insisted that like any private insurance company, the public insurance option would have to be self-sufficient and rely on the premiums it collects."

snip

"It’s worth noting that a strong majority of Americans still favor a public insurance option of the sort I’ve proposed tonight."

snip-- And in case you think he's talking about a co-op, he's not:

"For example, some have suggested that that the public option go into effect only in those markets where insurance companies are not providing affordable policies. Others propose a co-op or another non-profit entity to administer the plan. These are all constructive ideas worth exploring. But I will not back down on the basic principle that if Americans can’t find affordable coverage, we will provide you with a choice. And I will make sure that no government bureaucrat or insurance company bureaucrat gets between you and the care that you need.

end snipping

Good day.

Have a donut.

:donut:

:patriot:

[ipaint]

18. So taxpayers will be subsidizing private for profit plans but not the

public option for those of us who don't have insurance and can't afford private ins. even with a subsidy.

Maybe someone could also explain how a public option filled with the uninsured most of us sick and poor can be self supporting and unsubsidized by taxpayer dollars. The costliest patients will be dumped by the ins. companies in preparation for the opening of this unsubsidized semi public option.

[NYC_SKP]

54. It won't work unless they let others choose the public option.

I agree, it can't be just for people who can't get insurance otherwise, that's not competition and the pool would be mostly losses.

No, they have to let healthy working people without employer provided plans have access to the public plan.

I can't imagine it won't be offered up that way, it can't work any other way.

:shrug:

[LooseWilly]

50. A couple of details... left too vague for comfort.

" making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange. Let me be clear – it would only be an option for those who don’t have insurance."

The only an option for those who don't have insurance detail catches my eye. I can't help but wonder if that means only those who "can't" get private insurance, after it's mandated... as in only the "uninsurable"... or if it is meant to be a genuine alternate choice for those of us with no health insurance.

To then go on to say " I have insisted that like any private insurance company, the public insurance option would have to be self-sufficient and rely on the premiums it collects." ... considering the fact that the public option as described could be applied to an option that winds up being solely for the "uninsurable"... it stands to reason that such an option would not be able to be afforded, without subsidies, by the people who would find themselves qualified for the plan... at which point the plan will fail, as it must do, leaving the public plan dead once again.


Of course, these are worst case implementations of reform within the parameters outlined in the speech. The fact that they do fall within the parameters outlined in the speech, however, makes me nervous. I can't help but feel like Obama and his advisors have (understandably) staked out some rhetorical territory that will allow them to claim victory, no matter how much they have to sell the public out to the centrist Senators. The problem is... that makes worry that they are prepared to do exactly that.

[ipaint]

62. My question is exactly who is so unsettled by a strong public option,

one open to all and has the ability to drive down cost on private premiums, that the president felt it necessary to reiterate clearly just how small the public option will be?

Who the hell was he talking to because it wasn't the majority of Americans who want to see insurance companies heavily regulated and cost reigned in.

[JustGinger]

63. It opens the path

to a one payer system such as Canada and England have. Putting insurance companies out of business is what the right fears.

[kath]

60. i.e - it would only be available to a TINY # of people - NOT a robust, meaningful public option.

[johnaries]

7. "I will not back down". Yep, I don't know how it could be clearer. nt

[madfloridian]

8. From Reuters...in four years when we get the exchange.

" DOES THE PLAN CREATE A PUBLIC OPTION?

It proposes a not-for-profit government-run healthcare insurance program to be part of new "insurance exchange" and compete with private insurers.

The public option -- which has been strongly resisted by insurance companies -- would be available only to those without insurance. Obama said less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up for it, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates.

The public option would not be taxpayer subsidized, and would have to be self-sufficient and rely on premiums it collects.

The insurance exchange, a marketplace where individuals and small businesses would be able to shop for health insurance, would take effect in four years. Obama said customers would benefit because they would bargain with insurers as a large group. The plan would provide need-based tax credits for those who could not afford insurance from the exchange."

http://www.reuters.com/article/americasRegulatoryNews/idUSN0934632320090910

[rug]

9. That's not the public option, that's the "insurance exchange" that will take effect in four years.

This is the public option:

"Now, I have no interest in putting insurance companies out of business. They provide a legitimate service, and employ a lot of our friends and neighbors. I just want to hold them accountable. The insurance reforms that I've already mentioned would do just that. But an additional step we can take to keep insurance companies honest is by making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange. Let me be clear – it would only be an option for those who don't have insurance. No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5% of Americans would sign up."

[Spazito]

10. He also said this which seems has been missed by some DUers...

"First, if you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance through your job, or Medicare, or Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.

Let me -- let me repeat this: nothing in our plan requires you to change what you have.

What this plan will do is make the insurance you have work better for you. Under this plan, it will be against the law for insurance companies to deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition.

As soon as I sign this bill, it will be against the law for insurance companies to drop your coverage when you get sick or water it down when you need it the most.

They will no longer be able to place some arbitrary cap on the amount of coverage you can receive in a given year or in a lifetime.

We will place a limit on how much you can be charged for out-of- pocket expenses, because in the United States of America, no one should go broke because they get sick.

And insurance companies will be required to cover, with no extra charge, routine checkups and preventive care, like mammograms and colonoscopies.

Because there's no reason we shouldn't be catching diseases like breast cancer and colon cancer before they get worse.

That makes sense. It saves money and it saves lives.

That's what Americans who have health insurance can expect from this plan: more security and more stability."


Link to full transcript:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/09/obama.health.care.transcript/


This is separate and apart from any public plan. These protections will be part of the bill as well.

[polichick]

11. Did you miss this part?

"Let me be clear – it would only be an option for those who don’t have insurance."

[Spazito]

13. For those who have insurance....

These safeguards and changes will be put into place:

"First, if you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance through your job, or Medicare, or Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.

Let me -- let me repeat this: nothing in our plan requires you to change what you have.

What this plan will do is make the insurance you have work better for you. Under this plan, it will be against the law for insurance companies to deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition.

As soon as I sign this bill, it will be against the law for insurance companies to drop your coverage when you get sick or water it down when you need it the most.

They will no longer be able to place some arbitrary cap on the amount of coverage you can receive in a given year or in a lifetime.

We will place a limit on how much you can be charged for out-of- pocket expenses, because in the United States of America, no one should go broke because they get sick.

And insurance companies will be required to cover, with no extra charge, routine checkups and preventive care, like mammograms and colonoscopies.

Because there's no reason we shouldn't be catching diseases like breast cancer and colon cancer before they get worse.

That makes sense. It saves money and it saves lives."

The insurance one has will change radically, it will NOT have the abuses that are currently in place.

[polichick]

14. But how can you create "competition" for private insurance companies...

...if so few people can buy into the public plan ~ doesn't make sense.

[Peacetrain]

16. First of all.. the 5% is not a limit on who can buy into the public plan

That was just the CBO's assessment of those who would want to buy into it.. could be 20%, could be 10%..

[polichick]

17. As he said...

"Let me be clear – it would only be an option for those who don’t have insurance."

Sorry, but that sucks.

[Peacetrain]

20. Here is his exact words

making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange. Let me be clear - it would only be an option for those who don't have insurance. No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5% of Americans would sign up.

[polichick]

21. Exactly - so how will the public option create competition if so few can buy into it?

[Peacetrain]

24. That was his whole point of creating the public option.. to lower the cost of

insurance.. So if the public option is open, and people can choose to take it.. then the insurance companies will lower their cost to compete. People who have insurance and like what they have it,, be it BC/BS or HMO's whatever, if they can get it at a lower cost, most people will keep what they have. If they don't like it, then there will be the PO..

[polichick]

25. Right - except he said it WON'T be available to everyone...

"Let me be clear – it would only be an option for those who don’t have insurance."

That's not enough to create competition.

[Peacetrain]

27. You are going in circles... If you have insurance, and like what you have

why would you want to pay for a second public insurance? If you do not like what you have, then you might want to opt for the PO. But if you are already covered, by a plan that works..

[polichick]

28. Lol - you keep saying that we could opt for the po, but the prez...

...said tonight that the vast majority of us could NOT opt for it.

Lots of people who presently have insurance (including my Congressman) were hoping to buy into the public option in order to bring down our premiums and support the new system.

[Peacetrain]

30. That is the difference between single payer and po..

But again.. the President did not say you could NOT opt for it.. but that most would choose NOT to opt for it.. here are his words again


making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange. Let me be clear - it would only be an option for those who don't have insurance. No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5% of Americans would sign up.

[polichick]

33. For some reason, you aren't taking in these words (included in your post)...

"Let me be clear - it would only be an option for those who don't have insurance."

[Peacetrain]

37. lets try it another way.. the po is for people who do not have access to insurance.

My brother does not have health insurance..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8590485


He could get a state plan, but it would cost him more than he makes. With a public option, he would be able to choose that over the catastrophic state plan.

I have insurance, why would I want to pay for a second set of coverages?

Now if I lose my job, hey I have an option.. or if my insurance carrier decides to bump my premiums out of sight.. guess what, I have a public option I can access.. otherwise, I would not use it, because paying for two separate insurance coverages at once is ludicrous

[polichick]

39. That's what I don't like about it - if the public option isn't available to ALL of us...

...it won't create the competition needed to force private companies to lower premiums.

As I said earlier, many of us (including my Congressman) wanted to SWITCH from our current plan to the public plan.

[Peacetrain]

40. Your congressman has one of the best insurance programs going..

Why would he want to switch to a PO?.. He can choose from the best and get the best prices..

[polichick]

43. Because he wants to support a gov't system rather than the private...

...system that rips us off ~ he wrote a letter to his constituents about it. My husband and I have very good healthcare but we would like to support a public system too.

[Peacetrain]

46. That is a whole different ball game polichick.. that is single payer..

[polichick]

47. Single payer would get rid of private insurers completely...

A public option could be available to anyone who wants to buy in, not just to those currently uninsured, and the private insurers would still be in business.

[Peacetrain]

48. Actually that is kind of funny, because that is what Obama ran on .. getting us the same coverage as

congress..

[polichick]

52. Yeah - wish I kept his letter. My guy is actually a blue dog and a big...

...supporter of the public option.

[Peacetrain]

55. PO really is important.. The 80% of us satisfied with our coverages

are just one catastrophic happening away from being uninsured. We get the public option established.. I think we can then start the long hard slog to single payer.

Just think how hard and long it took to get us here.

[dgibby]

29. You can't opt for it if you don't like your insurance.

It's only for those who are already uninsured.

[Peacetrain]

31. Exactly.. why would you want to pay for 2 seperate insurances? one private and one public

Now that would be a waste of you finances

[Romulox]

58. If you already have insurance, you cannot choose the so-called "public option" INSTEAD

of that private insurance. Regardless of whether you like it or not.

[amandabeech]

61. But most people don't get to choose their insurance. Their employer does that.

So if their employer only offers a crappy plan, it sounds like a dissatisfied employee can't drop it and look for something else in the exchange.

There isn't any "Medigap" type plan available for people with a cruddy employer plan even if people could afford it, either.

[Spazito]

23. The competition will be among the insurance companies because those who do NOT

abide with the protections that will be included in the bill will NOT be allowed access to compete. The public plan will not only be available to those presently uninsured but for others as well:

"... if you lose your job or you change your job, you'll be able to get coverage. If you strike out on your own and start a small business, you'll be able to get coverage. We'll do this by creating a new insurance exchange, a marketplace where individuals and small businesses will be able to shop for health insurance at competitive prices.

Insurance companies will have an incentive to participate in this exchange because it lets them compete for millions of new customers. As one big group, these customers will have greater leverage to bargain with the insurance companies for better prices and quality coverage. This is how large companies and government employees get affordable insurance. It's how everyone in this Congress gets affordable insurance. And it's time to give every American the same opportunity that we give ourselves.

Now, for those individuals and small businesses who still can't afford the lower-priced insurance available in the exchange, we'll provide tax credits, the size of which will be based on your need.

And all insurance companies that want access to this new marketplace will have to abide by the consumer protections I already mentioned."

It is within that exchange where the public option will be available as one of the choices.

[OwnedByFerrets]

15. Where are the cost caps in premiums?

[Captain Hilts]

22. And other reforms force/encourage people into private ins. programs. nt

[polichick]

26. So it's a BIG win for them. nt

[EndElectoral]

36. Exactly.

[jtuck004]

35. Why this?

There will be a hardship waiver for those individuals who still cannot afford coverage...


What would be the point if there will be insurance for all?

[Peacetrain]

38. A little more detail in your inquiry...not sure what you are asking

[jtuck004]

42. Sorry, just wondering

Your
""But I will not back down on the basic principle that if Americans can’t find affordable coverage, we will provide you with a choice. And I will make sure that no government bureaucrat or insurance company bureaucrat gets between you and the care that you need.""

In the transcript I read it talks about a waiver for those who cannot afford coverage. Why would they need that if they will provide us with a choice that is affordable. So does choice mean no coverage for them? Doesn't that put them in the ER, which is part of the problem?

[Peacetrain]

44. No it means that if you can buy insurance from the goverment..

At a set price. If you as an individual try to get insurance on your own.. you will pay approx triple the premium payment of someone who is getting their insurance through a group. It basically puts you into a government group as it were. You still pay a premium.. (if you are out of work, low income etc, then it would be graduated to your pay scale) but you still pay a premium.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. You still pay premiums for a public plan

It is self-financed through premiums so we don't balloon the national debt.

The big question is whether this plan will drive down premiums.

[jtuck004]

49. Pre-existing conditions

The reason pre-existing conditions are excluded is because they raise costs.

There ain't no way you can include them without increasing costs. You might drop the so-called unnecessary tests, but now you are adding care that must be paid for, and per person they will be more expensive than the healthy people they are adding. And that comes from a pool of 47 million people without insurance (where does this number come from? that or 43 million is bandied about a lot on the radio and tv shows) who are going to be made to buy insurance from the companies who have been sticking it to us for a long time. Those 47 million must be hoarding a lot of cash somewhere for this to work. Oh yeah, work - are they working?


Dear Insurance Company:

President Obama has promised me a tax credit to pay for my insurance. Will you please start my coverage, and I will get it to you as soon as they send it in the mail?

Thank you,

Formerly denied

[Peacetrain]

51. So that is why you want the PO... that is what the President is pushing for

My brother is in the same boat

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8590485

[jtuck004]

56. Public Option

Well, not for me, but I know a number of people not nearly as fortunate. My wife works in the administration of a school, lower level accounting but with good family benefits.

I just know that we can do better than we can, and I truly believe that we need to simply issue a medicare card to everyone - yes, it would make the insurance companies go out of business. oh darn.

By the way, ever looked at health insurance companies? A bunch of secretaries, a few very rich owners, a varying number of salespeople. they don't create anything, it's just a money passing scheme. I think the government (which is us, btw <g>) can do it just as well if not better.

thank you

[jeanpalmer]

59. The way I read it

Insurance will be mandatory, but lower income people's premiums will be partially subsidized by the government through tax credits. However, the people who are too poor to afford insurance even with a subsidy will get a hardship waiver and will not be forced to buy insurance. These people will be uninsured. Unclear what circumstances or level of income will allow someone to claim hardship. As Obama says, the details still need to be worked out.

[JustGinger]

64. very poor.

Most people who are that poor qualify for state aid.

[Overseas]

45. And in retrospect, I do respect President Obama for saying a lot that needed to be said.

He used the bully pulpit to a noble purpose.

And let's face it-- reposting from my DU journal--

The private insurers really went to town during the Bush years-- got more and more bold about jacking up their profits by dumping the sick and charging companies 300% more for daring to hire older workers. They zoomed right along, taking full advantage of the Bush Cheney pro-corporate mandate. I hadn't heard the new term "recision" (even spell check doesn't have it) until recently-- aka dropping coverage, but recision sounds so much more clinical and dispassionate, doesn't it?

They figured out how to increase a 4% overhead nonprofit system into one that gets 25% !! Woo hoo !!

They figured out how to lobby really well. How to support the legislative process. Backed up with how to hire the right folks to bully and intimidate the opposition. Amoral right wing PR firms that gin up dangerous fear and hatred in vulnerable populations, "genuine grass roots groups" that have "been around for years" (just oddly dormant during Republican administrations).

They have clearly demonstrated their power for decades. So our President seems to have been trying to find a way around that block of bullies. And we always said we would like to have what those politicians themselves get, and by golly, he's setting that up for us. That will be interesting. How will Republican Congresspeople be able to go around telling us we shouldn't have what they now get? They look pretty healthy to me. Even Boehner and his spray tan.

So although I want the leeches out right away, there were indeed some magnificent aspects to his speech. Our President told us all what the conservative-dominated media has been trying to promote as the dominant topic was a fraud. That needed saying. The Emperor has no clothes. People with whom we have been trying to have a meaningful debate have been distorting the issues. We all know it. Yet the main broadcast news channels pretend it is not so. Unfortunately, all that needed to be said. Calling the right wing out on their posturing fake dialog and delay tactics was a great use of the bully pulpit.

Republicans warned him not to go after them. It wouldn't be seemly, I believe Mitch McConnell said. Gee, why not have Pull the Plug on Grandma Grassley give that statement? I'm glad President Obama ignored those warnings. He said a lot that needed to be said. What we know in our living rooms. This is not about ideology-- this is about national security. Real terror we feel at our kitchen tables.

((That's why I'm pissed that we don't just do Medicare for All, from our taxes, pure and simple. A national security issue-- health security for all. BUT I REALIZE-- that is the anathema of the right because it would be a tangible good feeling from the abominable act of paying taxes. We can't jump in there because that's where the mega-machine of private profits roars to the fore full fury. And even their cheap bullying this summer has been dangerous enough.))

So I guess we've got to take baby steps. So I'm glad we're actually taking adolescent steps. To reassure everyone, we'll start with the existing framework. Give our constituents what those in congress have-- an insurance exchange. It's what our congressmen get. I haven't heard any complaints from them. That plus a tiny public option-- letting me buy into Medicare, would be just fine.

[Peacetrain]

53. Yep steps.. Also we have 2.5 million people employed by the insurance companies..

[jtuck004]

57. Employees of insurance companies

2.5 million people employed by ins cos, engaged in money shuffling that could be done by low level govt employees. All the secretary's could go to work for us at the local medicare office, the owners could take their billions and buy a place on an offshore island. To keep shuffling money to ins cos is just social welfare. And the owners will still take a disproportionate share.

I would just as soon pay for health care for the folks in the trailer court. And feed everyone at the same time.

[Overseas]

65. Well surely, yes indeed.

But these are some harball powerful bullies we're up against. The private insurers have run rampant for 8 years now. I tried to ignore them. But they've been blazing ahead with epic cruelty. Seems almost like they'll stop at nothing.

I want Medicare for All--paid by taxes-- feel the good that can come from paying taxes-- right at your own kitchen table. I want Americans to feel the deep security that paying taxes for universal health care can bring us all.

But that is kryptonite to the Super Corporations.

In the meantime, give the public what Congress has, is a very intriguing option. I'd love to hear how Republican congresspeople are going to get around the question of why they won;t endorse giving their constituents the "insurance exchange" basket that they've enjoyed for all these years.

The insurance exchange plus a teeny weeny public option-- no threat at all-- is an intriguing way to introduce the fundamental change we need.Maybe we have to dress the public option in drab clothes to sneak it by the profiteering bullies.