Would you vote to allow Gitmo detainees to be held in a supermax prison in your state?

[jenmito]

I don't understand why so many people (and politicians) ;) don't want the detainees to be housed in a supermax prison in their state (if they have one). Don't they realize prisons are built to hold dangerous people? Not to mention, many of the detainees are merely suspected terrorists and not proven guilty of ANYTHING, and may have just been "turned in" by people who wanted money. The RWers sure seem to have succeeded in scaring people into wanting Gitmo to stay open!

[Cant trust em]

1. Who would I rather have in a prison in my backyard?

A suspected terrorist, or a convicted rapist?

[jenmito]

I would say the latter. n/t

[Cant trust em]

5. I would agree.

[Posteritatis]

71. I'd prefer a convicted anything to a suspected anything in any prison

That said, if the US is adamant that it just has to keep these guys locked up, then on US soil, under US law, and physically closer to what there is of a justice system is probably preferable to the nice little Caribbean gulag they've got right now.

[T Wolf]

2. A better solution is to have them bunk with repuke politicians in THEIR homes. Must keep them

off the streets and only the pukes can protect us.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

10. Only if you shut off the running water first.

just sayin'

[BREMPRO]

50. that's a good idea. A buddy system or like the big brother program

they can teach them how to be corporate criminals instead of fighting for their honor.

[high density]

3. Yes and I say that with family members that work in a supermax prison.

Not a concern.

[jenmito]

6. Thank you. I can't believe some people have such a problem with it that

they'd rather the detainees stay in Gitmo and continue hurting our reputation around the world.

[napi21]

4. There's a prison about 10 mins from my house. It's not a

SM but there are a kit if hard core criminals housed there. Actually, you're safer loiving close to a SM facility than a std. prison. Noone has ever escaped from a SM, but they sure have escaped from regular prisons & do it all the time.

[jenmito]

8. I used to live about 10 min. (or less) from a prison, too.

It never even crossed my mind to be afraid. And like you said, people HAVE escaped from "regular" prisons but NEVER from a supermax prison. :shrug:

[rebel with a cause]

44. I live within a few miles of what was one of the nations largest

super-max prisons and I have no idea where it is. :rofl:

It is now a medium security prison. Then there is Menard Correctional Center which is Maximum to Medium security prison. There are plenty of other prisons around here that I don't know anything about. But if you listen on TV you will hear the Marion State prison and Menard CC mentioned a lot when it comes to dangerous criminals. So, I would have less problems with a Gitmo prisoner being sent here than I had with John Wayne Gacy and other killers.

[treestar]

7. Yes, they are even accused on less ground than criminal defendants

are. There's not even probable cause, so far as we know.

[jenmito]

9. Exactly.

It never ceases to amaze me that so many people don't want them in their prisons.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

11. The closer they are to my home...

...the less likely they are to hang-out around my house if they were to escape.

just sayin'

[jenmito]

13. True.

Good point. Why would they escape and then stay around?

[sarge43]

12. We have convicted Repubs in our local slam.

That's scary, not some poor slub who was the wrong color and in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[jenmito]

14. That IS scary...

much more so then people swept up accidentally in many cases.

[MidwestRick]

15. If the likes of Manson

Can be held for years without them being able to spread their bile to other prisoners, why can't a convicted terrorist, or unconvicted terrorist at that?

[jenmito]

21. Exactly!

I have no idea.

[eleny]

16. Yes

There's such a prison here in Colorado and I'm all for it.

Timothy McVeigh was housed in a prison in the Denver Metro area and nobody batted an eye.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

17. I voted no.

It's not that supermax prisons are easy to escape from, because they're not.

But most detainees haven't been convicted, even though some are truly nasty people. So if they come to my state, they get enough legal rights to make them a pain in the butt. We would get to pay for all their court costs, in addition to the free health care and chow they get now.

Take them to Iraq, let them go, then get all our troops out. Just end these wars.

[jenmito]

19. Nobody has EVER escaped from s supermax prison.

And what do you mean by gettomg "enough legal rights to make them a pain in the butt"? You pay for prisoners NOW. What's the problem/difference?

And why should we take them to Iraq? What if they came from Afghanistan?

[appleannie1]

37. So, are you willing to get them a passport so they can go home to whatever country is home?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

55. Not fair on either the guilty or the innocent.

I don't want to see those who are guilty of criminal offences released, and I don't want to see those who aren't deported to Iraq.

There may be some people in Guantanamo bay who are guilty of minor offences but not serious ones, for whom "convinct them, but since they've already been in jail for years they've already effectively served their time" is an appropriate response, but I suspect that most of them are either genuine dangerous terrorists or innocent people who have been mistaken for dangerous terrorists, and I don't think "turn them loose in Iraq without any further support" is a good thing to do with either of those categories.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

79. Are any of them guilty?

Have they been found guilty by a jury of peers? That's usually one of the prerequisites for entry into a supermax (or any other) prison in my state (and probably most others, too). If they are brought to this country, they will probably be eligible for a fair trial, and without evidence, even the dangerous terrorists will get released.

If released, where do they go? Onto the streets, or deported?

I think they deserve POW treatment. Declare the wars over, and ship them home.

:hi:

[hedgehog]

18. You need an option for people who think that SuperMax

is torture since it involves solitary confinement.

[jenmito]

20. No, I don't. Just say "no" and explain the reason...

if that's your reason.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

22. Honest question:

Should supermax's be outlawed, period?

[mkultra]

25. yes. The shoud be help in an open field with no walls or fences.

[Hippo_Tron]

87. Well throwing them into general population is a death sentence

But I see no reason they couldn't have cellmates.

[deerheadgal]

23. Perhaps it would be OK...

...but shouldn't they be tried and convicted first? Just askin'

[abelenkpe]

24. My son is five

He often plays this game with me where we imagine the Decepticons are coming and we devise a teamwork plan to stop and capture them. The other day I told him we needed to get the stasis cuffs (aka his sister's cheap plastic bracelets) so we could take Megatron to jail after we caught him. And he said in all seriousness: "No mommy. He'd just break out again. We have to take away his power and turn him off permanently."

Apparently many adults feel this way about those held at gitmo. Do they think they have super powers? If so, why are they still locked up?

[jenmito]

26. Great story...

and comparison to those who have an irrational fear of these people. :hi:

[Toasterlad]

27. Any Regular Prison Would Do.

As someone - maybe John Stewart - pointed out, they're not fucking Lex Luthor. They're not supervillains. They're criminals (presumably) who should be treated like criminals. Why would it be necessary to treat them any differently than any other murderer?

[Quantess]

28. "they're not fucking Lex Luthor"

Does Lex Luthor know he's missing out on all that ass-pounding sex? :hide:

[Toasterlad]

30. Believe Me...You're Only Fucking Lex Luthor If Lex Luthor Wants to Be Fucked

He isn't Superman's arch-nemesis for nothing.

[jenmito]

31. I agree...

but the politicians are caving to the Repub. scare tactics.

[backscatter712]

29. The Supermax in Florence is open for business.

Speaking as a Coloradan, we'll take 'em.

We've already got 'em - Ramzi Yousef, a bunch of other '93 WTC bombing convicts, the shoe-bomber Richard Reid, Zacarias Moussaoui of 9/11 infamy, a bunch more Al Qaeda members...

There's plenty of room for more!

[jenmito]

32. That would be great...

it's a shame our politicians are such wimps.

[niyad]

76. you know, I live down the road from dobson and haggard--frankly--THEY worry me much more than

whoever is in supermax.

[ieoeja]

33. For shits and giggles I will point out the sole valid reason not to.

It's not enough for me to vote "no", but it is a valid concern even though I've never heard the Rightists make it (probably because they would rather we agree with their reasons than with their policy). If you were looking to recruit domestic members for your terrorist activities, a domestic jail would be the ideal spot.


Does your own government mistreat you? Do people on the street hate and despise you? Has noone ever given you a fair shake?

If your answer to any or all of these questions is 'fuck yeah' then we can help you. Come join Al Qaeda. We can provide you the weapons, materials and training to pay all them bitches back! Just come on down to cell block C and ask for Maquan.

Must be 18 years or older with at least one conviction for a violent crime to qualify. No drug possession only entrants need apply. Serious applicants only.

[Phx_Dem]

34. Absofuckinglutely! They are no more dangerous than serial killers or

mass murders who walk into schools or places of business and shoot everyone in site. Remember the "vampire" killer in L.A. a decade or so ago. He snuck into people's homes late at night while they were all sleeping, killed them in the most gruesome ways and drank their blood. He's in a California prison today. How is a terrorist scarier than him or any of the other psychos being held in prisons? Plus, no one has ever escaped from a max security prison.

Republicans are fucking cowards.

[jenmito]

35. Thank you.

Why are so many politicians irrational cowards?

[Phx_Dem]

36. Comforting to know our politicans are such cowards, isn't it?

[jenmito]

39. It sure isn't!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

38. I would have no problem with it. John Wayne Gacy was kept and executed near where i went to school

My school was near Statesville. I somehow survived.

[jenmito]

40. We need testimonials from people like you in ads to try to get people

to think rationally.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

41. I think part of it is fear of "the other"

The way people used to be afraid of black men because they were supposedly bigger and stronger and according to Ron Paul's newsletter "fleet footed"--they were stereotyped as being more animal than man.

I think people stereotype these detainees the same way. They're not mere mortals anymore, they're something else.

[jenmito]

43. I agree...

I just wish Dems. would fight back against the Repubs. who put out ads talking about how if Obama has his way, terrorists will be coming to a neighborhood near you instead of buying into their narrative.

Was that Ron Paul newsletter recent?

[Clio the Leo]

42. A dear friend of mine works in one ..... send them on up! NT

[montessorimama]

45. I live in SC and we already housed a "terrorist" suspect

Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri, a terrorist suspect, was already housed on a naval brig in South Carolina. Al-Marri had been held as an “enemy combatant” for more than seven years, though the government didn't charge him with a crime.

[jenmito]

49. And you mean he didn't escape and blow up buildings? And he didn't somehow get

people on the outside to blow up the jail? I guess it's not that big of a deal afterall! Thanks for the post.

[bigwillq]

46. Yes (nt)

[ipaint]

47. If they are actually found guilty of something in court. n/t

[Zavulon]

48. I voted 'no' only because I'm not sure of one issue...

...who picks up the tab? From a completely selfish standpoint, if the state pays the tab I'd rather have another one do it rather than my own. Besides, Maryland has more scandals with poorly-run prisons than any state east of California.

Based on the actual intent of the OP, I'd have voted 'yes.' My sole objection, assuming it's even applicable, is that Maryland is so fucked that I don't want to pay for it. As for the actual location of the prisoners if money isn't an issue, I don't care where they go - Maryland or any other state.

[alsame]

51. "On American soil" is the talking point used by

the GOP to scare people. They make it sound like these detainees are going to be strolling through neighborhoods. And gullible people freak out and start objecting.

I'm willing to bet there are some very dangerous criminals housed in prisons in my state and it hasn't been a problem.

[jenmito]

53. Exactly...

as if they're going to be in kids' playgrounds. I wish the DEMS. weren't so gullible-but they apparently ARE.

[Mz Pip]

52. I live near San Quentin

Lots of mean mofers there.

Charles Manson may still be there. I've heard he converted to Christianity so maybe he'll convert some of those terrorists if they're living in the same place. That should make the fundies happy. I am only being slightly sarcastic. Maybe.

[jenmito]

54. The detainees are supposedly

going to be in solitary confinement, so I doubt they'd have the chance to be converted. But another talking point of the RWers is that the detainees will convert other inmates to become jihadists, making it even MORE dangerous for them to be here. :eyes:

[Fire1]

56. Our state has already volunteered. We need the money. n/t

[jenmito]

57. Which state? Because MI changed their minds. n/t

[Fire1]

58. Really? Haven't heard that. Any links so I can catch up? n/t

[jenmito]

59. Here:

http://www.freep.com/article/20091015/NEWS06/91015053/1008/NEWS06/Standish-council-backs-off-welcoming-Gitmo-inmates#pluckcomments Someone posted it on another thread.

[Fire1]

60. Thanks so much, jen! I googled but couldn't find the latest. n/t

[jenmito]

61. No problem!

:hi:

[lunatica]

62. How many times do we hear of prison breaks in our country?

[jenmito]

63. NEVER from a supermax prison.

[Harry Monroe]

73. That show was cancelled after 3 seasons!

[Politicalboi]

64. But the cost

Of housing Bush could be astronomical.

[Lyric]

65. Why would I care? It's a supermax prison.

It's not like they're gonna be wandering around, and even if someone managed to escape, I highly doubt that they're gonna stick around.

[jenmito]

66. Exactly...

I wish the politicians felt that way.

[vaberella]

67. I'm a New Yorker and I'd vote them in our prisons. They'd be miserable.

Our prisons make Oz look like a teaparty on the Golden Girls.

[jenmito]

69. So would I...

even though the politicians say they'd be in solitary confinement. They should be allowed to be put in whichever prisons are available so we could finally close Gitmo.

[Vidar]

68. Of course.

[alcibiades_mystery]

70. I would have them housed in a regular prison

What kind of fucking cowards and cretins are populating this discussion? I mean, truly. We pay billions of dollars for prisons, but we can't house these particular guys because they're so big bad and scary. Fucking PLEASE.

It's fucking

a) RACISM

and

b) stupid motherfucking bullshit.

[TheKentuckian]

72. I'm not saying that these people deserve or need to be in a Supermax but

better there than some offshore gulag.

[Harry Monroe]

74. I vote no. Let them be houseguests of Bush and Cheney!!

[niyad]

75. considering who is already in the supermax down the road from me, it wouldn't bother me in the least

might clean up our reputation around the world just a bit.

[jenmito]

77. Thank you. Do you know if your Senators are against it?

[niyad]

80. actually, I don't know, will have to check. but both of them have been very disappointing lately

and I spend a lot of time insisting that they vote for real health care reform.

[quakerboy]

78. Neither Option seems to fit my inclinations

I have no problem with having a convicted terrorist in a prison in my state. But I would rather not have any innocents subjected to incarceration. And I'm not convinced that many or even most of the ones we detained are guilty. So...

[Generator]

81. Of course

If they can handle serial killers than I think they can handle al queda. (or whatever they claim to be)

[PopSixSquish]

82. Just a Few of the "Lovely Folks" Who are Currently Held at ADX Florence Colorado

Anthony Casso 16802-050 Mobster and former underboss of the Lucchese crime family

Wadih el-Hage 42393-054 Conspirator in the 1998 United States embassy bombings

Matthew F. Hale 15177-424 White supremacist leader; convicted of soliciting the murder of a federal judge

Larry Hoover 86063-024 Leader of the Gangster Disciples Nation based in Chicago

Jeff Fort 92298-024 Co-founder of the Black P. Stones gang in Chicago, and founder of its El Rukn faction

Theodore Kaczynski 04475-046 The "Unabomber"

Juan Matta-Ballesteros 37671-133 Drug trafficker, co-conspirator in the Enrique Camarena case

Zacarias Moussaoui 51427-054 Conspirator in the September 11, 2001 attacks

Terry Nichols 08157-031 Oklahoma City bombing conspirator

Richard Colvin Reid 24079-038 Islamic terrorist, nicknamed the "Shoe Bomber"

Eric Robert Rudolph 18282-058 Convicted of the 1996 Olympic Park bombing

Dwight York 17911-054 Leader of the Nuwaubians; convicted for child molestation, racketeering and financial reporting charges

Ramzi Yousef 03911-000 Islamic terrorist, 1993 World Trade Center bombing

Timothy McVeigh (deceased) 12076-064 Oklahoma City bombing (executed on June 11, 2001)

Kenneth "Supreme" McGriff 26301-053 Drug trafficker and organized crime figure

H. Rap Brown 99974-555 Civil rights activist convicted of murdering a Fulton County, Georgia, deputy Sheriff

Andrew Fastow 14343-179 Former Enron CFO convicted of securities fraud, located in minimum security tract

Thomas Silverstein 14634-116 Convicted of murdering Federal Correctional Officer Merle E. Clutts

Luis Felipe 14067-074 Founder of the New York chapter of the Almighty Latin Kings and Queens Nation

Howard Mason 24651-053 Drug trafficker who ordered the murder of police officer Eddie Byrne

Barry Mills 14559-116 Leading member of the Aryan Brotherhood

Jose Padilla 20796-424 Convicted of aiding terrorists

Michael Swango 08352-424 American surgeon and serial killer; convicted of 3 fatal poisonings, with allegedly many more unproven

Mahmud Abouhalima 28064-054 Islamic Mujahideen leader, 1993 World Trade Center bombing implication and conviction

Robert Hanssen 48551-083 Former senior FBI agent serving life for espionage


Interesting that the majority of these inmates weren't convicted of terrorism charges....

[jenmito]

90. Yeah, but all that was before the Repubs. started scaring people...

including Dem. politicians. It's ridiculous that they won't allow the detainees in our prisons.

[undeterred]

83. If we have the adequate facilities, I have no problem with it at all.

[slackmaster]

84. As long as the federal government pays for it, I'm OK with it

More money for my state.

[winyanstaz]

85. and if they were to be housed in the states..

then of course they would be forced to give them a trial...that's the problem because if they all went to trial..they would have to explain why they have been holding and torturing innocent people...and why there are only people fighting for their own nation to be free in their prisons.
It would be embarrasing to explain the lack of actual "al-ciada" in the jails..and besides...they would probably have to give those shepards and cave dwellers some money for the crimes they have done against them.

[Hippo_Tron]

86. Somehow a prison full of people that don't even speak English doesn't really concern me

I would imagine that if they somehow managed to escape they wouldn't get very far.

[depakid]

88. Why a supermax?

Haven't these detainees been tortured quite enough?

[jenmito]

89. Because that's the only kind politicians are even THINKING about. n/t

[old mark]

91. We don't have "supermax" prisons in PA - we do have overcrowded

gang infested shitholes that would have the terrorists begging to go back to Gitmo.Think Greaterford.......


mark