lwcon
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:34 PM
Original message |
Progressives on "public option": don't ask, don't tell |
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With all this gnashing of teeth for Democrats to pass "a" or "the" public option, is anyone asking what sort of "public option" is liable to be passed into law?
Will it be "robust" or "strong" as the once commonly pre-pended adjectives suggested?
Why is President Obama saying that fewer than 5% of Americans will get it? What kind of competition to health insurers would such a plan provide? Will citizens be allowed to choose a public plan as an alternative to the one their employer provides? Will the plan be a good value, with coverage commensurate with backwards nations like Canada and the United Kingdom, who don't offer the benefits of a "uniquely American plan"?
Is our role to demand good policy, or to get on board the bandwagon?
The big bloggers and activist groups have, for months, urged us to whip up support for "public option." But -- if I may ask -- what sort of "public option" are we being asked to whip for? The incuriosity about that is deafening.
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ProSense
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:43 PM
Response to Original message |
lwcon
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
2. You know as well as I do that several bills are in committee |
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Your answer to all questions is to trust Obama and Congressional Democrats. Mine is to challenge and be skeptical of them.
Do you have good answers to my questions, rather than throwing a bunch of links at me?
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ProSense
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
3. "Do you have good answers to my questions" Yes, read and |
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when something changes, read some more.
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lwcon
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
4. Oh, great expert, why not set me straight with pithy answers |
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About the great plan we're going to get? Could it be that you're trying to dodge the questions?
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ProSense
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
6. Not my job. Do your own research. n/t |
lwcon
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
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Your job is to tell Obama critics to STFU.
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ProSense
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
8. "Your job is to tell Obama critics to STFU" No, I said read. In fact, read out loud. n/t |
lwcon
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
10. Yes, that's what you said |
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But your intent in providing a bunch of links is to dodge the questions. If you're so expert on the topic, and the answers are so pleasing, why not answer the direct questions?
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ProSense
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
11. The links are provided for you to do research. You too can become an expert if all it takes is |
lwcon
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Mon Sep-14-09 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
13. I'm expert enough to know |
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That "public option" is a vague term that has wildly mutated since its inception, one that guileless and truthy "progressives" have used to rationalize away worrisome developments in the Democrats' plans. Some reading for you, since you're such a fan of same: http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/07/20/bait-and-switch-how-the-“public-option”-was-sold/ http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/29988909/sick_and_wrong
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ProSense
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Mon Sep-14-09 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
14. "Some reading for you" Read them. |
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both full of distortion and misinformation. Maybe instead of reading BS opinions, you could read the actual bills, and maybe, just maybe, you wouldn't have so many questions that are easily cleared up by the contents.
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lwcon
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Mon Sep-14-09 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
15. Again, you demur on "easily clear[ing] up" the questions |
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Instead assigning a reading list. No way could it be that you don't have clear, honest, substantive answers -- right?
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SpartanDem
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:51 PM
Response to Original message |
5. He didn't say 5% will get it |
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Edited on Mon Sep-14-09 10:52 PM by SpartanDem
He said: "In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up."
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lwcon
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
9. And he raises that because he thinks that's a positive result |
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His position is very clear that he's trying to protect our current private-insurance orthodoxy.
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SpartanDem
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Mon Sep-14-09 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
16. I don't see it that way |
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I think more just downplaying the most controversial part of the bill.
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lwcon
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Tue Sep-15-09 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #16 |
Jim Sagle
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Mon Sep-14-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message |
12. You MUST be a racist! |
CoffeeCat
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Tue Sep-15-09 08:06 AM
Response to Original message |
18. You are asking incredibly important questions... |
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A public option with no real reform--would be a complete disaster.
I am proceeding with open-minded scepticism. Single payer was never on the table, because our politicians are owned by the insurance industry. The insurance industry does not want a REAL public option. They want a watered-down, no-reform joke that leaves them hauling in the cash.
Will they get that?
I'd say the odds are in their favor--especially since they have steered the entire process so far.
You ask the most important question of our current healthcare debate. What will the public option look like and will it be true reform?????
We must demand that it is. We must continue to ask this question, and to let our elected officials know that we are watching them.
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lwcon
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Tue Sep-15-09 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
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... to ask such a question on DU is to get instantly un-rec'ed.
It's like dealing with Republicans (and more than a few Dems) during the Iraq War run-up. There was a bandwagon, and you were expected to jump on it. Questioning was unpatriotic.
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CoffeeCat
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Tue Sep-15-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
23. Un'recs for posts like that...are probably trolls or DLCers... |
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...or fans of the corporatists who want to toe the current corrupt status quo.
I'm a big Obama fan. I was one of his precinct captains. But come on...any Democrat who isn't worried about what kind of public option will result--after the legislative meatgrinder does it's thing---must not care about this issue.
It's possible that we'll have a robust public option. It's possible that the public option will be totally meaningless and contain no real reform.
Who...in their right mind wouldn't be concerned about that right now? It's the central issue of this entire month.
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lwcon
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Tue Sep-15-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
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One of my biggest grievances with the "Obama movement" is how many people think that to support Obama is to support Obama blindly. He'll be a better president if he knows that his supporters are willing to rattle his cage as appropriate. Ditto for our Congressional majorities.
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paulk
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Tue Sep-15-09 08:31 AM
Response to Original message |
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hopefully we can have a real discussion on this over the next few months.
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quantass
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Tue Sep-15-09 08:40 AM
Response to Original message |
21. BTW why aren't Repubs happier since Progressives/Liberals aren't EVER getting what they want n/t |
lwcon
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Tue Sep-15-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
24. They understand how to push the Overton Window |
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If they admit that Dems aren't Socialist extremists, they lose momentum in demonizing us.
Dems, OTOH, are afraid of their own shadows, hence we get Obama dissing "liberal bleeding hearts" and "Chablis-drinking limousine liberals." It was considered a milestone that his speech last week mentioned liberals as if they weren't something dirty. Single-payer activists, naturally, are still to be shunned, however.
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Laelth
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Tue Sep-15-09 09:20 AM
Response to Original message |
22. Well said. Just any old "public option" will not do. |
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It needs to be "robust" in order to justify the damage that the individual mandate will do to the Democratic Party. Personally, I define "robust" to mean a plan that is projected to cover 50+ million Americans within five years--i.e. it need to be big enough to provide real competition that will drive down costs and "keep the insurance companies honest." I'd also like reimbursement rates tied to Medicare (Medicare +5%, as proposed in HR 3200), but that percentage is negotiable.
Without a "robust" public option, the President's plan is little more than a massive give-away to the health insurance cabal paid for, principally, by the struggling middle class.
:dem:
-Laelth
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lwcon
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Tue Sep-15-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
26. Thanks. It's truly stunning... |
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Edited on Tue Sep-15-09 05:06 PM by lwcon
How little conversation of this nature is happening on DU, Daily Kos, and the big blogs. Virtually not at all.
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