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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-09-09 11:08 PM
Original message
Andrew Sullivan comments liveblog
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/09/liveblogging-healthcare.html

Sullivan is an Independent who voted for Obama, and a frequent guest on Bill Maher's show. He live blogs during the speech....earliest comments are at the bottom, and they read up. Interesting, thoughtful comments, IMO.

*********************

"9.04 pm. A masterful speech, somehow a blend of governance and also campaigning. He has Clinton's mastery of policy detail with Bush's under-rated ability to give a great speech. But above all, it is a reprise of the core reason for his candidacy and presidency: to get past the abstractions of ideology and the easy scorn of the cable circus and the cynicism that has thereby infected this country's ability to tackle pressing problems. This was why he was elected, and we should not be swayed by the old Washington and the old ideologies and the old politics. He stands at the center urging a small shift to more government because the times demand it.

And he makes sense. And this was not a cautious speech; it was a reasoned but courageous speech. He has put his presidency on the line for this. And that is a hard thing to do.

9.02 pm. This is Burke and Smith:

knew that when any government measure, no matter how carefully crafted or beneficial, is subject to scorn; when any efforts to help people in need are attacked as un-American; when facts and reason are thrown overboard and only timidity passes for wisdom, and we can no longer even engage in a civil conversation with each other over the things that truly matter – that at that point we don’t merely lose our capacity to solve big challenges. We lose something essential about ourselves.

It is a defense of limited but strong government. It is not anti-conservative.

9 pm. Am I the only one to find these final themes very Catholic?

8.58 pm. The pivot to Teddy struck me as a Democratic party move. But it moved me nonetheless. And this passage brings the bipartisan peroration to a real close:

That large-heartedness – that concern and regard for the plight of others – is not a partisan feeling. It is not a Republican or a Democratic feeling. It, too, is part of the American character. Our ability to stand in other people’s shoes. A recognition that we are all in this together; that when fortune turns against one of us, others are there to lend a helping hand. A belief that in this country, hard work and responsibility should be rewarded by some measure of security and fair play; and an acknowledgement that sometimes government has to step in to help deliver on that promise.

This is a liberalism most centrists can live with.

8.53 pm. He's now offering tort reform - on the Bush lines. I've long wanted that to be in the bill. I see no reason why not. It should have been in there from the beginning.

8.47 pm. Now that's the truth:

Part of the reason I faced a trillion dollar deficit when I walked in the door of the White House is because too many initiatives over the last decade were not paid for – from the Iraq War to tax breaks for the wealthy. I will not make that same mistake with health care.

8.46 pm. "I will not back down on the basic principle that if Americans can’t find affordable coverage, we will provide you with a choice." That's the commitment to some kind of public option.

8.43 pm. His description of the public option - that it can provide more efficient treatment because it doesn't need to make large profits and because it will have less overhead - is the best framing I've heard.

8.41 pm. He's framing the public option in the conservative language of competition and consumer choice. Smart move. And he isn't demonizing the insurance companies: he's saying they are merely encouraged by the system to over-price and under-deliver.

8.38 pm. Obama takes on Palin hard: "It is a lie, plain and simple." Of course it is. Palin said it.


8.37 pm. This laugh-line should have been left out:

While there remain some significant details to be ironed out ...
8.35 pm. The nod to McCain and Clinton is very Obama. He's actually bragging of his capacity to change his mind and adopt others' ideas. Can you imagine Bush ever saying such a thing?

8.34 pm. And now a touch of populism:

It’s how everyone in this Congress gets affordable insurance. And it’s time to give every American the same opportunity that we’ve given ourselves.

8.30 pm. This is the big sell to the center:

Under this plan, it will be against the law for insurance companies to deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition. As soon as I sign this bill, it will be against the law for insurance companies to drop your coverage when you get sick or water it down when you need it most. They will no longer be able to place some arbitrary cap on the amount of coverage you can receive in a given year or a lifetime. We will place a limit on how much you can be charged for out-of-pocket expenses, because in the United States of America, no one should go broke because they get sick. And insurance companies will be required to cover, with no extra charge, routine checkups and preventive care, like mammograms and colonoscopies – because there’s no reason we shouldn’t be catching diseases like breast cancer and colon cancer before they get worse. That makes sense, it saves money, and it saves lives.

This is what appeals to me, despite my worries about fiscal expansion. After reading so many emails from so many people of terrible stories from the current system, I'm persuaded by the moral argument.

8.29 pm. He's fired up. This is the campaign Obama, appealing to the center against the old politics.

8.27 pm. Classic Obama pivot: describe the right and the left and then say he is in the middle. And the Burkean twist: "I believe it makes more sense to build on what works and fix what doesn’t, rather than try to build an entirely new system from scratch."


8.25 pm. Now the deficit question. He deflects the charge that he is spending too much money by arguing that healthcare reform, if done right, would be the most important fiscal reform we have.

8.22 pm. "It can happen to anyone." "No one should be treated that way in the United States of America." SO far a clear and moral case against the anxiety and cruelty of the current system. The pivot to the middle class is a way to deflect the Republican attack that he is an old-style tax-and-spend welfare-coddling liberal.

8.20 pm. The way he said "determined" suggested to me he meant it. He's all-in.

8.18 pm. A note on the recession just to show he has not forgotten the economy in favor of healthcare. And a nice reminder of the dreadful economy he inherited.

8.15 pm. Live-streaming is fun because the frames freeze every now and again and I just looked for a minute or so at an image of the president virtually bowing to the Speaker. The reception for Obama is pretty boisterous - a way for the Dems to vent a little after their August dust-up?"

*********************

Too long for quoting? I forget the limit on the length.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-09-09 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. "I'm persuaded by the moral argument."
Edited on Wed Sep-09-09 11:13 PM by Clio the Leo
And so were many others I believe.

Nice to have a good CHRISTIAN President in the White House. ;)

(note: the above is a swipe at Bush and the GOP, nothing more, nothing less, take it for what it is)
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-09-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Oops, wrong place - please delete
Edited on Wed Sep-09-09 11:43 PM by housewolf


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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-09-09 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for posting this
Enjoyed Andrew's comments. He's one conservative I can listen to sometimes 'cause he actually thinks things through and doesn't just repeat knee-jerk talking points.

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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-09-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. He says he's an Independent. He's a fiscal conservative, social liberal. He voted for Obama. nt
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-09-09 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yeah, support from Conservative Corporatists who used to vote GOP.
Yea :eyes:
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-09-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yay, indeed. Indies like him are one of the reasons Obama won. And why Dems will win in 2010.
You and Kucinich can sit in a corner and yell "single payer" all day long, but you won't get very far if you don't have more than half the country voting for you. Like Obama did. And that means you HAVE to have Independents and moderates voting for you.

It is a GOOD thing to have people who voted for you, actually support your policies. It is a GOOD thing for the citizens to like the President, his message, and his plans.

Independents are not your enemy. (Sullivan is an Independent who strongly supported Obama during the campaign - on TV - loudly and clearly, and who voted for him.)
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-09-09 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Yes, winning is EVERYTHING in this nation: a corporate duopoly.
But By GOD, the democratic representatives will be the ones (and their families) getting filthy rich off of K Street. :eyes:

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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. You either need therapy or you are very young. Everyone who doesn't think exactly
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 12:04 AM by Honeycombe8
like you is not your enemy.

The world is not your enemy.

Obama is not your enemy if he doesn't do what you tell him to do.

I am not your enemy.

We are all on the same side. Reform has been attempted for decades. This is the closest we've ever gotten. We're all anxious about it. None of us is getting what we want.

But we are all on teh same side. We are not enemies. Even Sullivan.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. I don't appreciate your personal attacks. We are investing in the wrong entity:
The Insurance Companies.

If you are too blind to SEE that this is a continuation of "gutting the middle class" in favor of the upper 1% and large corporations, then continue to believe - there's no reaching you through the ether of "a beautiful speech" that conveys nothing for working Americans.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Oh come on. Some people see the light and change.
I have had family members switch to being Dems or indies no longer voting Repub because of Bush.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. It's not GOP but conservative corporatists, both parties, that is trashing
our democratic republic.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Okay, I see there is not getting through to you
Have a good night.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Good god, there is no pleasing you. How do you make it through life
with so much hate running through your blood? I would ordinarily ask most of the idiotic right wing, but I think it would apply to you as well.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. It's called REALISM. When you wake up tomorrow and read through
"the speech" you will see that President Obama is going to sign a bill that will make the already ultra-rich insurance companies, even more bloody richer.

I'm a realist. Obama through two continuing occupations, renditions, drone summary executions, and now MORE "freebies" to the Insurance Corporations is NOT what I would call "a man of the people" but, instead, is serving Wall Street and The Pentagon.

However, it was a very eloquent speech.

Let's see what actually gets done as far as legislation?

Try not to be too disappointed when time proves my position correct. :hi:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-09-09 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Andrew Sullivan has come a long way
since the bush+cheney destruction made him see the Light!

"8.38 pm. Obama takes on Palin hard: "It is a lie, plain and simple." Of course it is. Palin said it."

I don't know what he was refering to but it's priceless.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-09-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. The death panel stories is what that comment referred to. Yeah, that was a funny,
by Sullivan.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Ah, yes, those..I
missed most of the speech and came back after it was all over..only to find many joe wilson threads.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
15. "He has put his presidency on the line for this. And that is a hard thing to do."

Yes he has.


And Obama deserves for us to have his back on this.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Yes. I'm struggling with that, since I'm disappointed it looks like no public option.
I feel betrayed. I'm also anxious about what else might be in the bill.

This is a very emotional issue to everyone.

Still....he's on it. He's gone farther than anyone else ever has with it. I guess he'll get whatever he can, in the bill.

I support him, though. Damn, he's smart. I'm just glad we have a smart guy in the W.H. to deal with this. This is complicated stuff.
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