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Here Is An Objective Look At Just What's In The Plan Outlined By The President Last Night!

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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 06:17 PM
Original message
Here Is An Objective Look At Just What's In The Plan Outlined By The President Last Night!


To Reform HEalth INSURANCE NOT HEalth CARE...

So put the "KoolAid" back in the refrigerator and get a grip on The FACTS!


http://www.apj.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=vie...

What Obama Actually Said About Health
Written by Michael Collins
Thursday, 10 September 2009
"Even if everything worked perfectly for the uninsured, the president said, "This exchange will take effect in four years, which will give us time to do it right." If that's the criterion, do it right, it will take a lot longer than four more years before the uninsured benefit."

Michael Collins takes a look at President Obama's high-voltage health insurance reform speech last night.
1965 - President Lyndon Johnson signs Medicare bill while President Harry Truman looks on. Truman signed up for Medicare right away.
1965: President Lyndon B. Johnson signs Medicare bill while President Harry S. Truman looks on. Truman signed up for Medicare right away. Image credit

September 10, 2009 – Washington, DC (The Money Party) – President Obama closed his address to the joint session of Congress by scolding those who have raised the absurd charges regarding his health care initiative. It was well timed and diverted attention from fundamental flaws in his proposal.

This article examines the Obama plan as outlined in his speech. His goals were clear and the speech was well structured. The heart of the address provides the type of information necessary to judge the merits of the plan as presented.

Obama got serious when he said, "The plan I'm announcing tonight would meet three basic goals:

"It will provide more security and stability to those who have health insurance.

"It will provide insurance to those who don't.

"And it will slow the growth of health care costs for our families, our businesses, and our government." Pres. Barack Obama, Sept. 9

Cost and availability are the core issues in health care today. They subsume all others. What's missing here? Instead of universal coverage, the uninsured get "insurance," most likely private insurance, if they can afford it. Instead of beating back prices or bold initiatives to reduce them, we're hearing "slow the growth." Health care costs are unaffordable to many already. The promise here seems to be that they'll still be unaffordable, just less so.

"Bending the curve" may happen but it fails to address the key problem -- people can't afford insurance rates and medical bills. As a result they get sick more, suffer more, and die before their time.

"Here are the details that every American needs to know about this plan"

Obama detailed the impact of his plan on two distinct groups, those currently with insurance and those without. This is a key distinction since the public option, for example, is available to only those without insurance.


http://www.apj.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=vie...

...The health care "exchange" that was part of Obama's campaign proposal is not available to those with insurance: :think:

"But an additional step we can take to keep insurance companies honest is by making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange. Let me be clear – it would only be an option for those who don't have insurance." Sept. 9

We're left to assume that "keeping the "insurance companies honest" is only a benefit saved for those citizens who are uninsured.



...What if you don't have a job? What if you have a job but can't afford the prices on the "exchange?" This was not addressed. :think:

The president elaborated his argument for the "exchange:"

"Insurance companies will have an incentive to participate in this exchange because it lets them compete for millions of new customers." Sept. 9

Who are the members of this group that the insurance companies will so desire? They're the uninsured, the people who get sicker more frequently and have great medical needs because they're uninsured. Is that an appealing market for companies who are in the business of excluding sick people? Is there some major group of very healthy uninsured ready to balance out the generally poor, low income uninsured?

To further bolster the insurance "exchange," Obama offered this argument: :think:

"As one big group, these customers will have greater leverage to bargain with the insurance companies for better prices and quality coverage. This is how large companies and government employees get affordable insurance." Sept. 9

No it isn't. The largest companies have "self funded" health insurance plans. They don't buy insurance coverage from the Blue Crosses of the world. They set up a fund for benefits that pays for employee health care. They hire out the administration of benefits to private insurance companies who issue checks and reimbursements but that money is from large companies. The entire "exchange" argument is based on a factual error. Since the assumption of competition underlies the "exchange," the plan crumbles for those without insurance.



http://www.apj.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=vie... Just cool it and :think:

So... :think: a little bit about the CONTENT of the speech ... Get over the soaring oratory.... It IS ALL About The CONTENT!
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Health CARE REform IS ALL ABOUT THE CONTENT of The Legislation!
The President gave a GREAT speech but WHAT did he say? :think:
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. I resist kicking this post but, like your other one, it is monumentally full of FAIL...
Your links don't even work. :eyes:

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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Here I s The Entire Story... Please Read It And Wake UP!
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 08:10 PM by proud patriot

What Obama Actually Said About Health Reform Print E-mail
Written by Michael Collins
Thursday, 10 September 2009
"Even if everything worked perfectly for the uninsured, the president said, "This exchange will take effect in four years, which will give us time to do
(edited for copyright purposes-proud patriot Moderator Democratic Underground)

it right." If that's the criterion, do it right, it will take a lot longer than four more years before the uninsured benefit."

Michael Collins takes a look at President Obama's high-voltage health insurance reform speech last night.
1965 - President Lyndon Johnson signs Medicare bill while President Harry Truman looks on. Truman signed up for Medicare right away.
1965: President Lyndon B. Johnson signs Medicare bill while President Harry S. Truman looks on. Truman signed up for Medicare right away. Image credit

September 10, 2009 – Washington, DC (The Money Party) – President Obama closed his address to the joint session of Congress by scolding those who have raised the absurd charges regarding his health care initiative. It was well timed and diverted attention from fundamental flaws in his proposal.

This article examines the Obama plan as outlined in his speech. His goals were clear and the speech was well structured. The heart of the address provides the type of information necessary to judge the merits of the plan as presented.

Obama got serious when he said, "The plan I'm announcing tonight would meet three basic goals:

"It will provide more security and stability to those who have health insurance.

"It will provide insurance to those who don't.

"And it will slow the growth of health care costs for our families, our businesses, and our government." Pres. Barack Obama, Sept. 9

Cost and availability are the core issues in health care today. They subsume all others. What's missing here? Instead of universal coverage, the uninsured get "insurance," most likely private insurance, if they can afford it. Instead of beating back prices or bold initiatives to reduce them, we're hearing "slow the growth." Health care costs are unaffordable to many already. The promise here seems to be that they'll still be unaffordable, just less so.

"Bending the curve" may happen but it fails to address the key problem -- people can't afford insurance rates and medical bills. As a result they get sick more, suffer more, and die before their time.

"Here are the details that every American needs to know about this plan"

Obama detailed the impact of his plan on two distinct groups, those currently with insurance and those without. This is a key distinction since the public option, for example, is available to only those without insurance.

(snip)

Michael Collins is a writer who focuses on clean elections and voting rights. He is the publisher of the web site The Money Party. His Scoop Independent News articles can be found here.
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MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. We don't have what LBJ had as a Congress, Dems, or fewer lobbyists. Care reform will take years, but
primary care, community hospitals, lots of stuff, being considered along with the public option.
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. The Whole Thing Is A Sellout To Corp Insurance Industry!
The Prezzzz.. Sold out to Billy Tauzin for BIG Pharma a couple of months ago!
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Sure IS! Amazing The Ignorance Of TRUTH Around Here!
:think: :puke:
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MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Not agreeing with you, what is possible, doesn't mean ignorance. Careful with assumptions.
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namahage Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. You enjoy talking to yourself? n/t
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hileeopnyn8d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Must have
lost a sock in the dryer?
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Why are you agreeing with your own post?
:rofl:
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. ShamelessKick AND Because While The KA Drinkers May Disagree For Now... I Will Be Vindicated As...
HAving been correct in my analysis in the end... That's WHY! :)
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. The amount of ignorance (not to mention nuttiness) that you've deposited
in various threads, is mountainous.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. .
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 08:13 PM by salguine
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
8. Neoliberal "ins. reform"
Newly released records of visits to the Obama White House by health care executives provide some important new details not included in the White House’s July 22 letter sent to CREW on the eve of the President’s health care press conference. The records identify the names of the individuals the visitors were meeting with, and include information about scheduled appointments that apparently never took place. The new records include information from WAVES records, which show the scheduled dates of appointments, as well as ACR records, which show when the visitor actually entered the White House complex. Details from the new records are outlined below.

Bill Tauzin (President and CEO, Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America):
• March 5 (meeting with president)
• May 19 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)
• June 2 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)
• June 24 (meeting with Clare Gallagher)
• July 7 (meeting with Jim Messina)

Karen Ignagni (President and CEO, America’s Health Insurance Plans):
• March 5 (meeting with president)
• March 6 (meetings with Elizabeth Bafford and Larry Summers)
• March 11 (meeting with Jennifer Cannistra)
• June 30 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)
• July 24 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

Richard Umdenstock (President and CEO, American Hospital Ass’n.):
• February 4 (meeting with Tina Tchen)
• February 23 (meeting with president)
• March 5 (meeting with president)
• March 25 (meeting with Jennifer Cannistra)
• March 30 (meeting with Ezekiel Emanuel)
• April 6 (meeting with Tina Tchen)
• May 22 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

J. James Rohack (President-elect, American Medical Ass’n.):
• March 25 (meeting with Ezekiel Emanuel)
• June 22 (meeting with president)
• June 24 (meetings with Clare Gallagher and president)

William Weldon (Chairman and CEO, Johnson & Johnson):
• May 12 (meeting with president)

Jeffrey B. Kindler (Chairman and CEO, Pfizer Inc.):
• March 5 (meeting with president)

• May 6 (meetings with Sarah Fenn and Elizabeth Bafford)
• June 2 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

Stephen J. Hemsley (President, CEO, Director, UnitedHealth Group, Inc.):
• May 15 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)
• May 22 (meeting with Peter Orszag)
• July 14 (meeting with Aneesh Chopra)

Angela Braly (President, CEO, Director, WellPoint, Inc.):
• February 13 (meeting with president)

George Halvorson (Chairman and CEO, Kaiser Foundation Health Plan):
• March 27 (meeting with Keith Fontenot)
• June 5 (meeting with Peter Orszag)
• July 23 (meeting with Kathleen Sibelius)
• July 24 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

Jay Gellert (President and CEO, Health Net, Inc.):
• February 10 (meeting with Tina Tchen)
• March 11 (meeting with Jennifer Cannistra)
• March 20 (meeting with Matt Flavin)
• July 24 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

Thomas Priselac (President and CEO, Cedars-Sinai Health System):
• April 3 (meeting with Ezekiel Emanuel)

Richard Clark (Chairman, President and CEO, Merck):
• March 24 (meeting with Ezekiel Emanuel)

Wayne T. Smith (Chairman, President and CEO, Community Health Systems):
• June 4 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

Rick Smith (Sr. Vice President, Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America):
• May 19 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)
• June 2 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)
• July 7 (meeting with Jim Messina)
• July 24 (meeting with Sarah Fenn)

http://www.citizensforethics.org/files/20090904%20-%20Summary%20of%20Health%20Care%20Visits.pdf

The plan was hammered out a while ago. August was the month of distraction, getting everyone in a tizzy, obama comes out in Sept and plays good cop with an eloquent speech, as long as you're willing to settle for anything with hefty dose of hope for future "incremental changes". What emerges will be what was decided at the white house among the real players in the list above. No public option or something called a public option that will die a quick death and the real reason for all this staged drama- mandates and another massive transfer of wealth to the top in the form of subsidies which in reality are additional taxpayer funded extortion payments added to co-pays, deductibles and premiums.
All this to keep an unneeded, wasteful and bloated middleman that adds nothing of value to health care.

The system is still class based with the shitty care if any at all offered to the working poor. At best 17 million left uninsured. Tens of thousands of people will die for lack of access to healthcare paying the highest price of all so the comfy middle class and above can keep their private employee and individual ins. plans.

Except we have a new name for folks unable to pay the mandated high costs for the privileged of supporting massive and wasteful overhead and excessive profit- Deadbeats.


The idea that government will regulate insurance companies because they pass a law would be laughable if it the idea wasn't so ignorant of how it really works in washington and our regulatory agencies. How many more consumer agencies are we going to need to inadequately defend the working class from the abuse ins. companies will heap on them because the regulators and those in charge of bringing the abusers to justice are health ins. lobbyists with deep pockets.

The middle of the road corporate controlled democrats brought us such neoliberal policies as Nafta, Deregulation and welfare reform. And now the decimated working class and working poor are supposed to continue to suffer further both financially and physically and many will pay with their lives so that the comfy middle class can get a premium rate cut and a bit of faux reform.

And for the folks who just can't afford to hold up a corrupt system that benefits the wealthier in our society we have a special name for you. In keeping with the neoliberal motto of "blame the victim" you will now be relegated to the fringes of society where the parasites dwell as the true leaches you are- Insurance Deadbeats


I think if we are going to ration death we should do it fairly and spread the consequences of half assed bullshit reform among those who advocate for it. A national lottery to pick the folks this bill will leave behind. If you have already spent a good portion of your lives uninsured you don't have to put your name in you paid your dues to society and your wealthier counterparts.

As with the draft it won't be until the comfortable and well off experience the horror those of us at the bottom have for the last 30 years that things will change.

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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. The "Artiste" Strikes Back! NOW That's WHAT I'm Talk'n "bout! BEAUTIFUL ADDITION!
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. A Must Read For The KA Drinkers!
:)
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-12-09 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. "who are the members of this group that the insurance
Edited on Sat Sep-12-09 10:13 PM by Fire1
companies will so desire?" Yeah, they are the uninsured and not all of them have pre-existing conditions. The majority in this group will range in age from 25 to 49, as recent statistical reports would have it. The invincible ones unless of course "they get hit by a bus." Far as I can tell, most of what you've stated here is pure speculation and hardly "objective."
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. You Just "Made" My Case... The Uninsured Are Healthy , Low Users Of Health Care, LOW Cost And WILL..
Be the ones that are FORCED INTO the Insurance industry system adding a huge chunk of cash to their collective bottom line... because as you say that unless they get hit by a truck... age 25 -49 don't use much health care... esp males! ( Who to date have chosen NOT to buy HIGH COST LOW Benefit Health Insurance! Because it iis a lousy overpriced product! MANDATED = Revenue GIFT to the INSurance Industry... The "AUTHORS" of this piece of crap! No speculation just logical deduction!
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. On the contrary. You stated, "the ones who get sicker more
frequently because they're uninsured." I didn't make your case. You contradicted yourself.
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Nooo, You Completely MISUnderstood WHAT I said!
Those who would enter Medicare as younger <65 y/o enrollees would bring stability to the Fiscal picture of medicare because they are in the aggregate LOW users of health care services who would be paying into the program... rather than having the current program which has concentrated risk secondary to the much older population of people age 65 and older. Read please...
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. The Elderly Cohort Of Which The Population Of Medicare Beneficiaries is Comprised Of...
IS by definition proportionately a greater user of health care resources than those who are less than 65 years of age.. What is it about that concept that you find difficult to comprehend? :think:
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-13-09 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. so somebody shot your pony, too?
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
22. Helpful hint: If you want your post to be taken remotely seriously,
stop dragging out flamebait like "Kool-Aid".

Unrec.
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. The TRUTH IS INDEED DISTURBING to those who Have Seen Their "KoolAid" Turn SOUR!
:)
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Baltoman991 Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Actually, the only
thing sour is your attitude towards Obama.

Who are you to tell me what he really meant? I watched and listened for myself. I don't need to come here for you to say "here's what he's really saying". If I wanted that I'd just not bother watching when he's on and let you or the fucked up media report to me.

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