I believe I have made a big breakthrough in why the right is so anti-intellectual

[DuaneBidoux]

Although it is just anecdotal, and I think it would deserve much more research, it seems there is something here:

Let’s just look at the education of some of the leading liberal and conservative commentators :

Keith Olberman: Graduated with a BS in communication at Cornell at the age of 16
Chris Matthews: Masters in Economics from the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill
Rachel Maddow: Doctor of philosophy in political science at Oxford
Rush Limbaugh: college dropout (two semesters)
Sean Hannity: college dropout
Glenn Beck: college dropout (one semester)

So here’s the deal: conservatives look around and see that liberals, on average, are much more educated than conservatives. This leaves them with two choices: Either they denigrate education as being unimportant or admit that it is important and that conservatives are conservatives simply because they are uneducated. Given those two options it is obviously much safer on the ego to, as conservatives usually do, blame “The Other,” which in this case is the “liberal” educational system.

I also have another anecdotal thought about Fox’s ratings success. There are many more high school graduates than college graduates. College graduates are rarely going to seek out high school graduates for information and since there are many fewer college graduates (I think it is 3 to 1) then because of this factor alone Fox stands a better chance of better ratings than the others news networks.

The other anecdotal evidence I think about comes from my own family: both of my older parents watch Fox and can’t even get email let alone surf the net for information. I would bet anything that the average liberal gets much more information on the Internet than on tv. Thus people like Rachel Maddow get a very small part of the pie of liberals looking for information.

For those of you who have little or no college please don’t get offended at this assessment. I once heard a great quote: “Not all conservatives are uneducated, but most uneducated people are conservatives.” I guess that would be where I put this. You can still be an informed person who understands the world without education. I’m sure it happens. It’s just one hell of a lot harder to do, and few conservatives seem to manage.

[kestrel91316]

1. Excellent analysis. I think you are largely correct.

[olegramps]

53. Not all Republicans are ignoramuses, but all ignoramuses are Republicans.

[niceypoo]

57. I disagree

I think that all Republicans are ignoramuses.

[iconocrastic]

95. Kind of hard to reach us blue-collar folk with that analysis though

But if that's what floats your boat, have at it.

You obviously feel proud of your college education. Did you pay for it yourself?

Just askin'

[stopbush]

2. In the realm of anecdotal supposition, your thoughts are spot on.

[kestrel91316]

3. One minor correction: Olberman ENTERED Cornell at age 16.

[pnwmom]

7. Right. He graduated at 20. n/t

[tblue]

23. Oh, I was gonna say!

Interesting post/food for thought. It also seems they suffer from a marked petty jealousy -- the "You think you're so smart. I'll show you!" 4th grade schoolyard mentality. We threaten them, in their minds, so we must be belittled and vilified.

[ShortnFiery]

31. That's still awesome.

I started college (State University) at the age of 16 but it wasn't because I was "gifted." I worked like a fiend to get the hell out of my small town (<700) as soon as was humanly possible. :blush:

[uponit7771]

45. Still very impressive, I know a couple of people who've done similar

[AngryAmish]

92. Mrs. AA entered at 16, grauduated at 19

Double major. I call her a showoff.

[polichick]

4. Happy to make it 5 - k&r!

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Great research

I didn't know Glenn Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity were all college dropouts.

[rgbecker]

6. Well that proves it.....we've all been brainwashed at college!

:sarcasm:

[kristopher]

8. Populism attacks all sources of legitimate authority that are a threat

Since the academic community is, by and large, able to untangle the false reasoning used by corporate Republicans, they are eager to de-legitimize the "intellectuals".

That goes hand and glove with another thread of influence - the belief that the bible is the inerrant word of god. Since the corporatists co-opted the bible belt when the Civil Rights Act alienated the white bigots, they have had a core group already predisposed to dislike science. The bible's validity cannot stand close scrutiny and science (especially evolution) has made maintaining the belief in biblical inerrancy an uphill proposition. I think a lot of what we are seeing is a 'last gasp' flailing by this group. (That could be nothing more than wishful thinking.)

[TrogL]

76. I'm reading Jung's 'Psychological Types'

In his typical exhaustively thorough examination of a topic, before getting to the point, he first examines the history of various types of thought. Anti-intellectualism goes waaaaaaaay back and many a philosopher proclaimed its "last gasp" only to be burned at the stake.

[kristopher]

90. I'm not predicting the end of populism

Just the decline of 'the-bible-as-the-inerrant-word-of-god-christian-fundamentalism' as a force in government. There is always going o be a left side of the bell curve.

[iconocrastic]

98. What's the psychological type of Alan Grayson under Jung's system?

Hero archetype?

[TrogL]

116. Taking a wild guess - ENFP

Of the four dichotomies:

Given he's in politics, I'd lean towards Extraversion (introvert Gore is an exception)
He's certainly capable of some intuitive leaps.
I'd hardly call him detached - he goes with his feelings.
The fourth is more controversial. More people are used to Myers-Briggs, so I'd say he perceives a problem and uses the above to react to it.

[Odin2005]

111. Too much introverted sensing from the Freepers?

:)

[anonymous171]

86. I think you mean "illegitimate authority"

Populism is going to save this country. Academics are, by an large, part of the Institution.

[kristopher]

91. THaT iS aNotHer pERspeCtIve.

[anonymous171]

93. Actually it is the truth. nt

[kristopher]

97. No, it isn't. But thanks for playing.

[girl gone mad]

99. There's a lot of truth to it.

Money has corrupted may of our institutions of higher education. A lot of the Masters of the Universe who brought us the financial crisis were graduates of Ivy League schools. Colleges had been colluding with lenders to rip off their students. When you scratch the surface, you see there are problems.

[kristopher]

102. So those problems justify the wingnut "elite" label?

Any system has problems BUT, the academic research network is the only way we have to systematically gather and evaluate information. The discussion is about anti-intellectualism, and it sounds to me like a few people here are infected.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. Kinda reminds me of Adlai.

A little old lady once said to him, "Mr. Stevenson, you have the vote of every thinking American." Adlai's reply: "Unfortunately, Madam, I need a majority.

[Canuckistanian]

27. What a great quote

But what a terrible thing to say today.

:rofl:

[nemo137]

43. He lost then, too.

While the massive anti-intellectualism in this country is a damn shame, I don't think that smugness and condescension is the answer.

[elleng]

47. He did lose, but to Ike!

I don't think anti-intellectualism, smugness or condescension were issues at the time, but I do agree with your point.

[nemo137]

61. I think they were, but not to the extent that they are today.

I've been reading Nixonland, and that was a big part of Nixon's appeal, even in the 50s.

[elleng]

65. and Ike disliked Nixon, and CERTAINLY was not one of them;

he warned AGAINST THEM.

[nemo137]

67. Yes, but there was enough of that resentment there to make RMN a credible politician.

He didn't materialize on Ike's ticked by magic.

Although the Eisenhower wing of the Republican party is long dead and buried, mores the pity.

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. Exactly.

I really wish we'd stop going here.

[Odin2005]

112. LOL! Love that quote!

[DuaneBidoux]

131. That is good

[GMA]

10. That's not been my experience.

Maybe you should get around a bit more. There are a lot of people out there who are smart but not wise. Intelligence + education doesn't necessarily = insight or good judgement. Let's not be elitist here.

[lunatica]

20. Read the OP again

[Greyskye]

21. You seem to be in the substantial minority

Try reading all the way through to the final paragraph.

Perhaps the OP is not the one who needs to get out more...

Welcome to DU.

[AwakeAtLast]

29. Why do you say that the OP is elitist?

Since when does a college degree = elitist? Oh, only when Rupukes say it is. ;)

[ruggerson]

32. "elitist" is a rightwing code word for liberal

[DuaneBidoux]

82. I think it's also a code word in general for anyone who is better as something than I am.

Of course an informed an educated person calls that turning to someone who knows what they are doing for advice--and liberals are generally not afraid to admit that they turn to better qualified people for advice.

[snake in the grass]

107. No.

"Elitist" is rightwing code for, "they're smarter than me".

[treestar]

114. And yet the right wing is fine with an elite, so long as it is based on

money alone.

[Zoeisright]

38. LOL!

Oooooooohh, be scared of the elitists!! Did you hear that from BecKKK or Limpballs?

[lumberjack_jeff]

70. The person to whom you are replying is absolutely right.

But we have some sort of perverse compulsion to go here.

Smart = educated = liberal.

It is as if the smart educated liberal in question didn't pay much attention in civics. You get elected by a majority.

George Bush had about the most elite education it is possible to purchase. An bitchin' education and an IQ of 90 got him the job of president.

[Zoeisright]

72. Oh BS.

And why did you choose to respond to my message, and not the others ridiculing this person?

Get a life.

[lumberjack_jeff]

87. Of those "ridiculing this person" yours best demonstrated the phenomenon.

I clearly picked wisely.

[AspenRose]

59. It's "judgment"

[TrogL]

77. Define your terms. What is "smart"?

[JTFrog]

120. Says the Glenn Beck defender.

Whatever... :eyes:

[marew]

11. Interesting article here.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/decline-of-conservative-intellectualism.html

And here:

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=6542

[otohara]

115. +1

thanks for the links

[valerief]

12. No, it's religion. It's easy to rally the stupid masses with religion.

Religion doesn't rely on logic or facts, just rallying cries.

The smart pro-religion people usually exploit the dummies.

[truedelphi]

15. I agree with both you and the OP

I have had several friends with great educations from "Normal," non-Right wing (whacko) affiliated schools, but despite their education, their ministers now lead them around in circles and they are simply unable to let go of whatever talking point their minister invokes.

One of these women, she grew up in a household where her mom left when she was two and a half. She raised her brother while her dad worked. Can you imagine being three or four and taking care of your kid brother mostly by yourself? And the dad was a terrible alcoholic. I think she loves the strong daddy figure that her know-it-all minister offers her.

[valerief]

17. Yep, the GOP depends on the Jesus circuit to hook their minions.

And it works for them. They get people to give up civil liberties, a steady supply of soldiers for war, and protesters on demand. And all they have to do is say, "Amen."

[Orsino]

13. Deep, rational thought is simply incompatible with right-wing American politics.

Those few on the right with talent and brains must have to grit their teeth as they support the rubes' excesses and shortcomings, but they are whores enough to do so again and again.

Academia is no guarantee of intellectual accomplishment, either. The Yale that graduated John Kerry turns out, amazingly, to be the same one that handed George W. Bush a diploma.

[Overseas]

89. I agree. The Right needs people to mistrust their intellects and reason.

Right wing policies are often against the best interests of the general public so it needs to encourage anti-intellectualism so that whatever sensible arguments are made in support of progressive ideas, with lots of data and rational arguments presented in their favor, they can still pay professional PR firms to rile people up to shout down those ideas.

They need people to be able to look at photos of melting glaciers, see the accelerated melting and still say "Gosh, there's still a lot of controversy about global warming." Or the new age equivalent I heard from a friend-- "Global warming is a hoax. Like the moon landing. The photos are faked. Everything You Know Is Wrong."

[movonne]

14. Good find...and yes you did find the key....now what we do about it??

[whosinpower]

18. Well that is easy!

Have universal university/post secondary level education - first four years paid for by our taxes!

Ducking and running....hehehe

[NoSheep]

73. Mandatory. They get a fine if they don't attend! Idiots cost this country trillions.

[TrogL]

81. I believe there's several countries doing that already

France comes to mind.

[Hepburn]

16. If I recall correctly....

...there are a lot of people on the DU who have bachelors and advanced degrees. However, there also appear to be a lot of people who may not have a ton of education, but they most certainly are intelligent and well read.

My best gal pal is a HS drop out who later got her GED. She is one of the smartest people I know ~~ very quick mind ~~ and she is well read and up on current political subject and the news to the max. She and I pal around all the time and I have a bachelors, masters and a juris doctorate. The only place I hold any edge on her is when we discuss legal matters. Other than that, I would put her on a equal par with me in all other areas and better than me in some. She understands economic issues and medical issues better than I do by far.

[ruggerson]

30. my partner never went to college

- I have two degrees from them fancy eastern snob schools. He is by far smarter than I in any number of areas - he devours Foreign Affairs and the Nation, listens to NPR religiously and has a more sophisticated and nuanced worldview than many of our friends who were far more steeped in academia.

[a la izquierda]

49. My husband barely graduated HS

and he's smart in the savvy-logic kind of way. Much smarter than me, having one year to go to finish my PhD in history

[WinkyDink]

19. Because people who have read and studied don't fall for propaganda?

[lunatica]

22. Required college English is called Critical Thinking

And the curriculum is based mostly on essays and opinion pieces from all sides of the political spectrum. If nothing else you learn to think for yourself because there is no right answer on a test. You must actually argue your own conclusions. You get graded on the content and strength of your argument, your references, etc. You get to have your own opinion and you back it up.

So naturally people actually learn to state their opinions in rational and logical ways that show their own thinking.

Most high schools want students to regurgitate facts they are forced to learn.

But to add to the intelligence and education of people there has to be a constant love of learning and love of being current which entails an interest in people and places and events. Most of the time liberals talk about others and how their affected by laws, politics, etc. Conservatives like Hannity or Limbaugh only talk about their own views about everything. They project their thinking on to their followers. They don't care what their fans think about things. They tell them what to say and think. Thus the beauty of talking points and sound bites. No thinking required.

On the other hand, for liberals it's not so easy because we think in concepts that are layered and we connect dots. Sound bites just don't cut it because they're too limiting and don't truly encompass the complexities. But you find that not in education as much as in people themselves.

[TrogL]

117. One of the best courses I ever took was "Sex Role Stereotypes in Education"

Taught in the 70's by a totally out, shaved-head lesbian.

We spent the first two weeks of a one-semester course on Symbolic Logic. That's right, Logic 101 - syllogisms, formal arguments, logical fallacies, the whole ball of wax.

Then she used that to destroy everything we thought we knew about gender, sex, sex roles, feminity, masculinity, the GLBT community, religion and on and on. Worse, she made you do it yourself. You'd come up with some position like "only girls should be taught home-ec and only boys should be taught shop" then have to defend yourself against "why are most chefs men" and "why are many craftspeople women" and just when you thought you'd gotten away relatively unscathed, she was right back with "given that there are talented chefs such as Julia Child, why are most chefs men" (note, you're now arguing against yourself) and "why is craftsperson (along with a few others) one a few trades available to women".

One poor fellow, a "star of the football team" type (presumably there hoping for a quick credit) would often be reduced to tears of frustration by the end of the class. Being raised authoritarian, he knew what he knew about sex roles was right; being a quick study, he knew that he could prove that wrong now that he had the tools, and he was watching his whole philosophical world crumble in front of him. He passed, and his behaviour towards women (and the LGBT community) changed drastically. (Oxford commas intentional)

Now the problem with having a discussion or debate with an authoritarian on a specific topic is that you can't have a discussion or debate with an authoritarian at all - they'd flunk the course. Unlike my "star of the football team" colleague, they simply can't handle the tools. They wouldn't know cognitive dissonance if they tripped over it.

You want to change America? As soon as your kids are old enough (around age 14), teach them how to do a syllogism. That's immunize them!

[rudy23]

24. Intellect sometimes interferes with self serving logic.

The right is the party of survivalists. You'll hear many a Randbot elevate the concept of survivalism as if that is mankind at its purest. My reply is always, "Cockroaches are the best survivalists, does that make them better than us?"

But no, intellect sometimes gets in the way of their self serving rationalizations and Orwellian doublespeak. That's why it's the enemy.

[Clio the Leo]

25. And bless him, this is one reason why I'm not fond of Big Ed.....

.... he's a sweetheart, but he's missing the intellectual approach that the other three have. He's too shouty and yelly and if I wanted shouty and yelly, I'd be a Republican.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. But of course, what you imply is untrue.

Schultz is a graduate of Minnesota State University Moorhead. He is also not a right winger. Right wingers with no degree is the subject of the thread, so one wonders why Ed gets a kick in the nards in this context.

[eridani]

41. Ed is no polymath like Hartmann and Maddow, but he is raising holy populist hell on health care

I really appreciate him for that.

[DuaneBidoux]

50. I tried to find education info on Ed. I know he played college football but I couldn't pin down a

degree or graduation date. I certainly wasn't trying to leave him out, and would have posted regardless of what I had found if I could have found some solid info on his education. I do know he played college football (which of course means nothing) but that's all I could learn.

[Historic NY]

26. They were the kids that cheated in school & copied others work.

[Catshrink]

28. You're onto something here...

In my family, those of us (sibs, cousins) who are college graduates tend toward the left, those with a HS education are Palin-loving, Bible-banging RWers. It's sad.

[Yavin4]

34. Conservatives, Educated or Not, Do Not Want Their WorldView Challenged

Liberals are open to having their world view challenged if you have the factual evidence. For example, if our presence in Afghanistan was actually helping to create a stable nation and the evidence showed it, then Liberals would support it.

Intellectualism is open to having its worldview challenged whereas the right does not want their worldview challenged.

[AspenRose]

63. I think you're right. Critical thinking is key

It's not so much education as it is a willingness to REMAIN ignorant once presented with facts.

My republican husband has a PhD. He's not stupid or uneducated. He does exhibit willful ignorance, however, mainly because it threatens the worldview he grew up with. He's one of those "threatened white males," so there's the fear card. And he's stubborn.

Usually we cancel out each other's votes at election time. But this past election he stayed home and didn't vote. So maybe there's hope.

Also, Ann Coulter has a law degree. She's not stupid or ignorant, just too busy raking in money being an evil sellout. Ditto Pat Robertson, Michelle Malkin, David Horowitz, Walter Williams, Dinesh D'Souza and other conservative "intellectuals" like them.

[ShadowLiberal]

35. Yep, there's a strong correlation between being more educated and being more liberal

Studies have shown that there's a fairly strong correlation between how educated you are, and how liberal you are. Certainly this correlation isn't 100%,

It's because of that well educated, fairly wealthy, white working professionals have been becoming more and more democratic lately. The most ironic part about this is that many decades ago you know what was the GOP's strongest base of support (even if they were small in numbers)? Well educated fairly wealth white working professionals, that just goes to show how much the GOP has fallen in terms of attracting the educated.

Plus take a look at the richest and poorest states. Generally you'll find that the richest states (tending to be in the New England area) are generally much more democratic. At the same time the poorer states (see a lot of the deep south, like Mississippi), are generally much more republican.

[boppers]

36. Correlation is not causation, of course.

That being said, I find it amusing that the GOP tries to portray themselves as the party of the "common man", while seeking to keep the common man as uneducated, and thus unprofitable, as possible.

[DuaneBidoux]

83. I don't think ANYTHING is a simple matter of causation.

That doesn't mean that causation doesn't abound, however it is usually a part of the story as the story is much richer and more complex than humans imagine (and maybe more complex than they can imagine).

[Zoeisright]

37. I LOVE that quote; it's so true.

"Not all conservatives are ignorant, but all ignorant people are conservative."

[Manifestor_of_Light]

68. John Stuart Mill.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.



Stupidity is much the same the world over. A stupid person's notions and feelings may confidently be inferred from those which prevail in the circle by which the person is surrounded. Not so those whose opinions and feelings are emanations from their own nature and faculties. (Subjection of Women, Chapter I, p. 273)

[BlooInBloo]

39. The relative lack of education of conservatives has been long-known...

It's related to a lot of things: being predominantly southern, being religious, and other things.

In any case, dumb is an American trait generally - our side might on average be a bit brighter, but not a lot (I predict this would be even clearer, if you lopped off the top/bottom 1% from each side).

[opihimoimoi]

40. STUCK AT HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL.....Bwahahaha...little wonder their Bullyness and lack of knowledge..

[depakid]

42. Both intellectually- and in their levels of emotional maturity

[uponit7771]

44. Logical conclusions, worth taking a look at

[uponit7771]

46. ***FOLLOW UP**** Only 2% of US Scientist consider themselves to be conservative, 56%Liberal (link)

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=18273

[FlaGranny]

48. Evolution to liberalism

My paternal grandparents were hellfire and damnation Christians, maternal somewhat less so. Neither of my parents ever went past 8th grade. They went to work. My father rebelled against his religious upbringing and became an atheist and both parents became quite liberal. They raised 3 children, all of whom finished high school and are all liberals and all their children are liberals. My children are the only college graduates in the family though.

Interestingly, when our kids were growing up we never spoke to them much about politics. I believe they came by their liberalism because we raised them to be sensitive to others. We were always careful to show them how their actions affected others from the time they were old enough to grasp the concept - even before, actually. I really believe that's all it takes - real concern for others and not a fake concern like they give you in some churches. Doing good deeds in many churches seems to result in the do-gooders feeling self sufficient, smug, and superior. These same prideful do-gooders are against any effort to use tax dollars to provide services to poor people. It just does not compute in my liberal brain.

[Stephanie]

51. Beck took ONE COURSE, and he didn't finish it.

And he only got in with the help of Joe Lieberman.

[harun]

52. It is about exposure to ideas different than ones own and ones

willingness to rationally discuss them. The Conservative of today watches Fox News because it tells them what "they want" to hear. Not what is the truth, or different points of view to determine what is best.

This is exactly the thing Rush back in the 90's accused Liberals of doing. Now he is the embodiment of it.

[olegramps]

54. When I scan the radio stations while driving this is my experience:

You have to listen for a minute or so to determine if you are listening to some radical religious charlatan or to a Republican propagandist. They both sound the same and the content is not that much different. Thank God for CDs since the only stations that I seem to be able to find out on the highway are dominated by these a-holes.

[ipaint]

55. Michael Moore is a college drop out.

He's done more to educate the masses than all the degree holding liberals put together.

The best education in the world doesn't do anyone a damn bit of good without empathy.

[niceypoo]

56. Michael Moore does not disdain facts

I know plenty of people who did not go to college that read incessantly and are very intelligent and accurate. Republicans loathe facts, big difference.

Republicans attack anything and everything having to do with facts:
News
Education
Logic
Science

Anything you can name that has to do with truth and factual information is attacked and shunned by the right

[ipaint]

58. I'm not arguing that point.

I'm looking at the irony that for all the advantages of education it took a college drop out to reach out to the uneducated masses regardless of political stripe and include them.

If lack of education is the problem then it educating is the solution.

I'm glad the op at least acknowledges it can happen that an uneducated person can turn out to be "thinking" liberal despite all the supposed odds but it's important to note most major progressive labor and rights changes came from the uneducated working classes demanding change from the educated on both sides of the political aisle.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

60. That doesn't account for the Ivy League conservatives, who can be

every bit as mean (although in a more refined and wordy way) as the high school dropout Republicans.

I think one's environment and personality have a lot to do with it. I am one of three siblings. Two of us are left of center, while the third is a Republican. I attribute this to his being surrounded by Republicans who listen to talk radio on the job. Long-term brainwashing works.

[msallied]

62. This wasn't always the case. Conservative were intellectuals once.

It's only in the last thirty years or so that they've come to embrace the morons, because most people with brians ditched the ship after Reagan took over. When that's all you have left, you have no other choice but to start seeing virtue in ignorance.

[MidwestRick]

64. Flawed arguement...

Bill O'reilly - Master of Public Administration from Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government
Ann Coulter - She graduated cum laude from Cornell in 1984, and received her law degree from the University of Michigan Law School
Michelle Malkin - Engish/Oberlin College
Michael Medved - He entered Yale University as a sixteen-year-old undergraduate, and graduated with honors in 1969


all are well educated, but still idiots.

[Klukie]

66. I have little college and I am not offended at all....

You are exactly right and if I may be so bold, I will add to your assessment that many conservatives have an inferiority complex due to their lack of education. This complex leads to their ability to dismiss the value of a good education. They have intertwined ideology with education in order to advance their theory of the "Liberal education system". The Becks of the world have taken discussion to bizarro world because their inferiority has guided them to take facts and alter them and convince an equally uneducated mass that up is down. If altering facts were not bad enough they then proceed to use the fear factor to convince their followers that there is a widespread conspiracy among the "Educated Elite Liberals" to indoctrinate their children with lies and distortion. We need to hammer people with facts as much as we can in order to break the spell that they are under which is why I loved what Rep. Grayson did. He said something bold to get their attention and then he confidently hammered them with facts. He did not back down and that is a crucial aspect to snapping people back to reality. Perception is very important to the uneducated masses and if Grayson backs down or appears weak in any way, the argument will be lost.


Definition of Inferiority complex:

inferiority complex 

–noun 1. Psychiatry. intense feeling of inferiority, producing a personality characterized either by extreme reticence or, as a result of overcompensation, by extreme aggressiveness.
2. lack of self-esteem; feeling of inadequacy; lack of self-confidence.

[NoSheep]

74. Reply recommended!

:)

[Snarkoleptic]

71. Republiclowns celebrate ignorance.

Great book to read...
Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free
by Charles P. Pierce

Excerpt...
http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ0207GREETINGS

[TrogL]

75. authoritarians are anti-intellectual because it challenges their core beliefs

I had frequent arguments with my mother until we agreed to simply not discuss any issue except the weather (even that would lead to disagreements). The trumping point to any discussion with her was her exclaiming "oh, you're always thinking" to her, the ultimate insult.

She refuses to get a computer or email.

[NoSheep]

78. Batshit crazy Michele Bachmann voted NO on making it easier to go to college:

"On July 11, 2007, Bachmann voted against a bill that would raise the maximum Pell grant for college students from $4,310 to $5,200 by 2011, lower interest rates over five years on subsidized student loans to 3.4 percent from 6.8 percent, and raise federal student loan limits to $30,500 from $7,500. Supporters of the bill said "it would allow more students to attend college."

copied from Wikipedia...which in this case, is a good enough source.

[badgerpup]

79. Point of order, if I may...

'Education' doesn't necessarily equal 'attended/graduated from nstitute of higher learning'.

Education IMHO is actually be able to LEARN from your experiences, no matter where they are acquired.
College et al is a way to increase exposure to various schools of thought and disciplines in concentrated form...give an idea what's out there and how everything fits together.



Not everyone is able to benefit from this buffet (so to speak) of knowledge even when given access; it requires discipline and actually being willing to LEARN and experience something that's not yet on your list of "Stuff I've Done/Seen/Thought About/Seriously Considered/Escaped From."

Yes, I do have a particular person in mind. No names mentioned, but she attended FIVE colleges before attaining a degree and her memoir* (which her publisher gushed about her being 'very involved with') will be 'Going Rogue' on the nation's bookshelves soon...

:wtf:
WARNING: Abrupt Subject Veer and :rant:
Good gods. If one is an author and writing a memoir, isn't one supposed to be 'involved' with it?
I mean, isn't the whole point about BEING an author writing the thing in the first place?



*Main Entry: mem·oir
Pronunciation: \ˈmem-ˌwär, -ˌwȯr\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French memoire, from memoire memory, from Latin memoria
Date: 1571
1 : an official note or report : memorandum
2 a : a narrative composed from personal experience b : autobiography —usually used in plural c : biography
3 a : an account of something noteworthy : report b plural : the record of the proceedings of a learned society

[anonymous171]

80. Republicans are just wrong. They aren't stupid. They knnow what they are doing.

Do not underestimate them.

[DuaneBidoux]

84. I didn't say they were stupid--I mentioned that the big conservative commentators lacked education.

I know a physics professor who is extremely intelligent but still right wing. Education does more than make you smart. It makes you...well...educated. To begin to learn human origins. To start learning about the development of human culture. To begin to study philosophy, history, and art in depth in my estimation has an extremely LIBerating effect that tends to make on LIBeral. It is this wide exposure where I find the biggest difference between liberals and conservatives.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

85. Also - the "blue" states and areas tend to be better educated than the red.

Massachusetts has everyone beat when it comes to education. They always come out way on top when they do studies.

[zulchzulu]

88. I've been calling Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity college dropouts for years

It's true. They are basically stupid. As are most Republicans...

[ForeignSpectator]

94. You're on to something although I'd say missing education is more of a symptom than a cause...

... since being a college dropout can have so many reasons, from financial to personal to whatever. Judging from personal experience, if it proves anything, it proves how willing a person is to work their ass off for that piece of paper called diploma as in college, 90% is hard work, imo.

Another reason, a person might just decide a diploma is not worth devoting their intellectual resources to and channel their passion into something else, like the above-mentioned Michael Moore or Bill Gates or George Carlin who has never seen a college from the inside and said many of the most intelligent things I've heard all my life.
And as someone mentioned upthread, billo and coulter have degrees so that would also disprove your point.

You're definitely on to something though with the "safety for one's ego" which might also relate to (un)willingness to challenge oneself and to work harder or work at all, for a degree in that case.

Imo, it is intellectual vanity coupled with unwillingness to really THINK independently ( ->ideologies go unquestioned ) coupled with general fear ( ->aggression ) that gives you a RW nutcase on TV.

[DuaneBidoux]

103. Well, I probably too strongly equated "education" with college.

I recognize there is a difference. Someone can also be self educated in that they learn a lot on their own of what someone would learn with a broad university education.

But I do feel education starts moving one left. When I started my bachelors I came from a very conservative Republican family and considered myself a conversvative. In fact I joined the Young Republicans when I was a freshman. Now I realize I was just repeating the mantras I had learned growing up without thinking about what they meant.

Over the course of my bachelors degree, which was in anthroppology, I moved further and further left. By the time I had over two hundred university hours and a masters I was quite progressive.

For me anyway there is no doubt that learning history, literature, art, philosophy (I probably have a combined 120 hours in these topics) was responsible in large measure for my move toward liberalism.

I stand by most of my analysis although you make some great points. The question becomes what kind of degrees to Billo and Coulter have? I've found that anyone that doesn't broadly educate you won't make you liberal (engineering or any technical degree tends (and note I say TEND) to go this way.

[ForeignSpectator]

109. Yes, that's what I meant to say...

...I agree with your analysis, just the degree=education equation bothered me. And you're right, it broad education that's important, either self-taught or from college. Of the fields you listed, I'd pick philosophy as the one that influenced me the most.

What's unique to college is that you come into contact with all kinds of other people who hold different beliefs and convictions about things. So that can have an impact, too, provided you have an open-enough mind. ( no intellectual vanity )

But again, I'd say that education is more a symptom because the characteristics I mentioned determine if you're going to ( broadly ) educate yourself in the first place. There has to be a certain disposition, call it open mind or whatever, that clears the way for new information and then in turn it can transform you and nonsensical ( eg RW ) ideologies fall apart.

[DuaneBidoux]

105. Coulter studies Law, which if it were many kinds, including corporate law, means nothing

Billo studied History (an especially unusual degree to remain a conservative with). As I said my case is anecdotal and might deserve a study.

Maybe here is the way I would put it: not all educated people are liberals, but most liberals are educated (even if it is not in the formal university sense).

[Vinca]

96. I is a hi skool gradoooooate.

:fistbump: So how'd I end up here? I ought to be polishing my guns and painting mustaches on Obama signs.:rofl:

[On the Road]

100. I Do Believe You are Correct

Something like cognitive dissonance, in which people justify their past choices regardless of how good they were.

On the other hand, my father has a PhD (in a technical discpline) and watches Fox all day.

[DuaneBidoux]

104. No offense, but technical is not education.

I wish it were--in most European universities you can not get out of school without some history, literature, art, philosophy, etc.

[Feron]

101. Propaganda works. It's just that simple.

Propaganda feeds into comfortable delusions. In an ever-changing world, people want certainty. And especially in these times, people are rightfully scared. That's why they have a tendency to cling to familiar things such as religion. Memes such as "pulling up by your bootstraps" are popular because it gives the illusion that a person is in total control of his or her life. None of the messy stuff like the cost of an unexpected illness rendering a frugal person homeless.

An education does not necessarily make a person immune from propaganda or confirmation bias. And especially if a person isn't willing to ask a question that might lead to an answer contrary to the person's current opinion.

Also consider that our society has dramatically changed in the last 70 or so years. We've had a technological revolution, gays coming out of the closet and marrying, segregation ending and an African American becomes president, and women have entered the workplace en masse taking jobs that were traditionally male. That's a lot of change and the more rural and Southern areas are very resistant to change.

[Liberty Lover]

106. Bill Gates: college drop out

Look, getting a college education is a good thing. But it's not everything. Someone isn't inferior to you because they're not college educated. That's a very elitist view to have. You can learn a lot at college, but they can also "teach" you a lot. If you know what I mean. A lot of universities rely heavily on government funding. So isn't in their interest to promote big government ideologies and demonize small government ideologies? Perhaps one of the reasons why colleges are 90% left-leaning.

[WatchWhatISay]

108. Uh- no, don't know what you mean?

Like some kind of mind control or something?

[treestar]

113. Actually I think they are all inferior to me

I'm an elitist. :rofl:

Everyone with a lesser education than me is lesser educated.

What's wrong with an elite? Isn't that what Ayn Rand thought she and her John Galt buddies were?

:rofl:

You've obviously never been to college. Not once in my four years did I ever hear anything about big government ideologies. I took all kinds of courses. For instance, Music Appreciation 101. All about Mozart and Beethoven and not one word about big government!

I took courses on the History of England. Government was quite powerful in the era of Henry VIII.

I took Chemistry and there was not one word about big government. Calculus - same.

I took Astronomy and saw the stars through a big telescope. The instructor went on and on about light rays and light years and never mentioned the government.

In Literature classes I read Dickens and Shakespeare. Neither seemed to have anything to say about the American government. Neither did Jane Austen or George Eliot.

[DuaneBidoux]

118. I didn't say you could be successful with only a college degree. I'm not sure economic success comes

from a broad education.

In fact I sometimes wonder if education doesn't hurt ones chances of business success because you become less certain of a lot of things.

By the way, Gates has traditionally given to right wing causes in spite of his philanthropy. I believe his father however leans left.

[billh58]

119. Or could it

be that 90% (if that's a correct number) of college courses are taught by rational, educated, and caring people who reject irrational survival-of-the-fittest, right-wing, anti-social behavior? Could being "left-leaning" mean left of the radical right, but remaining somewhere near the center of thinking Americans? I am not aware of a mainstream non-religious university which "promotes" the size of an ideal government, nor aims at indoctrinating their students with a specific political ideology.

And no, "someone isn't inferior to you because they're not college educated," at least in a social sense. The lack of a college education, however, statistically reduces one's income potential over the course of a lifetime, with all of the disadvantages that implies. There are exceptions like Bill Gates, and many others, of course, but they are not the statistical rule. There are also many college grads who are currently driving taxis, and delivering pizzas. Chances are good, however, that a substantial percentage of them will eventually become taxi company managers, franchise owners, scientists, or educators.

[DuaneBidoux]

122. The ideal size of government for right wingers is less.

The ideal rate of taxation is less.

There is an underlying axiom in saying that tax cuts will fix everything: that axiom is that government is always the problem when anything has gone wrong and that simply decreasing it will fix the problem.

Of course there are people like Bill Gates who don't have a college degree but he (as I pointed out) nearly always gives to right wing candidates. I was never trying to make the point that education makes you more likely to succeed. I was trying to make the point that education makes you more liberal. I'm not even sure that this move left doesn't make it less likely for you succeed in business as it makes you less likely to be stomach some of the moves that business generally does.

Education isn't for exceptional people like Bill Gates, it is for average people (like me).

[billh58]

123. While I agree

with, and appreciate your response, you DO realize that I wasn't addressing you with my statement -- don't you?

[DuaneBidoux]

124. Actually I didn't realize anything either way--just typing away.

[TheKentuckian]

110. I think its even less complex than education

Conservatives seem to be wired to look for simplistic answers to everything. They have a burning need for lack of nuance or a broad view point in order to navigate through life. Its not even about education because it seems like they dig in with more schooling rather than expanding their perceptions.

I think they just despise education because it tends to open a person's horizons up and to them that is indoctrination.

[robo50]

121. That's a very interesting perspective, it's like asking ..why did

Glenn Beck and Limbuagh and others DROP OUT OF college?

Obviously, they had the intellectual capacity to get into college. They had the 100+ IQ and four or more years of high school learning.

But, for them, college represented more of a threat than an opportunity, more of a challenge to their personality type than a chance to make themselves more equipped for the world of adulthood.

I'd also be willing to guess that for ever Bill Gates, there are 1000 OTHER college drop-outs who are more like Glenn Beck or Limbaugh, without the $$$ radio and TV gave them, and THOSE 1000 other drop-outs are not very happy folks, ready to blame ANY one but themselves for the misery they see in life.

[TheKentuckian]

125. Correct, every moment spent in liberal arts is like the elven rope around Gollum's neck

You'll note that most of them that are educated go into the more rigid programs or attend crappy ideological schools started by theocrats. Most educated conservatives are engineers, MBA's, and if they are pretty brainy economics. They need lots of If-Then thought processes to navigate the world.

[DuaneBidoux]

126. I'm the OP and for me is wasn't like that. As liberals of course we must admit it is complex.

When I entered college I was a far right wing guy coming from a far right fundamentalist family. But with every college hour I took I became a little less sure of many things I had taken for granted. About 220 hours later and holding a masters I was the kind of guy that was comfortable with gays (I had been super homophobic before)and the kind of guy who was very comfortable right here at DU. So formal education can make a big difference and I believe it does--it certainly did for me.

Of course if one enters Liberty "University" the result is not likely to be the same.

[TheKentuckian]

127. It can but it sounds like you weren't an native ideologue but rather a product of environment

I bet you started with a real desire to expand your knowledge rather than to reinforce it. You had a mentality that allowed your own ideas to be challenged and either strengthened or changed depending on how they stood up to arguments.

I don't so much disagree with your OP as think it was more a symptom than a cause, though it is some of both. The disdain for intellectual pursuit has a lot to do with fear of exactly what happened to you but that fear is based in no small part from a mentality that holds concepts so sacred (or to my mind the opposite because any idea worth believing in is worth holding up to debate) that they rankle at the idea, reject discovery, and then generally want to "shield" or "protect" others from such assaults.

This is all kind of a chicken or the egg thing, I just am siding a little more towards egg. I think the innately ideological conservatives hate knowledge because deep down they fear it won't hold up to the light of day so they run from correction while attempting to keep the light from shining on as many as possible.

Fear is the mind killer.

Fear is more internal than projected I believe but that internal fear tends to drive a person to share it with as many as possible. That's what Hannity and company are doing, running around the classroom with their fingers in their ears while yelling at the top of their voices to make sure no one can hear the teacher or even think enough to read the textbooks. That's what the unbelievably wacky and more inconceivably still existing "Footloose" types do. That's the whole lot in life of the neocons and the theocrats.

I'm sorry I really should have made my point an "in addition to" rather than a "no this is right and you are wrong" thing obviously since even now I'm adding a factor rather than drilling down on even the one I made too but as you've seen there is some difference between a child brought up right wing and a grown up right winger and especially an adult Reich Winger.
I'm thinking regardless of education (though knowledge is power and has it's impact) that with life experience and reasonably open minds plenty of people leave right wing homes and give up a lot of these childish ideas along with childhood.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

128. They don't care about education as long as they're making hundreds of millions of dollars!

They've always had a disdain for education, particularly public education! They don't care about it as long as they are NOW making money off being stupid. That's the irony.

[mnhtnbb]

129. My brother is an MD, Ph.D. and solid Republican. I appealed

to his identity as a scientist in 2004, trying to get him to at least not vote for Bush even if he wouldn't vote for Kerry. It didn't work. One of his sons told me not too long ago that the only thing he responds
to is taxes.

[DuaneBidoux]

130. One can go all the way through an MDs education and get not once ounce of education

Between physiology and biochemistry etc. one is essentially learning a sophisticated vo-tech.

I pretty much don't count any kind of "skills" degrees such as MD, engineer, computer programming, etc. as "education" in the sense that I mean it, that is to say a broad exposure to art, history, social science, philosophy, etc. That doesn't mean I have anything against that kind of learning.

It looks like my son may become a chemist--but I am pleading with him and telling him that I will let his degree last six years and support him if he will spend two years getting some humanities and liberal arts.

[Honeycombe8]

132. I'm a college dropout. I'm not offended. I've always found the wingnut aversion to education

and intelligence odd and nonsensical. I could never figure out WHY. My dad wingnut also believes that way, and remains silent when I point out that he has an unusually high IQ and was valedictorian at his high school (he was a college dropout...underachiever....his wife my mom got preggers).

So maybe wingnuts are UNDERACHIEVERS who are jealous of those who have achieved, ESPECIALLY in the face of obstacles (like Sotomayor?)?

It doesn't make sense to me.