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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:13 AM
Original message
Grassley currently talking about 'single-payer' like it's an unpopular idea.
Edited on Tue Sep-29-09 10:22 AM by Dawgs
:eyes:

Says that the public option is a secret plot to eventually get us single-payer. Quoted Obama from before he ran as President when he said that 'single-payer is the best idea, but it might be hard to do it right away'.

Schumer just asked Grassley, 'What do you think of the medicare plan?'. Schumer main argument is that 'a public option will eventually lead to single-payer'.

Let's hope he is right.
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, we the people who are blessed to have it secretly despise it...
:crazy:
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. He's making shit up. None of what he just said is accurate.
Edited on Tue Sep-29-09 10:21 AM by Avalux
Now Schumer challenging him on Medicare - THAT is a government run healthcare plan. Grassley says it's part of the social fabric of America and it wouldn't be easy to undo it without hurting private sector plans. :eyes:
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. Bill Nelson seems to be arguing passionately for the public option.
:woohoo:
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I noted that: is it possible we could have a party-line committee vote?
I must say, I wouldn't have been expecting Nelson to have been questioning as he did.

Grassley, on the other hand, seemed like a deer in the headlights: his arguments (as Schumer pointed out) were illogical; he was stammering; and in the end, he didn't even sound like he believed his own bull himself. Not the world's best argument-maker. Very weak. I'm intrigued.

I just had to turn off the sound for Orrin Hatch, though. Only so much I can take.

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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. Today we see which Democrats are bought and paid for. They can't run and hide
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. Now Hatch is lying about how a public option will burden American families and explode the deficit.
Edited on Tue Sep-29-09 10:33 AM by Avalux
He doesn't have a fucking clue about how families are currently struggling with the current private system or he wouldn't be saying such crap. Now bashing Medicare; saying it's on the brink of a fiscal meltdown.

Apparently Hatch didn't get the memo - Doctors prefer the Medicare system over private insurance.

:grr:
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Republican arguments are BS.
"Government run health care" isn't going to fly.

Floating the idea that Democrats really want a single-payer system.

Again, let's hope so.

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
7. Grassley just quoted the Lewin group estimate which was based...
Edited on Tue Sep-29-09 10:34 AM by slipslidingaway
on the original Jacob Hacker plan, the proposed public option plans do not resemble the original plan.


Jacob Hacker and EPI speaking about the "Health Care for America" plan.

Health Care For America
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-J9ZgCRiD8



THE HISTORY OF THE PUBLIC OPTION
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=08&year=2009&base_name=the_history_of_the_public_opti

"...One key player was Roger Hickey of the Campaign for America's Future. Hickey took UC Berkley health care expert Jacob Hacker's idea for "a new public insurance pool modeled after Medicare" and went around to the community of single-payer advocates, making the case that this limited "public option" was the best they could hope for. Ideally, it would someday magically turn into single-payer. And then Hickey went to all the presidential candidates, acknowledging that politically, they couldn't support single-payer, but that the "public option" would attract a real progressive constituency. Here's Hickey from a speech to New Jersey Citizen Action in November 2007:

The good news is that people are ready for big change. But the hard reality, from the point of view of all of us who understand the efficiency and simplicity of a single-payer system, is that our pollsters unanimously tell us that large numbers of Americans are not willing to give up the good private insurance they now have in order to be put into one big health plan run by the government.
Pollster Celinda Lake looked at public backing for a single-payer plan - and then compared it with an approach that offers a choice between highly regulated private insurance and a public plan like Medicare. This alternative, called "guaranteed choice" wins 64 percent support to 22 percent for single-payer. And even the hard core progressive part of the population, which Celinda calls the "health justice" constituency, favors "guaranteed choice" over single-payer. ...

Starting in January, we began to take Jacob Hacker to see the presidential candidates. We started with John Edwards and his advisers -- who quickly understood the value of Hacker's public plan, and when he announced his health proposal on "Meet The Press," he was very clear that his public plan could become the dominant part of his new health care program, if enough people choose it.


The rest is history. Following Edwards' lead, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton picked up on the public option compromise.
So what we have is Jacob Hacker's policy idea, but largely Hickey and Health Care for America Now's political strategy. It was a real high-wire act -- to convince the single-payer advocates, who were the only engaged health care constituency on the left, that they could live with the public option as a kind of stealth single-payer, thus transferring their energy and enthusiasm to this alternative. It had a very positive political effect: It got all the candidates except Kucinich onto basically the same health reform structure, unlike in 1992, when every Democrat had his or her own gimmick. And the public option/insurance exchange structure was ambitious.

But the downside is that the political process turns out to be as resistant to stealth single-payer as it is to plain-old single-payer. If there is a public plan, it certainly won't be the kind of deal that could "become the dominant player." So now this energetic, well-funded group of progressives is fired up to defend something fairly complex and not necessarily essential to health reform. (Or, put another way, there are plenty of bad versions of a public plan.) The symbolic intensity is hard for others to understand. But the intensity is understandable if you recognize that this is what they gave up single-payer for, so they want to win at least that much..."





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Ineeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yelling at the T.V. is giving me a headache.
So little true logic: we must preserve competition (but many, if not most, states have little private insurance competition); medicare good/medicare bad in the same sentence; public option is popular because "everyone wants something free", BUT it will cost people more; Gawd, we don't want the Washington bureaucracy to make medical decisions or decide how much we'll pay our doctors and hospitals, but that's exactly what insurance company bureaucracies do. (insert anguished scream here.)
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. "So little true logic..." Agreed and the Repubs are arguing against a plan....
that is not being proposed, but the Dems cannot admit that the original plan has been severely weakened because they need people to be believe it provides real competition to the private companies.

Even though they estimate enrollment at less than 5%.

:shrug:



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JimWis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. The Republicans are spewing the same old crap. Yelling at the
TV here too - wish I could reach in and grab them around the throat. From what I am seeing here - we have 10 Republican no votes coming up on the Public Option - at least 2 Democrat no votes - Baucus and Conrad, that leaves 11 yes votes. I am assuming there are 23 on the committee - 13 Dems and 10 Repugs.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Ensign just cited the Lewin Group, too. I'm surprised no Dem. has called them on it...
if WE know about the Lewin Group, they MUST know, too.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. If the Dems call them on the original estimates from Lewin then people...
might question what changed from the original public/private plan proposed by Jacob Hacker. Also the Dems want their base to believe this is a stealth move to SP and do not want to jeopardize the support a PO has received.

IMO if the Dems wanted a strong PO they should have started from SP as that is what the Repubs are fighting against now.





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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
12. links for those
of us not at home please....
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SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. you can watch online at cspan
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. Senator Crapo is babbling right now. His name is not a misnomer.
Edited on Tue Sep-29-09 01:26 PM by avaistheone1
He is full of crapo.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. Senator Kerry on now and he is doing a good job.
:kick:
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. Grassley is a jerk...
Edited on Tue Sep-29-09 01:35 PM by rasputin1952
Let him talk, he's digging his political grave.

But when he's wrong, (virtually all of the time), you can help him dig that grave faster and deeper by calmly bringing up facts that tear his views apart. The people of Iowa are not stupid, they fell for him rhetoric before, he's now destroying whatever credibility he had left. The people of Iowa can't abide by this cretin, they know Grassley is an embarassment and cannot help them or or the nation.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. Rockefeller amendment defeated, Schumer up now introducing...
his amendment.

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. 8 in favor, 15 against...
http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/live-blogging-senate-finance-committee-debate-on-public-option/?hp

"Down to Defeat| 2:51 p.m. The Rockefeller amendment is voted down, despite his declaration, “The public option is on the march.”

The final tally was 8 in favor, 15 against. The amendment drew no Republican support. Democrats voting against the amendment were Mr. Conrad, Ms. Lincoln, Bill Nelson of Florida and Thomas Carper of Delaware.

Supporting the public option were the Democratic Senators Rockefeller, Bingaman, Kerry, Wyden, Schumer, Stabenow, Cantwell and Menendez."


Rockefeller Coverage Amendment #6 to America’s Healthy Future Act

2 page pdf

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/flash/health/pdf/rockefeller6.pdf


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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-29-09 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
21. Schumer amendment fails n/t
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