Did Dean really say...

[wyldwolf]

The American people have centrist tendencies?

Really?

I can't count the number of times a Dean supporter has said centrists were bad. Centrists needed to leave the party. How many times I've been called a centrist here on DU with the same vitriolic tone used to call me a liberal by people on the right.

"If you look at the caucuses system, they are dominated by the special interests, in both sides, in both parties. The special interests don't represent the centrist tendencies of the American people. They represent the extremes."

I'm slightly left of center, but still proud to be a centrist! Thanks for the vote of confidence, Mr. Dean!

[maddezmom]

1. where the link?

:) need the full context.

[wyldwolf]

2. link

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040109_1524.html

The broadcast filmed in Montreal, "The Editors," covered U.S. and Canadian politics. NBC News reviewed 90 of Dean's appearances on the show since 1996 and first reported his comments about the caucuses Thursday night.

On the Canadian program, Dean said: "If you look at the caucuses system, they are dominated by the special interests, in both sides, in both parties. The special interests don't represent the centrist tendencies of the American people. They represent the extremes."

[maddezmom]

3. thanks

;)

[REP]

4. Did I Hallucinate 8 Years of Centrist Clinton?

Clinton was a centrist. People seemed to vote for him. But then again, Dean is Satan's very own spawn, so who knows?

[wyldwolf]

5. This isn't a knock against Dean at all. He is a centrist as am I...

... I'm just pointing out a statement he has made that is contrary to the beliefs of many of his supporters.

I'm slightly left of center, but still proud to be a centrist! Thanks for the vote of confidence, Mr. Dean!

[REP]

6. Say WHAT?

I can't speak for all his supporters, but I don't know a single one who think he's an extreme leftist. I know lots of people who think another candidate is a laughable extreme leftist, and they're not supporting him (very few are).

[wyldwolf]

7. Not sure what you mean...

My point is there are Dean supporters on DU who don't believe the American people are basically centrists.

There are Dean supporters on DU who think we can win with just the far left vote.

There are also Dean supporters on DU from the far left fringe who thinks Dean is one of them.

I could name you a boat load of them, but the post would be deleted for "calling out" other DU'ers.

Of course, this is a small contingent of them and definitely not representative of his overall support.

[REP]

13. I Doubt The Far Left are Backing Dean

The hard-core far-left have hitched their wagon to someone else. Considering how small a group that is, I doubt their vote for or against Dean would make much difference.

As for thos for Dean who think he's an extreme leftie - well, it's possible that they have ideas different from your or mine of an extreme leftie is. In comparison to the current administration, he could look radical to some.

[bowens43]

19. Do you have a link to a post

in which DUers are claiming we can win with only far left voters? I haven't seen anyone claim that.

[wyldwolf]

22. oops! Tactical mistake on my part...

I didn't bookmark and categorize the countless electorate discussions I've had on DU with some Dean supporters who have made that claim - the most recent being someone who said Dean will win because the greens will unite behind him so we don't need the moderate vote.

Oh, well, I know how to contact you so when it comes up again, I'll PM you on it.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

8. from a dean blog......

http://www.politicalpunk.com/~politica/politicalpunkfordeanarchive/000130.php
"Howard Dean is not a liberal – or so say the liberals who know him best in his home state of Vermont. Oh really, his supporters knew this a longtime ago.

Vermont liberals say Dean's governing history suggests more of a political tactician, a strategic opportunist who will ultimately run a campaign that inspires the middle as well as the left. Dean -- who gained early momentum with his staunch anti-war talk -- has sought recently to broaden his rhetoric and become known for something other than anti-war diatribes.

"Dean a liberal? It's ludicrous. Ludicrous!" says Peter Freyne, a writer for the Burlington, Vt., alternative weekly Seven Days, which has taken Dean to task in recent years for, among other things, opposing the legalization of medical marijuana. "He was always Mr. Law and Order. This is a guy who grew up in Manhattan, the son and grandson of people who worked on Wall Street. He's not from Ben and Jerry's Birkenstock land."

Freyne said people are giving too much credence to Dean's war opposition, as though that alone is enough to qualify him as a flaming liberal. "It's a bit odd, isn't it, that someone who is against a very questionable military invasion is by definition a liberal?" Freyne says.

When people start taking a serious look at Gov. Dean, they will see themselves in the mirror. He is fiscally conservative and socially progressive. Most polls point to this as being the "middle". This whole idea of "tax and spend" liberals has been diminished. We are people who believe in spending within our means. Check the article out!

[wyldwolf]

9. Of course!

My point entirely.

Dean is a centrist - a very hated word among some Dean supporters on DU (they usually apply the word in a derogatory manner to Wesley Clark.)

[kerry-is-my-prez]

10. Dean: Progressives hate me because they're all big liberals & I'm not

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dean/dean0702/deanintpt3.html
"Anthony (Pollina) ran against me last year; he's a Progressive; the Progressives hate me because they're all big < > liberals and I'm not and I've stopped them on many occasions."

[wyldwolf]

12. Right. Some Dean supporters didn't get the memo

[kerry-is-my-prez]

14. Dean says he was repelled by the burgeoning (Progressive) movement

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/22/a_meteoric_rise_in_vermont_politics/

-snip-

Within this upheaval, Dean entered political life. He certainly might have joined with progressives. They were more open, without longtime members dictating candidates and party positions. And Dean had linked up with progressives when he worked to create a bikepath along Burlington's lakefront. But Dean says he was repelled by the burgeoning movement.

"There was a certain doctrinaire attitude among some of the progressives that turned me off," Dean said. "There are a lot of good guys that support the Progressive Party but at the core of the Progressive Party was this group of people who basically said if you were not with us 100 percent, you were not good enough."

[wyldwolf]

17. if you were not with us 100 percent, you were not good enough

Mirrors Michael Moore's statements about the "professional left's" opposition to Wesley Clark.

http://www.liberalresurgent.com/mooreclark.mp3

[bowens43]

21. Micheal Moore is dead wrong on this one.

Clark is no Democrat, never was, never will be. A Clark nomination would have the effect of obliterating any distinction between the two parties. Maybe Moore is willing to give up on the party for a win, many of us are not. Clarks not even 50%.

[SahaleArm]

That message was brought to you by the professional left n/t

[wyldwolf]

26. bwahahahahahaha!

Good one.

[wyldwolf]

24. Perhaps you have proof of this?

[bowens43]

28. You've seen it .

It's been posted here many times but those who support Clark just spin it away. Calling one's self a Democrat doesn't make one a Democrat. His history tells us that at best he is an independent who leans heavily to the right.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

20. Dean: "If I win the nom. I won't be talking like (a Progressive).

http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml
International Socialist Review Issue 32, November–December 2003
The Dean Deception
By KEITH ROSENTHAL

-snip-

"The pain for Vermonters will be real"
Though he has been dubbed a "raging liberal" by admirers and critics alike, Howard Dean governed Vermont strictly within the framework of the conservative Democratic Leadership Council.

Many people on the Vermont left see Dean’s current posture as politically motivated. "The notion that he is a liberal is ludicrous to those of us who worked with him in Vermont," said Terrill Bouricius, a former state representative.4 Dean admits that he recognized early on that the popular anger at Bush is "a raw energy, an energy that I know could be channeled."5

Back in February 2003, Dean candidly admitted to Salon magazine that if he were to win the nomination of his party he would "probably dispense with some of the more rhetorical flourishes. One time I said the Supreme Court is so far right you couldn’t see it anymore. Next summer I won’t be talking like that. It’s true and I’m not ashamed to have said it, but it doesn’t sound very presidential."6

But such political maneuvering is nothing new for Dean. Upon becoming governor of Vermont in 1991, after the sudden death of then-Republican Governor Richard Snelling, Dean made a sharp turn to the right and pursued that course ever since. In his 11 years as governor, Dean would shift rightward on one position after another, all the while claiming to be concerned for the needy and less-fortunate, and disappointing all who thought they were getting someone who would govern from the liberal end of the political spectrum.

-snip-

[kerry-is-my-prez]

11. He attended the 1964 Republican Convention

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/22/a_meteoric_rise_in_vermont_politics/

No lightning bolt into politics Dean has trouble pinpointing the moment he became interested in politics. He says it might date to the dinner table, where his father held forth with critiques of Nelson Rockefeller and praise for Barry Goldwater. It might have been observing his father manage the campaigns of Representative Stuyvesant Wainwright II, Dean's godfather. Or perhaps the 1964 Republican Convention, which he attended in California while visiting a prep school friend.

"I wish I could give you a strident answer like, `I was such an admirer of JFK that I committed myself,' " Dean said. "But that didn't happen."

[wyldwolf]

15. hmmmm...

Now if Clark had did that, he would be seized upon.

But I have no problem with it. I explored many different viewpoints before politics were settled.

I'd probably go to a RNC right now just to do opposition research.

[REP]

16. Wow! 40 Years Ago is Just Like Three Months Ago!

Nothing has changed AT ALL in the past 40 years! Nothing, I tell you, NOTHING.

And what a person does at age 16 is what they'll do FOREVER.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

23. Kind of like how one of the candidates voted for Reagan 20 years ago...

It's especially humorous because he goes around calling other Dems way to the left of him (Kerry) Bush-lite.

[wyldwolf]

25. Are you referring to Clark or Dean...

I don't recall Clark calling anyone Bush lite. I think I must have misunderstood your post. Dean, right?

[realdem]

18. DLC isn't Centrist they are sellouts

There is a difference

[wyldwolf]

27. I disagree but that is another discussion...

Maybe you should explain your position to like-minded souls who think all centrists are DLC.

[Skinner]

29. I'm locking this. (PLEASE READ)

I think it is really not appropriate to start threads like this:

"Did Candidate X really (insert inflammatory thing here)?"

Now, I understand that sometimes people are actually looking for information. However, most of the time when someone does this, it doesn't appear that they are looking for information at all. They're just trying to find a sneaky way to make a rude claim about a candidate without providing any supporting evidence or context.