Now that the Public Option is not dead, the outrage of the day is that it'll take 4 years

[Uzybone]

because 4 years is too long in a crisis. Note that many of those who are now whining that it'll take 4 years were praising Bill Moyers when he said it is ok if we fail totally and have to come back in 20 years for single payer. The hypocrisy knows no bounds.

[msallied]

1. Government time is like geology. lol I wouldn't expect anything sooner, really.

[ShortnFiery]

2. If you read between the lines, The Public Option is not only dead ...

it's AB-SO-FUCKING-LUTELY DEAD. :(

[moondust]

24. "Reading between the lines" also gets you to death panels.

And pulling the plug on grandma.

And government takeover of health care.

And a bunch of other crazy stuff.

[Control-Z]

25. I would bet money that

there will be a public option. Maybe not one that meets with your approval. Maybe one that will take 4 years to fully implement. But the president sounded pretty serious tonight and I believe he is going to try to accomplish exactly what he said.

[ShortnFiery]

41. Hope springs eternal.

It's dead in the water, we haven't been told .... BUT the Public Option is dead. :(

[dionysus]

43. you have chosen that you will be pissed off and bitter no matter what happens. it's funny actually.

and even in the future, when the public otion is implemented, you'll claim it isn't a real public option.

it's almost like you don't want them to pass a public option, just so you can be pissed some more.

:rofl:

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. I'm still crossing my fingers that the 4 years thing is not set in stone and is a very

extreme long-term estimate on when the plan would be implemented. Even so, some parts of the plan would set in right away, so people wouldn't be in the exact same fix they are in now. There would be some help available to them.

[Uzybone]

6. it is not set in stone, no bill has been signed

and like you said the assists for the poor and uninsured will kick in right away.

[Honeycombe8]

4. Don't give up HOPE. Maybe the public option IS dead, after all! nt

[dionysus]

49. I get the feeling some here wish that is so, just so they could do a "i told you so" routine and

have a fit, talk about primary challenging obama, and so forth.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CoffeeCat]

7. I just want to read the legislation after it is signed!

All of this means nothing.

This is not about Obama.

This is about what passes.

Obama didn't mandate that a bill had to have a public option in it. So, as it has been since the onset of this
process, it's up to Congress to come up with a bill.

So, let's see it all ready.

I really don't care about any of the personalities involved. I don't care about speeches. I don't
care about what group wants this and what group is mad or upset or happy or hopeful.

That's noise.

Let's see the damn bill and get on with our lives. Then we'll truly know how we stand. We'll know if corporate interests won, or if
we have meaningful healthcare reform.

Until then, it's just noise, noise, noise.

[ej510]

9. The public option isn't a lock, and it never was. The fact that everyone won't have the option to

buy into the public option makes this bill questionable.

[CoffeeCat]

14. Do we know for sure that this bill won't have the public option???

Did I miss something?

I know the President didn't mandate that the bill have a public option in it...but I thought
the process was still underway.

I thought there was still some hope of a public option.

[Egnever]

20. That definitely needs to be clarified

it will likely be what is taken away from the speach.

[Egnever]

18. Well said

it is still very cloudy, all the crystal ball stuff right now is very distracting from the actual process.

[Cha]

8. Professional

Whiners.

[avaistheone1]

10. There professionals all right.

How about those 100,000 people who will die waiting for Obama's plan to get started, and the millions who will go into medical bankruptcy as a result of not having insurance or inadequate insurance, while they wait years for some kind of relief. THEY ARE THE REAL PROFESSIONAL WHINERS.

:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

46. your favorite team loses? obama's fault

your dog gets loose and gets hit by a car? obama's fault
spilled coffee on your shirt? obama's fault.
the sun sets at night? obama's fault
and on and on and on it goes...

[4lbs]

12. So, if we just don't pass healthcare reform at all because it's not single-payer, it will be at

least a decade or even two decades before such radical reform passes.

How many people would die then, because people were so stubborn about waiting a decade or more for single-payer?

[rockymountaindem]

35. Did you miss the part about giving government insurance to people who need catastrophic

coverage during the interim?

[depakid]

55. High deductible so called "catastrophic" insurance

aimed at paying hospitals and providers while sill bankrupting patients. Basically, the Enzi bill without federal preemption of state insurance mandates.

In other words, what Families USA (hardly a "liberal" institution) called junk insurance.

[dionysus]

44. ah so, blood is on obama's hands... yes, the people cha are talking about fill their pampers daily.

nothing he ever does will be good enough. you should know, you're one of them.

[Cha]

56. So yeah, blame President Obama

because you don't have a fucking clue.

[Number23]

13. Rec'd. NOTHING is ever good enough. NOTHING is ever right. NOTHING is ever enough.

[ShortnFiery]

15. Better to have "nothing" than GIFT 900 Billion to the already bloated Insurance Industry.

:shrug:

[quaker bill]

34. It is not a gift

it comes with a great deal of regulation and the end of the sub-prime insurance market. The exhange works because there is a fixed package of minimum benefits that will toss the low premium, high deductible, high co-pay plans over the rail.

The profit is not in collecting premiums, the profit is in not paying claims. Many of the usual excuses for not paying are about to be removed. This does not just impact the new 90B a year for the uninsured, but also the 1,000+B a year the insured toss into the process.

[CoffeeCat]

17. That sounds like an abusive parent...

Come on. We wanted single payer. That didn't happen. Ok, a public option doesn't solve
all problems, but at least it's some reform.

Now, we're being told that the public option might not happen.

Who in the hell would be happy about that?

Barack Obama campaigned on meaningful healthcare reform. He talked about it incessantly. So now, when it appears
that it may not happen--the people who voted for him and supported him---are dysfunctional, spoiled babies who do nothing
but complain about nothing being good enough. Is that how it is?

Geez, that takes balls to say that to people who could be getting the shaft!

[treestar]

36. Yes. It is not going to be easy.

That has always been known.

[girl gone mad]

33. Nothing is ever good enough for whom?

If you mean to say that no amount of compromise is ever good enough for the centrists, you would be correct.

[and-justice-for-all]

16. Who said the Public Option is dead?

I watched the entire speech and I did not get that message from it.

[TheKentuckian]

21. Nobody. They are "reading between the lines" aka pulling shit out of their asses

Ya see Obama failed to stand on the podium, pull down his britches, and tell Congress that they could suck his cock if the public option isn't in the bill. Even if he (stupidly) threatened a veto there would still be something "between the lines".

[and-justice-for-all]

22. And I worry about the misinformation from the M$M..

Ugh.. :eyes:

[treestar]

37. It is getting a bit suspicious

For instance, when they talk about their personal situation as if the country should revolve around that. Who is that selfish normally? Right wingers. If they want to disrupt by pretending to be "progressive" they might well naturally project their own self centeredness, and their feeling that a President is all powerful - the "decider" who should "lead" and get everything they want him to get for them.

[Sebastian Doyle]

26. Depends on your definition of "dead"

If 5% of the population might be eligible for it, maybe 5 years from now, does that fit your definition of a "robust public option that can compete with corporate insurance". Especially when the other 95% will be forced to buy that corporate insurance.

That doesn't sound like Dr. Dean's public option at all. And that was the one I support.

[and-justice-for-all]

28. We will have to wait and see the actual bill...

but I still am not getting that(Public Option is Dead)from the speech.

[Sebastian Doyle]

30. I don't see how a true public option, open to all, can coexist with a corporatist mandate

The two are in direct contradiction with each other. I seem to recall "choices" being a big part of Obama's original talking points on this, but if something is mandatory, then by definition it is not a choice.

[and-justice-for-all]

31. Ok, this is what I see coming...

Some want a mandate, fine, so there better be a Public Option or it will not be signed by Obama.

They want a mandate, we want a public option. Fine, require me to have insurance I can afford.

[dionysus]

45. the people who will never be satisfied are saying it on this thread right now.

[brentspeak]

19. "Many of those who are now whining...were praising Bill Moyers..."

You have list matching those who don't like Obama's 4-year stall-plan with those who even aware that Bill Moyers said something of the sort of whatever it is you claim he said? You must have awesome built-in database call-up ability. The Human Spreadsheet.

[depakid]

29. How about chilling

A lot of us have read Bill Moyers too. My take -for whatever it's worth is we need to support President Obama vis a vis the lunatics (is there any other name for them) yet on the other hand, there's no reason for any of us to sign our names onto bad public policy.

Barack Obama and his cadre- corrupt congress folks- OK, that's their deal.

The progressive caucus will have no regrets about standing up -though we all might if we don't.

DC messes up the best of us- let's be the coolest and stand up to DC -and K Street and help in whatever ways we can to see that real- honest and actual health reform gets done

[BlooInBloo]

23. (shrug) DU started as a protest site. That's about all many here know how to do...

When it's a republican, they protest bad things.

When it's a Democrat, they protest not enough good things.

Either way, they protest.

[depakid]

27. Errr from what I heard- and from what's in the bill(s) that Obama seemed to endorse

It's not an option for the vast majority of people. Even in 2013.

How does Rachel do it?

If my take is wrong, talk me down.

[rucky]

32. Um, no. The outrage is that is seems private insurance is the center

of the plan, when our expectation was that we'd have the choice to bypass the private sector completely.

[joeycola]

38. The public option was like a rotten bone tossed out to appease

the crowd. Its dead.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

39. Exhibit A of why appeasing moderates makes more sense than appeasing liberals.

There is no appeasing liberals, so you might as well make SOMEONE happy.

[dionysus]

47. hey man, not fair. not all liberals are constantly pissy like that.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

48. Of course not. I myself am not.

But look around us. Can you tell me that we're the majority of liberals? I don't think so.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

40. Why SHOULD it take 4 years when Medicare was set up in one?

It's just a simple question? Why not 1 year, why not 2 years ? 4 Seems overly long in my opinion. It should be up and running BEFORE the next Presidential election so that it is a fait accompli.

[TheKentuckian]

42. $$$$ is why

The wait is almost totally an accounting method and is certainly nothing new. All the bills, even HR 676 have this ramp up.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

50. Smaller impact on the budget.

Phasing it in over 4 years reduces the sticker shock. That's how you get a $900 billion plan instead of one that's well over a trillion dollars.

[MrMickeysMom]

52. And I suppose that's why it's figured to cost 900B over the next 10 years...

Whenever Medicare phases in new payment systems, as they did in the early 80's and mid 90's to certain care reimbursement, they phased prospective payment in at 25% over the course of 4 years, and this was in the days when those having to deal with new reimbursement and documentation were also getting computerization in those care areas. We're being very optimistic with the price tag.

I think there is going to be a larger portion of the pie needing health care over that time, and we'll be well in the trillion zone, due to the age and number of folks with NO COVERAGE!

With that in mind, shouldn't we be following Max Baucus very closely with phone calls and letters?

[polichick]

51. You're still pretending that the prez said anyone could buy into the public option...

It's not "dead" ~ if the prez gets his way, it'll only be offered to a fraction of the population, making it irrelevant as a means to create competition.

GET IT YET?

[MrMickeysMom]

53. How big do you think that fraction is gonna grow?

I say, way bigger.

[polichick]

57. If they "handcuff it" - as Sen. McCaskill said they will (on Morning Joe)...

...it won't grow.

But the Blue Dogs will probably try to get rid of it altogether.

[MrMickeysMom]

59. I love all these metaphors...

So, you're thinking we'll completely dissolve the public option?

If this is what to expect, then the American people are handcuffed to having to buy-in to insurance corporations.

Ah... what's the word I'm searching for???

[depakid]

54. It's apparently dead as an option for anyone except the chronically unisurable

I guess some apologists think that's just fine.

[Zoeisright]

58. Tell that to the families of the 80,000 Americans who will DIE in those

four years because they don't have medical insurance.

If you thought that 9/11 was a crisis, with 3,000 people dead, what do you call an average year when 20,000 Americans die of treatable illnesses??

Good God.