Obama on the public option: ‘I absolutely do not believe that it’s dead.’

[ProSense]

Obama on the public option: ‘I absolutely do not believe that it’s dead.’

...But today in an interview with Univision’s Al Punto — the first time a U.S. president has appeared on the show — Obama said that such declarations are premature:

“I absolutely do not believe that it’s dead,” Obama told Univision. “I think that it’s something that we can still include as part of a comprehensive reform effort.”

That defense may mark one of the most significant reactions Obama has had to date to the health bill unveiled by Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) this week, which eschews the public option in favor of nonprofit healthcare cooperatives.

When asked whether Republican votes are essential to passing a bill, Obama replied, “You know, I’d love to get Republican votes, but I don’t count on them. … I think, that the opposition has made a decision. They are just not going to support anything, for political reasons.”

[andym]

1. K&R nt.

[Parker CA]

2. Very nice! A solid endorsement of the PO! Also sounds like he's prepared to use reconciliation.

[Peacetrain]

11. Sounds that way to me...

[DrToast]

24. Obama was the one who demanded reconciliation be allowed for in the budget

Kent Conrad didn't want to include it, but Obama made sure he was on board.

[Parker CA]

26. I didn't know that. He's obviously ready to use it then. Beware, pubs, beware. nt.

[DrToast]

29. Yep, you have to prepare for reconciliation in the budget. It's not available automatically

Here's a column from March:

Take the Obama administration's current proposals to expand post-secondary education; reform the health care system, and take an initial market-based step to cut emissions of greenhouse gasses. These are Grown Up ideas that deserve to be studied seriously. If they are flawed, then other Grown Ups should offer serious alternatives. But if they have no serious alternatives, the Babies should not be stunned to learn that the Grown Ups are going ahead with their plans.

It's called "reconciliation," children. An arcane budgetary tool. It's not nice. But it gets things done.

And that is what the Grown Ups do.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/john-farrell/2009/03/18/obamas-budget-reconciliation-strategy-is-for-adults.html

[Parker CA]

31. "And that is what the Grown Ups do." LOVE it. What a great snippet. Thanks again, Dr!! nt.

[drm604]

3. K&R

He understands that bipartisanship is simply not achievable on this. I personally believe that he's understood that all along.

[SpartanDem]

4. Yet, tommorow the MSM will proclaim the exact opposite

they will some "experts" on saying that the only way that this will pass is without at PO. Of course, the experts declared it dead before the August recess and they said it was dead after the August recess and Obama was definately going it for sure durning the speech.

[Cha]

5. Thanks for this, PS ..."Political reasons"..money quote.

"When asked whether Republican votes are essential to passing a bill, Obama replied, “You know, I’d love to get Republican votes, but I don’t count on them. … I think, that the opposition has made a decision. They are just not going to support anything, for political reasons.”


Wonder how many saw Univision today? I can't get either link to work for my computer, PS.

[grantcart]

6. great quote and its on Univision -- Fox is behind Univision in national importance lol

[Oregone]

7. Doesn't this seem like backtracking from a definite to a maybe?

"I absolutely do not believe that it’s dead" implies that it may be, or that, it becoming dead is a possibility.

"we can still include as part of a comprehensive reform effort" implies that it also could not be there in something considered comprehensive. "Can" suggest its not a given.

Im not just trying to kick shit on your thread at all. But, it seems like something that would be more hopeful would be saying: "I will not sign a bill that doesn't include a public option"

[quantass]

8. +1000 nt

[Peacetrain]

10. And you are late also!!

[Peacetrain]

9. You are late!!

[Oregone]

14. Yeah, I try not to show up to circle jerks until they are over.

[ProSense]

23. It actually doesn't start until you show up. n/t

[ProSense]

12. "hopeful would be saying: 'I will not sign a bill that doesn't include a public option'" Implies

that he believes Congress is going to drop the public option.

It never ends. "I absolutely do not believe that it’s dead" means just that: the public option is alive and well.

[Oregone]

13. Hey, if it makes you feel better to spin it that way, fine

I dont know. While I always presumed it would be there, in some form or another (helpful or not to the overall situation), I don't perceive the comments as positive. At least neutral, but definitely not positive in context to the debate.

[ProSense]

15. So you were spinning negative? n/t

[Oregone]

17. No, Im just trying to be honest here

Ive seen VERY positive language from Obama on the PO. These comments don't seem to fit that mode because the PO remains a possibility, rather than a given in them. They do not seem decisive

[ProSense]

18. Honest? I honestly think your interpretation of Obama's comments is nonsensical. n/t

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

21. I think you're unhinged and simply pissed the public option is still alive and well. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

35. He cannot declare anything. His power is to attempt kill what he does not approve.

He can do a lot to encourage but a President has no actual power to make sure anything is in a bill.

[Baltoman991]

16. You know

what hypocrite means? You're the perfect one here.

To get on a poster for spinning something when you yourself are spinning what Obama said.

The public option is not dead. Barack Obama has said countless times it must be in any bill he signs.

But then you and your possee come along telling us "oh, if you read between the lines he's not really saying that". Sorry, reading between the lines is for the fucking pukes and the media.

[Oregone]

19. Im not saying "read between the lines"

Look at what he is actually saying in those quotes. The public option transitioned from a definite (in recent statements) to a possibility he wants (in these). The OP is claiming its positive...when it is at best neutral. Im not spinning shit here.

[Raine1967]

27. Actually -- That is spinning at it's very best. eom.

[Baltoman991]

33. You can call it

what you want, but in the end, it's still spinning.

Nowhere has he said it's only a possibility yet somehow you got that out of what he's saying and the only way to get to that conclusion is to spin what he's saying.

[jeanpalmer]

56. When I hear him say

"I do not believe that it’s dead," I picture a terminally ill patient lying on a hospital bed and they're about ready to pull the plug on him. He's not "alive and well."

And I think that's about where we are.

[DrToast]

25. It sounds pretty consistent with all his other statements on it. n/t

[truedelphi]

34. there's also the possiblility the public option could be sleeping

And sleeping and sleeping, for a long time to come.

Only to wake up someday when we no longer have the one Big Money Party.

[Doctor_J]

62. Amen to your last line. His pronouncement makes it sound like he's just along for the ride

"I am hoping, but will sign whatever piece of shit lands on my desk"

[Canuckistanian]

22. Well then, make it official

Announce a veto of a health care bill with no strong public option.

[Divine Discontent]

28. nice to hear, let's see if Congress doesn't capitulate as expected.

[dccrossman]

30. It about the Blue Dogs

No one ever really believed more than 1 or 2 repugs were possible, I don't think.

The Blue Dogs and the Conservative DINO Senators are a much larger problem as they could theoretically get in the way of even reconciliation.

[angee_is_mad]

32. K&R

thx.

[slipslidingaway]

36. "The Incredible Shrinking Public Health Insurance Option" ...

by Time For Change

"The story of how our previously promised public health insurance option shrunk from an option that was originally supposed to be offered to ALL Americans, to one in which “less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up”, as our President said in his September 9th address to Congress, is an incredible one. In this post I’ll discuss how that happened, possible reasons why “less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up”, and what it is likely to mean to the American people if we are unable to pressure Congress and our President to expand the public health insurance option to its original form..."


Details matter, less than 5% in a PO will not 'keep the insurance companies honest.'

[JeffR]

37. No doubt. A mere 4.995%, for example, would be totally insufficient.

[slipslidingaway]

38. If Obama quotes the CBO numbers, then it is just over 3%...or less than 5%...

but many people have declared that to be a strong and robust PO.

:shrug:

Forgot the link to the OP.

:silly:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6576051&mesg_id=6576051

[ProSense]

42. From your link: “Edwards Gets it Right”. That's absurd

Edwards' plan sucked, and it lacked a coverage for catastrophic care.

[slipslidingaway]

39. Link to the OP mentioned above...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6576051&mesg_id=6576051

snip>>

"...Why are only 5% of Americans expected to sign up for a public option?

Obama did not explain why only 5% of Americans would sign up for the plan. But in order to evaluate what he is offering we would do well to consider why only 5% of Americans would be expected to sign up for this plan that was previously promised to all Americans.

Ineligibility of large numbers of Americans

We know at least part of the reason why so few Americans would sign up for the plan. Obama made it clear in his speech that “It would only be an option for those who don’t have insurance.” But that can’t be the whole reason. There are 46 million Americans who currently have no health insurance. That’s about 15% of the U.S. population. Obama said in his speech that he expects less than 5% to sign up. The difference is 10% of the U.S. population – or 30 million Americans.

Why is it that those 30 million Americans won’t sign up? Could it be that the plan will not be available to many of those people? Will there be restrictions on eligibility in addition to the current possession of private health insurance? Or….

An inferior plan

Common sense tells us that a public health insurance option should be far less expensive and of much better quality (that is, better coverage and less denial of claims) than private for-profit health insurance. Much of the premiums collected by private health insurance companies go towards advertising and marketing costs, lobbying costs, profits for their investors, multimillion dollar salaries for their CEOs, and administrative and legislative costs aimed at enabling them to deny claims. After all that, how much is left to cover the health care claims of their customers? A government health insurance plan would not be burdened by all that. It would therefore have much more money available for health care – which is the purpose of health insurance. So why on earth would less than 15 million Americans out of 46 million who currently have no health insurance choose a private plan over a presumably superior quality public plan?

Well, the fact that government has the potential to offer an inexpensive and high quality plan doesn’t mean that it will. Perhaps the plan that Obama spoke of would be much more expensive and of worse quality than it could be. An analysis by Kip Sullivan of two bills that are currently under consideration in Congress supports that theory:


The “option” in both bills will be a balkanized program…. The “options” in both bills will be administered by private-sector corporations, some or all of which will be insurance companies. The “option” in neither bill resembles Medicare..."

[ProSense]

41. "Why are only 5% of Americans expected to sign up for a public option"

That's a quote based on the unemployed and uninsured. Reform will cover 15 million unisured (one-third of the uninsured or 5% of Americans) via the public option and more than 16 million via subsidies and credits:

Health Insurance Subsidies for Low-Income Workers Most Efficient Way to Expand Coverage, Says New Urban Institute Report

WASHINGTON - August 29 - A new Urban Institute report on workers without health insurance suggests that the most efficient way to increase coverage is to target subsidies toward low-income workers. The report offers the most detailed picture yet of the uninsured working population—now numbering more than 16 million—and compares the relative merits of two key vehicles for expanding coverage: tax credits or public programs. It also contains some surprises: though Hispanics are less likely to be covered overall, they accept employer offers of health insurance at the same rate as whites and African Americans.

more

You see, many of the unisured people are actually employed, and many are employed in small businesses. In fact, the CBO determined that the HELP bill will cover 97% of Americans.




Edited for clarity.

[slipslidingaway]

47. That is a quote from President Obama...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-to-a-Joint-Session-of-Congress-on-Health-Care/

"...Now, I have no interest in putting insurance companies out of business. They provide a legitimate service, and employ a lot of our friends and neighbors. I just want to hold them accountable. (Applause.) And the insurance reforms that I've already mentioned would do just that. But an additional step we can take to keep insurance companies honest is by making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange. (Applause.) Now, let me be clear. Let me be clear. It would only be an option for those who don't have insurance. No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up..."

[ProSense]

48. OK so he again quotes the CBO. How does that change what I posted? n/t

[slipslidingaway]

52. How does under 5% enrollment in the PO within the next ten years...

provide competition to the insurance companies.

That is the point of the post that I originally posted, the shrinking public option.

President Obama states that choice and competition are key, a guiding principle, but the choice and competition have been diminished. Will a PO that has less than 5% keep the insurance companies honest, personally I do not think so.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-t... /

"...So let me set the record straight here. My guiding principle is, and always has been, that consumers do better when there is choice and competition. That's how the market works. (Applause.) Unfortunately, in 34 states, 75 percent of the insurance market is controlled by five or fewer companies. In Alabama, almost 90 percent is controlled by just one company. And without competition, the price of insurance goes up and quality goes down. And it makes it easier for insurance companies to treat their customers badly -- by cherry-picking the healthiest individuals and trying to drop the sickest, by overcharging small businesses who have no leverage, and by jacking up rates..."

[ProSense]

54. It drives down cost by capping premiums. Also,

the 5 percent is an estimate. That number will change based on other factors.

Sec. 202. Exchange-eligible individuals and employers. Defines who is eligible for participation in the Health Insurance Exchange including employers and individuals. In year one, individuals not enrolled in other acceptable coverage are allowed into the Exchange as well as small employers with 10 or fewer employees. In year two, employers with 20 and fewer employees are allowed into the Exchange. In subsequent years, the Health Choices Commissioner is granted authority to expand employer participation as appropriate, with the goal of allowing all employers access to the Exchange.

<...>

Sec. 242. Affordable credit eligible individual. In order to receive affordability credits, individuals must have individual coverage through an Exchange-participating health benefits plan (though not through an employer purchasing coverage through the Exchange). Family and individual incomes must be below 400% of the federal poverty limit to access the affordability credits, and the individual generally must not be eligible for Medicaid. In general, employees who are offered employer coverage are ineligible for affordability credits within the Exchange. Beginning in year two, employees who meet an affordability test showing that coverage under their employer-provided plan would cost more than 11% of income, are eligible to obtain income-based affordability credits in the Exchange.

PDF

No matter how many times this is posted, it's continuously ignored.

[ProSense]

40. The public option has not changed.

Can you cite where it was outlined to cover more?

[slipslidingaway]

44. Link...Any American changes to Any American without insurance...

page 9...
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

"...(2) NEW AFFORDABLE, ACCESSIBLE HEALTH INSURANCE OPTIONS. The Obama-Biden plan will create a
National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals purchase new affordable health care options if they are uninsured or want new health insurance. Through the Exchange, any American will have the opportunity to enroll in the new public plan or an approved private plan, and income-based sliding scale tax credits will be provided for people and families who need it..."


http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-to-a-Joint-Session-of-Congress-on-Health-Care/

"...So let me set the record straight here. My guiding principle is, and always has been, that consumers do better when there is choice and competition. That's how the market works. (Applause.) Unfortunately, in 34 states, 75 percent of the insurance market is controlled by five or fewer companies. In Alabama, almost 90 percent is controlled by just one company. And without competition, the price of insurance goes up and quality goes down. And it makes it easier for insurance companies to treat their customers badly -- by cherry-picking the healthiest individuals and trying to drop the sickest, by overcharging small businesses who have no leverage, and by jacking up rates...

...Now, I have no interest in putting insurance companies out of business. They provide a legitimate service, and employ a lot of our friends and neighbors. I just want to hold them accountable. (Applause.) And the insurance reforms that I've already mentioned would do just that. But an additional step we can take to keep insurance companies honest is by making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange. (Applause.) Now, let me be clear. Let me be clear. It would only be an option for those who don't have insurance. No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up..."

[ProSense]

46. Did you miss this part

on purpose:

any American will have the opportunity to enroll in the new public plan or an approved private plan

[slipslidingaway]

49. No, I posted that part. Americans will not have the opportunity...

to enroll in the public plan or a private plan, the choice has been made and the opportunity determined by someone else.

Read this again...this definietly sounds like people would have a choice if they did not like their insurance plan and wanted to choose the public plan from the exchange.


"NEW AFFORDABLE, ACCESSIBLE HEALTH INSURANCE OPTIONS.

The Obama-Biden plan will create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals purchase new affordable health care options if they are uninsured or want new health insurance. Through the Exchange, any American will have the opportunity to enroll in the new public plan or an approved private plan..."

[ProSense]

51. What is it about "or" that you don't understand? n/t

[slipslidingaway]

53. Exactly my question to you, when someone says that Any American

will have the opportunity to enroll in plan A or plan B, to me that implies they have a choice.

Otherwise where is the opportunity???

How many times have we heard that people would have a choice!

The plan has changed from everyone having a choice and no mandates for adults to a limited number having a choice and mandates for everyone.

[ProSense]

55. The choice is A or B, not A and B. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

57. Exactly, any American can choose A or B during the campaign,

now the choice will be made for them.

Glad you finally realized how the plan changed.

[ProSense]

58. Keep thinking whatever makes you feel better. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

59. You interpretation makes No Sense, the plan changed. n/t

[truedelphi]

61. Thank you for pointing this out.

And remember there are Americans who will end up with all the nice choices they wanted DURING THE CAMAPIGN, and all the nice choices when it is set in stone.

They are the billionaire CEO's of the industry, that we are stuck with forever and forever, in appreciation, I guess, for them killing off our loved ones.

[slipslidingaway]

63. You're welcome, when you read the plan and compare what is being said today...

there are some major differences. If the PO is limited then the CEO's will be celebrating...just over a 3% enrollment according to the CBO number Obama quoted does not seem like real competition to me.

:(

[jenmito]

43. David Gregory tried to get Obama to say the public option is "gone" on MTP

and he refuted it there (on MTP), too.

[robo50]

45. I think, for people under 5 years old, Santa Claus isn't dead!

Can I be President now?

[branders seine]

50. What a courageous and inspirational statement of principled conviction.

Did he mean to leave off the "yet"?

[midnight armadillo]

64. LOL

The PO's not dead yet!


Clearly it's just waiting for some more mean words from the GOP to give up and die.

[yurbud]

60. "not dead" is setting the bar pretty low--I hope he's speaking softly and going to surprise the GOP

with a very big stick.