Teacher Unions Criticize Obama's School Proposals as 'Bush III'

[Better Believe It]

Unions Criticize Obama's School Proposals as 'Bush III'
By Nick Anderson
Washington Post Staff Writer
September 25, 2009

To the surprise of many educators who campaigned last year for change in the White House, the Obama administration's first recipe for school reform relies heavily on Bush-era ingredients and adds others that make unions gag.

Standardized testing, school accountability, performance pay, charter schools -- all are integral to President Obama's $4.35 billion "Race to the Top" grant competition to spur innovation. None is a typical Democratic crowd-pleaser.

Labor leaders, parsing the Education Department's fine print, call the proposal little more than a dressed-up version of the No Child Left Behind law enacted seven years ago under Obama's Republican predecessor.

"It looks like the only strategies they have are charter schools and measurement," said Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers. "That's Bush III." Weingarten, who praises Obama for massive federal aid to help schools through the recession, said her 1.4 million-member union is engaged in "a constructive but tart dialogue" with the administration about reform.

The National Education Association, with 3.2 million members, called it a "disturbing" federal intrusion. "We have been down that road before with the failures of No Child Left Behind," the union writes, "and we cannot support yet another layer of federal mandates that have little or no research base of success and that usurp state and local government's responsibilities for public education." Union affiliates from 19 states weighed in, many echoing such views.

Please read the complete article at:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/24/AR2009092403197.html

[tritsofme]

1. Rhetoric like this obscures their message and makes them look ridiculous. nt

[brentspeak]

5. Doesn't obscure it all; it clarifies their message

It gets right to the heart of the matter in unambiguous terms: Obama is trying to privatize the public school system.

[IndianaGreen]

16. Ass kissing have gotten liberals nowhere!

We should have screamed bloody murder when Obama put single payer off the table.

[tritsofme]

18. No, it's just saying that Obama is just like Bush makes one look incredibly stupid.

The typical voter would find such an assertion absurd.

[Dinger]

21. Yes It Does, BUT

as far as education policy, there is not much difference at all.

[LWolf]

40. It doesn't say he's just like Bush.

This educator, and NEA member, says he is WORSE than Bush on education.

That doesn't make him "like" Bush. It makes him different.

[roody]

106. Let's see.....endless war, privatize schools,

bail out banks. Quite absurd.

[Brickbat]

2. I have to say this is one of the things I'm disappointed in Obama for. And there's a lot I'm happy

with, don't get me wrong. But this is huge. And wrong. And hugely wrong.

[LiberalAndProud]

112. Me too. I am keenly disappointed in his education policies.

I listened to Obama's townhall meetings during the campaign, and I thought he had listened to some very brilliant viewpoints. Now I find that he must not have been listening at all. NCLB should be repealed in whole. Nothing good has come of it.

For all the things I cheer Obama for, where he falls short, he falls very, very short of the mark.

[RJDem]

3. Dissapointing doesn't begin to describe it...

New boss same as the old boss.

[AllyCat]

4. My husband and are 90% certain we are going to homeschool, this pushes me over the edge

I don't want my kids to learn how to take tests for the sake of taking tests. I want them to know how to function in the world. This about clinches it for me unless something changes between now and when the oldest goes to school.

[Dinger]

22. As A Public School Teacher, I Don't Blame You One Bit

Good post.

[AllyCat]

58. A friend of mine is a public high school teacher and just rolls her eyes when I mention

NCLB. She said it is horrible for her doesn't help the students. She teaches science.

It's frustrating because I feel I received a great education in public schools. For awhile, we thought we could augment what our sons learned at school with activities at home. But a co-worker told me her kids have so much homework, there is no time for anything extra like that. She said her 10 year old is up until 11 pm doing HUNDREDS of math problems.

I know every school is different, but it sounds like there is little option with this stupid NCLB thing. I really thought Obama would change this until I saw Duncan as Ed Sec. Sounds like nothing will change at all.

How is teaching for you now? Did you teach before Bush's meddling?

[robo50]

89. If a 10 year old is up until 11 doing HUNDREDS of math problems,

the teacher that assigns them is not teaching well, and assigning too much work for any 10 yr old, and should be fired.

I can't imagine any good teacher would find that homework assignment reasonable, even for a 15 year old.

[AllyCat]

108. I agree, but this is considered "good, tough instruction" by many parents

To me, that is just rubbish and counterproductive. Actually, it seems torturous. There is no point to it at all.

[Dinger]

110. This Is What I Tell Parents At Conference Time

A general rule is 10 minutes per year (ex: 30 minutes in 3rd grade), and if their child is doing more than that, we should meet and discuss it. It might be a question of a student's using their class time wisely. It might be a matter of establishing a routine at home . A student might need to be evaluated to determine if there is a learning disability. It would be important to meet with the parents and come up with a solution because we both (teacher and parent) want their child to succeed and grow. By the way, I never wait weeks or months for the results of an evaluation. I invite all students in my class to come in for extra help whenever they need it. This includes my lunch time (I rarely take our duty free lunch. Too many kids need help and I have to use any time I can get to plan and grade.), This also includes the days that I do not have recess duty (3 days a week). It seems like more of my students take advantage of this as the year goes on. There are many things a classroom teacher can do to help kids before they are eligible for special education intervention. I think it is wise not to wait. There is a program called RTI (Response To Intervention) our school is trying, and I don't like it a bit. Students have to wait 18 months for any (special ed) intervention to take place. It seems like a way to keep kids out of special education because it "costs too much." These students are being robbed of an education under this program. I hope it fades fast. Anyway, I have no problem reducing the number of problems/questions in a homework assignment. In my opinion, a student can demonstrate their understanding of fractions by doing 5 problems just as well as they can by doing 20. Sorry, I rambled a bit here.

[robo50]

113. You are absolutely correct about that. A good teacher knows

when a child has mastered concepts and skills in math or any other subject being taught.

A good teacher makes the "work" of learning and practice a reasonable task for the age of the child.

[polichick]

49. I don't blame you either - just remember to teach them about evolution. ;)

[brentspeak]

6. What Obama is doing isn't just terrible policy, it's terrible politics, too

The nation's public school teachers are normally a stalwart of the Democratic Party. Alienate them, and national Democrats everywhere will struggle during elections.

[Dinger]

23. We Aren't totally Alienated, But

were getting there.

[Igel]

54. No, it's not terrible politics.

The teachers are a special interest group, and relatively small. Parents are a special interest group and a much larger group.

It's politically expedient to point to test scores and shout "responsibility". After all, what it does it say that parents aren't responsible. Yet consistently the biggest determiners of student success go back to parents--how they raise the kid, what they teach the kid. Mediocre teacher and great parents = fairly good education; excellent teacher and mediocre parents = teacher struggling to teach.

Everything else is trying to make up for bad parenting--some of which is inevitable, some of which is completely "evitable"--while trying to absolve the parents of blame.

Dostoevsky's Grand Inquisitor pointed out to Christ that if you want the people to follow you, do three things: Take on the burden of freedom, and relieve them of the burden of responsibility; feed them, give them bread; and give them mystery and miracle. Christ, in the same narrative, had done the opposite: He had given them freedom, and with freedom great responsibility; he had said that they do not live by bread alone, but by the Word of God; and he came to reveal, not to mystify, and said that miracles weren't for the unbelieving.

NCLB, and Arne after it, says, "Let us be responsible in your place; you don't have to worry." How is that a losing formula?

[Jakes Progress]

83. Part of terrible politics.

As you point out, the administration feels it can thumb its nose at educators. Just a relatively small group. But they have also been active at thumbing their nose at gays. Another relatively small group. They are starting to piss off other relatively small groups.

We have a two party system, but it still works by coalition. Those relatively small groups make up the working majority. Sure, they may not have another candidate to vote for since the republicans are the devil. But without the enthusiasm and rabid support that turns into the kind of seriously committed workers I had to work with during the election, we will not be so successful in 2012. We can hope that the republicans run another senile old poot and dumber-than-bush backwoods dork again. But if they get serious about a candidate, we will need every single one of those "relatively" small groups that are being turned into bus asphalt on a regular basis.

Oh and not to mention. Some voters will see the smarminess of sacrificing our children for a cheap populist shout out.

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. Over 3 million members in both unions

That's not a relatively small special interest group.

[LWolf]

75. It seems like he has set out to deliberately alienate us;

first with the appointment of Duncan, then with tying access to stimulus dollars to anti-teacher, anti-union, anti-education reforms.

[QC]

82. It's called trangulation, and Obama could teach Bill Clinton himself

a thing or two about it.

[LWolf]

97. The term "triangulation"

now appears in the meetings, sessions, and memos about how to interpret and respond to those test scores that are now the only thing valued about education.

Excessive use of triangulation does not reflect well on Obama.

[last_texas_dem]

7. K & R

>>>>Debate over Race to the Top among Democrats, education groups and others is widespread, with thousands of written comments pouring into the government since late July. It previews the clash to come when Obama and the Democratic-led Congress update No Child Left Behind. The controversial law is certain to be renamed and reworked. But those who want to scrap it entirely might be disappointed because federal education policy has been largely bipartisan for the past two decades.

"Obama's the fourth president in a row who has been in favor of standards-based reform and test-driven accountability," said Jack Jennings, a former Democratic congressional aide and president of the Center on Education Policy. "Obama's very much in a line of four consecutive presidents -- two liberals, two conservatives; two Democrats and two Republicans -- who are all in favor of the same kind of reform.">>>>

Kinda funny to consider that a common argument of those who support these sorts of "reforms" (NCLB and its precursors) is always, "But we can't continue to do what we've been doing! That obviously hasn't worked!" I suppose they're right and the types of measures they've been proposing for at least two decades now haven't "worked"; wonder why they keep proposing similar measures? They just can't accept that the measures they support have basically become the status quo.

[MichiganVote]

8. Hope you like the loss of your local control folks. This is the nail in the coffin.

[mzteris]

96. yeah 'cause local school boards

are so darn great.

Especially in those RED fundie areas, ya know?

[LisaM]

9. However, there will be one place where Obama is not Bush III

I think he'll at least listen to the teachers. I can't even begin to tell you how much I DO NOT want a nickel of my tax money going to charter schools. Not that anyone cares what I think about that. But Obama has shown a willingness to evolve his opinions. That, I respect.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

10. Have they compared the US with some other countries that succeed with education

there's something amiss in the education system in this country!

[LWolf]

77. No kidding.

Many comparisons have been made. For decades.

And none of the reforms pushed by corporate politicians address the discrepancies. Neither do the reforms touted by corporate politicians address any of the recognized needs, and the ideas for authentic reform, desired by our own educators.

Also, some of the comparisons simply aren't valid. We attempt to educate everyone, and we don't sort and limit students as early, or to the same extent, that other places do.

[ProSense]

11. Why Obama is Winning on Education.

Why Obama is Winning on Education.

<...>

When I profiled Weingarten for the Prospect earlier this year, she was much warmer toward the White House. She even made a point of returning a call to Secretary of Education Arne Duncan during our interview, emphasizing their good relationship. But this was back during the stimulus fight, in which local school districts won big, preventing teacher and support staff layoffs. And it was before the depth of the administration's commitment to a pro-charter school and merit pay agenda emerged. The tone has changed.

Whatever your assessment of Obama's education agenda, there's little doubt that he is racking up successes, as Ruth Marcus noted earlier this week. I think the secret ingredient has been the excitement that the $4.3 billion Race to the Top competition engenders at the state level, particularly among governors. Only eight to 12 states are expected to win the grants, meant to foster school reform with a focus on standards and accountability. Every governor would like to run for reelection with that feather in his or her cap. That's why state legislatures are moving quickly to overturn laws capping charter schools and limiting teacher merit pay, as the Department of Education has asked them to do.

[paulk]

105. iow

it's all about re-election and not about improving the system? Is that what is meant by "winning"?

That seems to be the point of the article you link to...

[bluestateguy]

12. President Obama saved tens of thousands of teaching jobs with his stimulus bill

The stimulus eliminated or reduced planned layoffs of teachers in many states facing budget shortfalls.

They need to be more grateful.

[MadHound]

14. Actually Obama cut out 16 billion slated for much needed educational construction and repair

He did this in order to pull his "bipartisan" bullshit, and thus condemned thousands of children and teachers to substandard facilities all so for the sake of more tax cuts.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Obama's DOJ just terminated funding for a model program for abused women

in my hometown. The news was reported today on local TV. Abused women don't donate money to politicians, so they don't count!

:grr:

[bluestateguy]

33. What a bunch of crap

nt

[MadHound]

34. Really?

<http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/07/stimulus.cuts/index.html>

Fourth item from the bottom.

Oh, and if you don't think that Obama wasn't trading spending items for bipartisan support, well
<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100049685>

It was well known at the time, and still is, that Obama was trading spending for bipartisan support. I'm sorry that your blind support for the man has blinded you to the facts of the matter.

[bluestateguy]

36. Yes, really

And that article doesn't even say what you claim it says. The cut came from DLCers and the two girls from Maine. Not Obama.

[MadHound]

59. Apparently for you, da nile ain't just a rive is it

Please, if I ever become as partisan and hyper-party-uber-alles as you are, just shoot me. I value the truth too much.

[robo50]

90. Do you have a link to the right wing or Fox News article that told you this?

Cut 16 billion from what?

[jonnyblitz]

19. they need to be more grateful? WOW

infuckingSANE. :wow:

[Dinger]

27. Ditto (nt)

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joeycola]

61. Throw me a carrot and I will bow before you strategy. No thanks.

[Vidar]

13. K&R

[MadHound]

15. Yup, Obama is taking us further and further down the road to privatized education

If Obama keeps pissing people off like this, liberals, anti war folks, teachers, healthcare reformers, etc. he's going to be a one term wonder.

[Dinger]

25. Sad But True (nt)

[Dinger]

20. K & R. This Is Fucking Disturbing

So is arne duncan.
Lots of info here on good ol' boy arne:

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/23_03/arne233.shtml

Of course if you don't want to know, don't read it.

[Dinger]

24. Under Duncan's Rule, CPS Was The Most Militarized Public School System In The Country

And while I've never been in the military, I have had several relatives that have. The "tear 'em down and build 'em up" militaristic approach to "fixing" our nation's schools is lunacy.

[madfloridian]

26. Test, more tests, fail the schools, make them into charter schools.

Fund a failing program called NCLB.

Then watch the charter schools make excuses for bad test scores.

"..."Shirley Hall, school accountability coordinator for Ball State’s charter schools, believes the difficulty of the test could have played a part in why scores are low. Students and teachers statewide complained the spring ISTEP+ was too hard.

“They were tired of testing and sometimes that causes scores to go down,” Hall said. “It was a lot, a lot of high-stakes testing last year.”

Then just as Florida is starting to crack down on failing charter schools....have the Education Dept order more and more of them.

Deregulation

The second main idea behind charters is that state directives are strangling public school innovations. That's why charters are exempted from many regulations restricting the operations of traditional public schools. The trouble is that deregulation creates opportunities for mountebanks to pilfer the public purse, abuse children, and the like. As a matter of fact, to the extent that charter operators have freedom of action, the confidence tricksters and bunko artists among them find opportunities for fraud and misuse of public funds. What is more, the politicians (and/or their relatives) who push charters often end up feeding at the charter school trough themselves.

Recommended.

[Dinger]

28. Excellent Post As Usual Madfloridian

Deserves it's own thread.

[ProSense]

32. "Fund a failing program called NCLB." Don't pretend that the AFT doesn't support NCLB

The AFT on NCLB

The AFT has long championed the principles underlying the No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB), the reauthorized Elementary and Secondary Education Act: high standards for all children, with appropriate tests to measure whether the standards are being met; disaggregation of student achievement data; "highly qualified" teachers and well-trained paraprofessionals in every classroom; and extra support for students and schools performing below proficient levels.

NCLB represents the federal government's commitment to these principles and to the goal of eliminating the existing achievement gap. Since the bill's passage in 2002, the AFT and its state and local affiliates have worked with the Department of Education, state and local education authorities and others in the civil rights and education communities to help achieve the positive goals of NCLB. The AFT recognizes that the principles and goals of the law cannot be met without changes in the law, proper implementation and the necessary funding.

The adequate yearly progress (AYP) formula is a highly inaccurate and arbitrary yardstick for measuring progress. The law sets predetermined benchmarks for students' proficiency without taking into account schools' starting points. Furthermore, its testing of students with disabilities and English language learners is neither valid nor reliable.

The "highly qualified" teacher requirements, as currently implemented, are unworkable for some teachers and do not apply to all individuals, such as supplemental service providers and charter school teachers, who teach public school students. Paraprofessionals are not being provided with the range of options necessary to demonstrate that they are qualified, nor the financial support necessary to meet the requirements.

While the AFT supports targeting resources to disadvantaged students who are struggling to reach state standards, the narrow set of school improvement interventions are not research based and may be punitive rather than helpful to the schools and children they serve. Furthermore, requiring schools to divert scarce Title I resources to support public school choice and supplemental services diverts already limited classroom resources to these unproven interventions.

These problems with the structure and implementation of the law have been exacerbated by a lack of adequate funding from the federal government. It is clear that the increases in funding recommended by the administration for the upcoming fiscal year are far short of what is necessary to get the job done, and what the Congress anticipated would be required to meet the mandates of the law.

To this end, the AFT is working tirelessly to achieve the necessary changes in NCLB so that its promised benefits reach every child.

They want changes, but they support the legislation's goals.

[madfloridian]

37. AFT was not my union. Thank goodness.

[Dinger]

43. Mine Either. Thank Goodness. (nt)

[ProSense]

45. This is hilarious.

Both salivating over the WaPo article, now both disowning the AFT.

[madfloridian]

50. Why are you so strong on charter schools?

I am trying to understand why you ridicule teachers' unions...who by the way at a national level are unpredictable and change with the wind.

County and state speak more to the needs of teachers than national level.

You ridicule everyone of us who post sensible stuff showing charter schools for what they are.

Unions for teachers are often really not that at all....in Florida they are just bargaining groups with little power. Teachers can't strike or even speak out really.

I have been consistent and fair in my opposition to charter schools, which are taking public money with little regulation.

You have a right to love them, or whatever.

[ProSense]

53. "I am trying to understand why you ridicule teachers' unions" What the hell are you talking about?

Here's the NEA:

• We should not continue to narrowly focus on charter schools as the only model of reform for schools worthy of serious attention.

There are good charter schools and there are very bad charter schools. It all depends on how well they are designed and how they are held accountable. Charter schools were originally started as places where educators, communities, and parents who wanted to try something out of the box—such as scheduling or curriculum or parental involvement or ways to motivate students and could experiment—in the hopes that if we found something that worked well, we could scale it up to other public schools.

Putting a cap on the number of charters in a state makes sense so that states can put good systems in place to approve, monitor, evaluate, and hold these charter schools accountable. Among the states that have had the most egregious examples of corruption, mismanagement, and incompetence in charter schools is Arizona, a state that has very lax rules on design and accountability and, not surprisingly, no limit on the number of charter schools that can be established in that state.

Where charters are working well, they are highly accountable, non-selective public schools where public school employees are given unprecedented freedom to experiment with success models that can be scaled up. Taking the caps off charter schools means LESS accountability as monitoring agencies would not have the time and resources to ensure that every charter school would be held to high standards.

Furthermore, the RTTT proposal insists on states adopting a charter school law that “does not…effectively inhibit increasing the number of charter schools in the state…” The “effectively inhibit” language is overbroad and vague, providing ample opportunity for federal interference with state authority to determine how and under what standards charters are authorized and monitored.

Additionally, there are 11 states that do not have charter school laws for varying reasons. For example, Washington State’s citizens have had votes at least three times, and overwhelming majorities voted charters down. When the people of a state speak in this democratic union, the government should listen. Creating a proposal that focuses its efforts for innovation primarily on charters violates that principle and ignores the other kinds of innovation and creativity happening in the public school system—such as magnet schools, academies and any number of innovative programs from which parents can choose.

In some states, like Montana, the administration’s proposal on charter schools is unconstitutional. It isn’t just unworkable—it is unconstitutional. Under Montana’s standard of accreditation, which was recommended by the State Superintendent and adopted by the Board of Public Education, charter schools are permissible—but none have been chartered. Requiring the opening of charter schools in one of the most rural states in the nation does not make sense.

The proposal also would usurp Montana collective bargaining rights, statutory rights, and local school board governance. The Montana state legislature would be involved in school governance, something MEA-MFT has successfully fought for decades.

If education reform is to be done with teachers and their representatives, instead of to us, it is important that the administration understand what is working already. Montana has a strong public education system. It can be improved, and it is committed to improving education, especially for Native American students, but not at the expense of its state constitution, and not at the expense of members’ statutory and collective bargaining and rights.

Lastly, we urge the Administration to start highlighting models in addition to charters. For example, magnets promote racial and socioeconomic integration more effectively than charters, while offering the same advanced academics and unique courses that make both models popular among parents, according to a 2008 report from the Civil Rights Project at University of California, Los Angeles. The report found that magnets embody a key advantage over charter schools, namely, integration: Magnets promote it, while charter schools can exacerbate racial isolation.

link (doc)

I suppose you'll disown the NEA too.

[roody]

107. It's DATA-DRIVEN. That means lots of money for computer

anything. Not much for teaching.

[Dinger]

29. Oh Oh. Here Come The Unrecs

One can only guess . . .

[IndianaGreen]

31. The Ministry of Truth is hard at work

Unrecommending any story they disapprove of, and consigning it to the memory hole. How Orwellian have we become!

[ProSense]

35. But your Ministry of Truth, WaPo, represents the truthtellers? From the OP

The National Education Association, with 3.2 million members, called it a "disturbing" federal intrusion. "We have been down that road before with the failures of No Child Left Behind," the union writes, "and we cannot support yet another layer of federal mandates that have little or no research base of success and that usurp state and local government's responsibilities for public education." Union affiliates from 19 states weighed in, many echoing such views.

From an August 22 piece in the NYT:

Teachers Strike Back: The nation’s teachers aren’t giving Mr. Obama’s most significant school improvement proposal very high marks.

In a statement issued late Friday, the country’s largest teachers union, with a largely Democratic membership of 3.2 million, likened Mr. Obama’s plan to the Bush administration’s “top-down” approach.

“We find this top-down approach disturbing; we have been down that road before with the failures of No Child Left Behind,” the union wrote in its comments, “and we cannot support yet another layer of federal mandates that have little or no research base of success and that usurp state and local government’s responsibilities for public education.”

Do you even know when Weingarten said "That's Bush III," and what she was referring to? In fact, is this even a recent statement?

[democrat2thecore]

41. Are you admittedly on the far right of the Democratic Party?

You've always lately been a dependable poster to support the corporate interests within the Democratic Party. What happened with you?

[ProSense]

44. WTF? If you're looking for someone to support bullshit whining and distortion

look somewhere else.

"What happened with you?"

May I ask, who the hell are you?

[democrat2thecore]

46. Distract and redirect?

Who am I? Who are you?

You used to post some very progressive thoughts. Lately, you seem to protect Obama at all costs and line up with the corporate Democrats at every opportunity.

Legitimate question as to what happened.

[ProSense]

48. Here's a tip:

Learn to recognize distortions. It'll help with your confusion.

[democrat2thecore]

51. Thanks for the tip....(please!)

I wasn't even necessarily talking about your OP, it's in your comments, your defense of Obama on damn near everything, your support for the corporate policies that abhor so many of the grassroots Democrats who gave a lot of money and - more importantly - a lot of time to President Obama. You seem oblivious as to his falling on the side of Big Everything while throwing bones and scraps to progressives. Here's a tip for you (since I guess we're exchanging tips): http://www.dlc.org

[ProSense]

52. "your defense of Obama on damn near everything" Stop wasting your time,

maybe you can retool your self-righteous rambling and aim it at the critics of "Obama on damn near everything"?

I don't care.

[donco6]

56. A noble effort.

But you'll never get an answer out of that one.

[ProSense]

57. Peanut gallery.

[Bluenorthwest]

67. I notice that teachers are always proud of their professions

[donco6]

68. I am. And I'm proud of the work we do.

Here in my district, our kids arrive 40% monolingual Spanish. They are sweet adorable children. We teach almost all of them to read English by 3rd grade. Do they perform as well as the kids down in Cherry Creek who walk in with 2 years of private preschool and parents who've taken them to Disneyland every summer? No. But NCLB demands that we do. And if we don't, we face school closure, conversion to the Magic Charter School, and everyone loses his/her job. It should be no difficult task to see why we might be a little bitter.

[Dinger]

69. Thank You donco

:)

[LWolf]

102. As we should be.

It's a noble calling, and a pretty thankless one, in terms of respect or support.

[LWolf]

103. Ministry of Truth.,

:rofl:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Autumn]

65. One doesn't need to guess n/t

[LWolf]

39. They're right.

The Obama/Duncan education plan is like Bush on steroids. It pushes privatization faster, and farther, in the first year than GWB did in 8, by tying stimulus dollars to bad reform.

As George Schmidt, Chicago educator and editor of Substance said when Duncan was appointed, he's a "privatizer, union buster, and corporate stooge."

Now we're seeing that agenda explode nation wide. :grr:

[Dinger]

42. Not If I have Anything To Say About It

and I'm not the only one. If public school teachers and their unions are told to "fuck off" so to speak, and our votes don't matter, well, it's not too hard to figure out what's next.
:mad:


LWolf for Sec. Of Education! :patriot: :yourock: :headbang: :headbang: :fistbump: :pals: :hi: :thumbsup:

[LWolf]

73. No, it's not too hard.

I hope both the AFT and NEA have the courage and fortitude to actually stand up to Democrats when they are wrong, and when it counts.

At election time. If they don't, plenty of their members DO.

:patriot:

[Dinger]

81. Cutting Through The Bullshit As Usual

:fistbump: :yourock: :headbang: :patriot:

[donco6]

55. Especially paired with Race to the Top funding in this economy.

States are literally (yes, LITERALLY) elbowing each other out of the way to get their hands on that dough and they'll jump through any hoop to get it. More testing? Sure! Mandatory charters? No problem!

[LWolf]

74. Tying teacher pay to test scores? Sure!

Although Obama vaguely, maybe, denied that his version of "merit pay" would be tied to test scores when asked directly during his campaign.

[boppers]

99. LITERALLY?

States, which are geographic land areas, have.... elbows? :D

[donco6]

111. Yes literally.

The meeting of the Chief State School Officers in Washington had people elbowing people out of each others' way to get to Duncan's office so they could make their case that they were doing enough to get the funding.

I had it reported to me from a person in our own Dept. of Ed. here in Colorado.

[polichick]

47. Disturbing - WTF is wrong with Obama?!?

On edit, "disturbing" just wasn't enough.

[boppers]

60. Oh noes, accountability! Testing!

Alternatives! Rewarding better workers!.... Run for the hills!

Take your kids out of the system, so they aren't required to learn!

Schools are not prisons, nor are they summer camp.

[polichick]

62. What happens with constant testing is constant teaching-to-the-test...

That's a waste of a kid's time ~ has nothing to do with learning, especially learning how to think.

Unfortunately, a lot of "blue ribbon" schools like those in our district teach-to-the-test so much there's little time for learning that matters.

Someone as smart as Obama should know better.

[Dinger]

64. You'd Think So, Wouldn't You

I keep hoping.

[boppers]

94. You don't believe "learning how to think" is testable?

Or is your contention that the testing need to be improved?

Or is it that any testing is bad?

[Dinger]

63. Accountability, But Not For Charters & Private Schools, Which Is Where This IS Heading

In Wisconsin at least, charters do not have the accountability that public schools do. Nice little arrangement. Hell, they could even test! Thing is, they don't even have to report the results IF they choose to take it that is. Nice, then they get the money, and public schools are devastated further.

[Telly Savalas]

86. Duncan is on the record saying that if a particular charter school can't get the job done

its charter should be revoked and it should be closed. I don't know if the education plan will have enough teeth to ensure this will happen, but it's the intent.

I'm not real thrilled about Duncan's plan, but the ceaseless distortions and misrepresentation of facts one sees here are nauseating.

[LWolf]

78. Thus spoken by someone

completely ignorant of how this system actually plays out, and of the resulting effects, in our school system today. :eyes:

[brentspeak]

84. Are schools corporations? Does your post make sense?

[robo50]

91. So only corporations, NOT PUBLICLY FUNDED schools, should be

held accountable??

I'm sure you agree we all want results, and accountable schools. The question, as always, is how to hold schools accountable, and what will enable them to improve!

[Dinger]

98. Charter Schools Are NOT Held To The Same Standard,

at least not in Wisconsin. So accountability for who?

[robo50]

100. SO..........change the Federal laws to make them all acountable, or you would prefer

more reasons to just complain and not improve all schools?

Sometimes I wonder if teachers, and school accountability advocates have a chip on their shoulder and really want to stand in the way of
real improvements.

[boppers]

95. No, schools aren't corporations. They need *MORE* scrutiny than that.

When corporations fail, or perform poorly, the market can move on to the better ones.

We don't have that option when it comes to schools, if our schools are failing, it destroys the whole fabric of our society.

Take a look at the history of our schools *before* we had more national oversight: Rampant racism, a lack of understanding basic science, sub-literate "graduates", geographically ignorant adults, and a populace that was largely missing out on college.

Then came desegregation, CIM, outcome education reform, computers in classrooms (and homes), and as a result, Generation X currently has the highest education levels of any generation age bloc, literacy is back in favor, most young adults in the US have national and international pen-pals. There's still lots of room for improvement, but arguing that we regress education to a *lack* of large scale standards seems inappropriate. (As others have noted, some states are apparently letting charters ignore those standards, which seems broken to me, as well.)

[bigwillq]

66. Read something similar in Time Magazine.

How a few "experts" think Obama's plan is no better than Bush's NCLB.
They certainly need to get rid of NCLB.

[Better Believe It]

70. I have poster #'s 32,44,45,48,52 and 53 on ignore.

I probably have them on ignore bacause of constant personal attacks on progressive DU'ers.

If you run into posters who treat Democratic Underground as a trash talk board and refuse to engage in civil debate, you can always put them on ignore as I have done.

[donco6]

71. They're a good reminder to me, though.

About how ignorant people can be whey they're blinded by personal obsession.

[Dinger]

80. Sometimes I Add Them To My Buddy List

I have my reasons. I'll just leave it at that.

[AllyCat]

88. All the same person. I've had run-ins with this person too. Ignore...good idea!

[thoughtcrime1984]

72. Like many of you, I have been a big Obama supporter, BUT-

He is too corporate for my tastes, and is absolutely awful on the education issues. I am pro-union, pro-public schools, and tired of the private sector being funded by the gov't and then keeping all of the profits. Now, I don't believe Obama has been bad at all, on the whole, actually, he is repairing the US's image with the world, and that in itself is a great start. However, the privatization of education is very unsettling to me, and though I still support our President, and will certainly vote for him in 2012, my zeal has been diminished considerably. My prior screen name was obama_for_our_future, by the way.

[LWolf]

79. Thank you for recognizing

the danger to our public education system.

[joeycola]

85. Duncan has lots of private money to work with including the Walmart

Foundation=all pushing for more charter schools==with Obama's blessing.

[erinlough]

93. You have described my feelings exactly.

I have one question. Because I believe Obama to be smart and fair, why does he show so much disdain for Public Education? To me even what he says he believes to be important with education does not jibe with his policies. I have wondered if he is hearing any other opinions than Duncan's.

By the way this year Michigan will start prioritizing state benchmarks and figuring out how the schools can test them at least on a weekly basis. Tell me when this is supposed to happen and with what funds? We are officially broke..... None of this makes any sense to me at all.

[VPStoltz]

76. I can't see how this method will ever "save" money.

Because these testing methods lump the entire student body, those kids who can't keep up are given special help in the form of SpecEd teachers, and interventionists, and all kinds of people with letters behind their names. Some of this additional help has entire classroom to themselves to work with 1 or 2 kids at a time. There are "coaches" in schools, full time employees, roaming schools put there to teach experienced teachers how to teach reading and math. But librarians are being cut, nurses are in buildings two days a week (I guess the only two days kids get sick or hurt themselves), counselors (staff in elementary now!) are available two days a week. It really is insane.

[Boomerang Diddle]

92. Who was Bush II?

n/t

[LWolf]

101. GWB.

George Herbert Walker Bush, the 41st president...Bush I.

George W. Bush, the 43rd...Bush II.

[democracy1st]

104. kick same ol bs

[Dinger]

109. Sunday Morning Kick From Me

Because this is still sickening.

[CalvinandHobbes]

114. Can anyone tell me,

why standardized testing, school accountability and performance pay are not good sound ideas no matter where they came from. Or are unions allowed to demand the current failure of status quo.?

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[YvonneCa]

116. Thanks for posting this. n/t