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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:03 PM
Original message
The New York Times can kiss my ass..
Edited on Thu Sep-24-09 02:09 PM by and-justice-for-all


Dear Healthcare-NOW! Supporter:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3907

FAIR published the following action alert.

The New York Times devoted some rare space on September 20 to discussing single-payer (or Medicare-for-all) health reform. The result? A one-sided account of why such a system couldnt work.

With a headline like "Medicare for All? 'Crazy,' 'Socialized' and Unlikely," readers probably had a sense of what the Times had in mind with the piece, which was the latest in a series titled "Prescriptions: Making Sense of the Healthcare Debate." Reporter Katharine Seelye wrote: "Extending Medicare to all has seemed like a good idea to manyexcept to those who call it 'socialized medicine.' Or crazy."

The Times seemed to want to express single-payer opposition in more gentle tones, explaining that the idea is, from the start, politically impractical: "Beyond a liberal base in the House, there is little support for expanding Medicare." And outside of Congress, wise minds seem to agree: "But even experts of diverse ideological views say expanding Medicare would be far more complicated and politically difficult than it might appear."

That led to the first claim: "For one thing, they say, Medicare reimburses doctors and hospitals at much lower rates than private insurance companies do. So, in general, healthcare providers oppose extending Medicare because they fear being driven out of business." It's not clear how serious this fear might be, since most doctors participate in the Medicare system without going bankrupt. Any attempts to reduce the skyrocketing costs of the healthcare system involve cuts of one form or another; most single-payer proposals discuss how to do this without shortchanging physicians. (U.S. doctors make, on average, almost three times the median physician salary in other wealthy industrial countriesEzra Klein, 4/19/06.)

It's worth noting that thousands of doctors have voiced support for a single-payer system (see, for example, Physicians for a National Health Programs letter to Barack Obama), in part because they believe they spend too much on the administrative costs associated with private insurance companies. A survey of physicians published in the Annals of Internal Medicine (4/1/08) found that 59 percent supported government-sponsored national health insurance.

Seelye also wrote that Medicare for all "would almost certainly mean a big tax increase on the middle class," before noting in parentheses: "Supporters argue that a tax increase would be somewhat neutralized by the elimination of premiums that people pay now to insurance companies." Actually, single-payer advocates argue that a payroll tax on businesses (many of which currently pay for private insurance for their employees) and a small income tax increase that would likely amount to less than what most citizens currently pay out of pocket could fund a single-payer program. By calling a "big tax increase" a near-certainty and treating the savings on insurance premiums as a claim made by advocates, the Times told readers which side it was on.

Seelye cited Stuart Altmanidentified as "a Brandeis economist who specializes in health care and who advised Barack Obama in his presidential campaign," but not as a director of a managed-care company that offers health insurance plans (WhoRunsGov.com)to make a similar point about potential tax increases, and then went to "the other end of the political spectrum" to quote Robert Moffit of the conservative Heritage Foundation: "I dont see popular support for it beyond liberals. It's a philosophical question: Do you want to give the government that kind of power?"

Of course, one might point out that public polling for years has demonstrated that support for single-payer is much broader than merely a liberal sliver of the population (FAIR Action Alert, 3/12/09); a July 2009 tracking poll from the Kaiser Family Foundation found 58 percent support for Medicare for all. But a piece detailing the deficiencies of a "crazy" single-payer system is an unlikely venue for that.

Seelye quoted Moffit saying that single-payer "would not save taxpayers money," while another academic suggested it would "require a tripling in payroll taxes just to pay hospitals alone." These are stark claims that are at odds with the research of single-payer advocates and experts. Physicians for a National Health Program, for example, calculate the annual savings on administrative paperwork under a single-payer system at more than $350 billion. International surveys of health systems generally show that nations that have adopted public plans spend far less than the U.S., and achieve better results (BMJ, 5/26/07).

So why couldn't the Times quote sources who would take issue with these claims? From the looks of it, balance wasnt the point here. The Times collected a litany of criticisms of single-payer healthcarein effect rebutting claims that the paper rarely allows its advocates to make in the first place.

ACTION:
Ask New York Times public editor Clark Hoyt why the Times ran a piece devoted to undermining the case for single-payer healthcare without allowing advocates to make the case in support of Medicare for all.

CONTACT:
New York Times, Clark Hoyt, Public Editor
public@nytimes.com
Phone: 212-556-7652

Thanks for all that you do,
Healthcare-NOW! National Staff

P.S. Call Congress for single-payer now! It's easy and toll-free.
http://e2ma.net/go/6518954822/208018353/208696156/28803/goto:http://tools.advomatic.com/35/hc-n/
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Works for the US military, the VA and Canada. nt
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The military and VA are not single-payer. They're socialized medicine
Which is why they work so well.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It's different now, than when I dealt with it. nt
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. What are ya, some sort of Socialist?!! EVIL
:sarcasm:
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Why yes, I am.
:patriot:
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Tricare is run by insurance companies contracted...
by region.

The VA is not as wonderful as some would like to believe.

No choice of doctors, no second opinions, no appeals of diagnosis or treatment...

I have never seen an endocrinologist for my diabetes, nor have I seen an orthopedic specialist for my mysterious joint pain that's never been diagnosed but occasionally leaves me almost bedridden. Lyme disease has been confirmed, but untreated.

What they have done they have generally done well, and it has been free, but it's nothing like the care I used to receive back when I had decent coverage.

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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. That's the point: nobody has decent coverage any more
Sure, the VA has problems, but I don't recall them killing 45,000 people a year by denying them care.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. You'd be surprised. I know at least one guy who couldn't get...
a new cancer treatment Sloan-Kettering came up with. The VA surgeon insisted on an older, and much more invasive, therapy, and the cancer was spreading by the time anything got done.

But, yeah, we got a problem. I heard a guy on the radio talking about the million dollars his insurance company paid for his leukemia treatment. That was for one year, and it's not over yet.

Nobody's seriously dealing with the $40 aspirins, budget-busting dialysis, and other base costs that are killing us.

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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. As long as we allow people to profit off of illness, we'll have cost issues with healthcare
I have no problem paying a surgeon a few hundred k a year. But there's no way a pharma CEO should be buying his third house with money he made off of your cancer.

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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. Why? I read the article and fell off my chair when I saw the FAIR...
piece in my inbox.

Single payer is a completely, totally dead issue. No chance in hell of it happening.

Fershitsake, we can't even be sure of a public option and some people think it's possible to get Medicare for All!

It's not important why at this point, but it's just not going to happen, so why attack an article that explains some of the reason why it won't?

Besides, the Times has been running a long series of articles about healthcare, in print and online, and this in only one of maybe hundreds of pieces they've run.

Anyone read them all, or is it just easier to live with the delusion that we can be Canada.

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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Right, I Just Can't Figure Out Why
a lot of people are pushing something in the middle of the legislation that is not even on the table at this point. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

It is very pertinent, however, whether the reconciled version of the current bill includes a public option and what kind of option. It's also pertinent whether the current bill is likely to lead to a better federal plan in the future or actually makes it less likely.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. that was not a NY Times article! It was only a Blog post, on a health blog! n/t
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. notice how they never provided the actual link to the "article"
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. No link, but I think this is who you are looking for..
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. nope, i searched & found the actual "article," which is actually a Blog post
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Here, the NY Times PRAISES the Massachusetts Program, in an actual Editorial:
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Here, read the replies on your article:
Edited on Thu Sep-24-09 03:07 PM by and-justice-for-all
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. This is the one...
http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/19/medicare-for-all-crazy-socialized-and-unlikely/

It was linked in the original FAIR email I got. I'm on the Healthcare Now list, too, but I can't find the one in the OP.

As I said before, with hundreds of blog posts and articles about helath care, most of them highly informative, I don't know why FAIR went after this one.

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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. Your post unfairly bashes a Blog post, Ignores Many actual NYT's articles & editorials
one example, argues for strong public option....

granted public option is not single payer, but it's a start:


"....The debate is really over whether to open the door a crack for a new public plan to compete with the private plans. Most Democrats see this as an important element in any health care reform, and so do we.

A public plan would have lower administrative expenses than private plans, no need to generate big profits, and stronger bargaining power to obtain discounts from providers. That should enable it to charge lower premiums than many private plans.

It would also provide an alternative for individuals who either can’t get adequate insurance from private insurers or don’t trust the private insurance industry to treat them fairly. And it could serve as a yardstick for comparing the performance of private plans and for testing innovative coverage schemes.

Unfortunately, many Senate Democrats are so desperate to find a political compromise with Republicans — or so bullied by the rhetoric — that they are in danger of gravely weakening a public plan, or eliminating it entirely. That would be a mistake.

Here is a look at the main proposals now under consideration:

THE MOST ROBUST This approach, favored by many analysts, would allow the new public plan to piggy-back on the rate-setting powers of Medicare. As a result, it is the one most feared by Republicans, the insurance industry and doctors and hospitals. Any doctors who wanted to participate in Medicare, as virtually all do, would also have to participate in this plan and would have to accept the same payment rates as Medicare provides.

With lower costs, it would be cheaper for consumers, charging its members premiums as much as 20 to 30 percent lower than premiums for comparable private coverage, a boon to hard-pressed families.

It would also shave hundreds of billions of dollars from the amount needed to cover the uninsured — a crucial advantage as Congress scrambles to finance the reform effort.

The risk is that if this plan, given its power, were too stingy, it might drive some financially stressed hospitals into bankruptcy. The hope is that the downward pressure on reimbursements might force them to innovate and find big savings."

/snip


<http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/opinion/21sun1.html>
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I received it in an email from Healthcare-NOW
sorry it was not to your standards.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. so, getting it in an email legitimizes it?
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Well if you have a problem with that, tough shit..
Edited on Thu Sep-24-09 02:54 PM by and-justice-for-all
and while your bitching about it, take it up with http://www.healthcare-now.org/
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Better to take it up with you-- you posted it here, and...
it's an email referring to another email referring to a blog post you never read.

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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
24. Katharine Seelye sounded familiar. So I checked on her.
She's a tool. Media Matters has a dossier. They call her a serial misinformer.

http://mediamatters.org/search/index?qstring=Katharine+Seelye&from=&to=&tags=&tags=&tags=&tags=


Ah! Now I remember her.

During the 2000 campaign, New York Times reporter Katharine Seelye promoted the image of Al Gore as a liar and exaggerator -- and she did so by making up things that he never said, then explaining that they weren't true.

This morning, Seeyle posted a preview of tonight's VP debate on the Times blog The Caucus. In it, she outlined what she'll be "watching for," both generally and for each candidate. Given her previous obsession with falsehoods and exaggerations, and given Sarah Palin's well-documented penchant for both, you might assume Seeyle would mention the danger for Palin in saying something that isn't true, or in exaggerating her record.

Wrong. Seeyle didn't devote so much as a single word to the possibility that Palin might say something incorrect or unduly self-aggrandizing. Apparently, that isn't as important to Seelye as the crucial question of whether Biden will "help Ms. Palin with her chair."


http://mediamatters.org/blog/200810020003

She's not to be believed...even if she's ordering coffee.
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