Here's why I think bush is now officially (unless he steals it) OVER!

[malachibk]

He demanded 3 debates so long as the first one was about Iraq -- the only subject with which he could feasibly hoodwink "middle-America". He would exceed his lead in the polls and Kerry would scramble, stumble and lose.

Well, bush lost. In a much bigger way than I anticipated last night.

The next debates concern domestic issues. bush is about to get DEMOLISHED. Kerry will simply need to detail his steadfast, unwavering, never even approximated a "f-f" views on...

women's right to choose

the environment

bush's "tax relief" (I think Kerry should directly ask him "Which Americans feel relieved? Who, George, have you relieved?") or something like that

jobs

education

stem cell research

etc

Bush has nothing. And now people are a bit more willing to listen to Kerry and dismiss some of the repub horseshit. More listening = more opportunity to realize what a dimwitted ASSHOLE their "president" is!

So, unless bush steals it (and let's be honest, he could) or Kerry misspeaks about gay marriage, Kerry will win.

[donco6]

1. That is, if debates mean anything to anyone.

I'm beginning to wonder if people care if their president has a brain at all.

[malachibk]

3. 61,000,000 people watched

They have to mean somehting to someone

[glitch]

8. not counting the cspan watchers - I really wish I knew those numbers nt

[iwantmycountryback]

18. I was one of them

Not about to give ratings to the corporate whores. Besides the split screen was better.

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

40. I liked CSPAN too

cause of the split screen. I liked watching Bush's reactions and also watched Kerry's.

[PermanentRevolution]

42. C-SPAN...

A couple thousand of us at Miami Arena. They were showing the debates on the jumbotron, C-SPAN feed.

[donco6]

33. You're right.

I was just feeling a little deflated that so many people think the match was "close." That just seems crazy to me. Were they watching the same thing? Bush was monumentally horrible! No question!

But if that many people were interested enough to watch - you're right, it had to have made an impact on some of them.

[dansolo]

49. Bush was worse when he was speaking

Forget about his facial contortions. He was incoherent through most of his answers.

[SammyWinstonJack]

35. Yes

And I am betting that the majority tuned in to see what Kerry was about, since Americans have had 3+ years to get their fill of Blinky's evil agenda.

[FrozenNorth]

16. If Kerry had choked...

Would you have changed your vote? If he had stuttered and faltered would you have not voted for him? Debates mean only so much, my mind was made up long before the debate, nothing said there would have changed my mind, don't assume Bush voters are any different. It's all about issues, not about showmanship or glib speaking abilities. Thankfully he did well but I wouldn't have cared if he "failed".

[Jane Austin]

24. What if one's support of Bush was based on the meme that

Bush is a great leader, a straight talker, a person comfortable in his own skin, and nobody's puppet.

His entire performance last night put the lie to that.

If those were your reasons, you might rethink your support.

[malachibk]

26. I'm not expecting any evangelicals to change their minds -- God forbid

But I know 2 people here in NYC who are VERY persuadable. If we have 2 here, there must be hundreds, thousands in other places.

[donco6]

34. Good point.

You're right. It wouldn't have changed my mind a bit if he'd done poorly. The issues are bigger than a debate performance.

[Raenelle]

50. My husbands parents are loyal Republicans

The debate didn't change that loyalty, and they will vote for Bush. But what did change--they went from enthusiastic defenders of Bush to being "disgusted." They'll vote for Bush, but now they have to hold their nose to do it.

To admit to us that Christian-tax-cutting-strong-against-the-terrorists Bush was disgusting is a major sea change for them.

[donco6]

52. Hey, that's a big step.

And if - God forbid - Bush somehow steals another election, he won't have a nation of sheep going along with every hairbrained idea. If even your folks are thinking he's an idiot, there's a lot more out there like them.

[grace0418]

39. I think this election is different

than any before it. The debates don't usually mean much to most people, but today at work EVERYONE was talking about them. I had a Republican friend come into my office today and tell me how awesome Kerry was (and yes, I believe he got my friend's vote).

[Carla in Ca]

43. Some thought he should have saved this for the last debate.

Either way, he is toast!

[pelagius]

2. Two words: October Surprise

I wouldn't put it past these thugs to call the election off. I'm not a paranoid or a conspiracy theorist usually, but after the last four years, it appears nothing is off-limits for these "Mayberry Machiavellis".

[obelus]

23. Listen, if there is any----and I mean ANY---funny business ...

with this election, I am--No Kidding--taking to the street to push all those bastards into the sea once and for all. If I am all by my lonesome, so be it. But I have faith that I'll be lost in a crowd as big as it takes.

[progdonkey]

36. unlikely

Bush did so poorly that I think they've lost any chance to have an October Surprise. It of course depends on what the post-debate polls are that come out in the next few days, but I'm sure Bush lost monumentally on the "Leadership in the War on Terror" question. If the people see Bush as weak, any October Surprise will be seen for what it is.

[pelagius]

38. I hope you're right. n/t

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

41. I think

if Bush and company did do some kind of surprise, like an attack etc. they wouldn't get many votes. It'd be too suspecious I think because of all the rumors.

[beyurslf]

You still think debate #2 is going to take place?

That will be canceled due to Presidential demands while he saves us from "something."

[beyurslf]

4. You still think debate #2 is going to take place?

That will be canceled due to Presidential demands while he saves us from "something."

[henslee]

10. Yes I do.

[henslee]

11. Yes I do.

[sysoprock]

5. HAH!

Right now Rove is sweating blood trying to figure out a way to get Bush out of the next two debates.

[newyawker99]

47. Hi sysoprock!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[delete_bush]

6. For starters, George relieved himself

all over us and pretty much anyone else that got in his way.

[Guaranteed]

7. DON'T do this.

Do NOT talk up Kerry before the debate.

[saracat]

12. You are soo right.

And DON'T express overconfidence. Anything could happen. And "officially"we are still behind.

[durablend]

14. I agree

* could possibly win on the church/god/family/"nyet gay marriage" issue. I think Kerry can crush * on things like jobs, the economy, healthcare, but that other issue concerns me.

[Guaranteed]

20. Bush WILL use the wedge issues, for sure. nt

[athena]

19. How can we lower expectations on Kerry without

making it seem like he didn't do that well in the first debate?

The first debate is the most important and the most widely watched. Furthermore, homeland security appears to be what most undecideds' top concern. I think that instead of trying to lower expectations, we need to prevent the media from performing their magic and making people think Bush* won the first debate.

[Guaranteed]

22. Just say exactly that...say Kerry did

great in the first debate, but he's going to have an uphill battle for the second.

[athena]

27. I guess that would work.

I did hear one pundit say, about a week ago, that the shrub should do well with the town-hall meeting style.

Personally, I'm still worried about the next three debates and what may happen within the next 32 days -- but I'm starting to have more and more faith in Kerry's campaigning ability. He practically performed a miracle last night.

[demwing]

37. The Format

The informal town meeting format will play to Bush's folksy style. Without a clock and timer, Kerry will have a hard time not rambling.
Bush's expectations have been lowered - if he merely keeps Kerry from putting him on the defense, he wins. The warm debate before the people is much more important than the cold debate behind the podium.

Bush will be in his element. Bush will succeed.


Now excuse me while I go take a shower - URGGGH!

[malachibk]

28. Whatever

I'm happy, I'm saying it, I don't see how bush (unless he tampers, steals, blows shit up, catches OBL squatting on a nuclear warhead) can win.

Notwithstanding a Kerry fuckup.

[WillyT]

46. So... I Shouldn't Say Something Like... KERRY IN A LANDSLIDE !!!

Is that what you're saying?

:hi::evilgrin::hi:

[GetaKungFuGrip]

9. We need to have some confidence in Kerry.

He's proven he is capable. We just need to temper our enthusiasm with hard work. Next up is Cheney. Edwards needs to keep the momentum up, and he is also capable.

[wishlist]

13. Bush will do better since it is a looser more informal setting

Surely he has no where to go but up? That's my spin anyway!

[henslee]

15. Bush is in trouble because the next two debates are fact driven not

emotion and he will not be able to perform without making a ridiculous gaff. His further eneptitude will be exposed no doubt.

[The_Casual_Observer]

17. The rove strategy failed. They figured people would only watch

one debate, so they made it the (strong?) Iraq one. Bush lost it, there is a huge amount of talk and hype now, so the next one will even be a bigger deal to see if chimp can pull it off. However, bush is very weak on the domestic stuff and the town hall format is potentially more deadly for chimp because he isn't fast on his feet, is inarticulate and appears to have lost his nerve. Also, the tables have now turned and it is * who will need to "prove himself" not Kerry in the next two. * is now on the uphill climb.



The gamble didn't pay off for rove, this may very have been the turning point for the chimp.

[louis-t]

21. You think the campaign was ugly before?

Rove looking for any and all remaining stops to pull out. He's right now digging in his devious bag of dirty tricks. Won't be long. Details at 11.

[The_Casual_Observer]

25. I don't know. Between the Swift boats and lies last night

I almost think the devil is ready to lay the fiddle at Kerry's feet.

[obelus]

30. For comparisons of the depths of divisions in this country...

...at present we probably need to go all the way back to the Andrew Jackson administration. Every liberal passion is widely despised out in many parts of the country. There is partisanship of the nature in Washington that short circuits the effectiveness of our Constitution. During the next four years, whomever is ultimately elected has a deck stacked not at all in their favor.

If what the "left" wants is to lead and not merely win, then we need to start now to reach out to conservatives and engage them in <i>actual</i> political discussion. Instead of ranting to one another, we need to start creating small solutions. Unless there is a clear mandate for change of the sort necessary, even if Kerry wins he doesn't stand a chance. And that is not coming from a sense of pessimism, but rather an acknowledgement of how far our country has strayed from the strength of its ideals.

[The_Casual_Observer]

32. "even if Kerry wins he doesn't stand a chance"

Not if you have anything to say about I reckon!


Getting a little nervous about * are you?

[gristy]

53. Very well stated,

Thanks for the thought.

[bush equals idiot]

31. You got that right.

We haven't even seen sleaze yet.

[annabanana]

51. Come on over to "sleaze alert central"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2441021

[high density]

29. Healthcare Healthcare Healthcare

Some people think that George Bush is the one who wants to import drugs from Canada. Kerry needs to set the record straight.

[Zhade]

44. An idea I had, maybe Kerry could use it...

The next time b*sh denies reality on anything, comment along the lines that "the first step to fixing a problem is admitting there is one".

Kinda plays on b*sh's alleged "sobriety" (yeah, he's not a drunk! *snort*).

Whaddayathink?

[NightOwwl]

45. I like it!

Hope someone from the Kerry campaign is taking notes! :bounce:

[RollergirlVT]

48. Yes and...

I think they hit a good tune with the excuse line. If Dem's consistently prefaced their question's on b*sh with "what's his excuse for...?" it would not only prequalify all his responses as "excuses", but it also would remind people that he has NEVER taken responsibility for anything. That undermines the strong leader image they have created for him.

[ollie3]

54. Don't misunderestimate Bush--that's what he wants us to do!

Bush Team lost the first debate because they were like the USA Olympic Basketball Team. Cocky, arrogant, over-confident, didn't prepare, were flat on show-time, got whupped. They will do better during the next two debates, they are still olympic-strength debaters, just off their game Thursday. Hopefully Kerry will be able to get his message out about the issues in the upcoming debates. THIS, folks, is a way to lower Kerry's expectations, raise Bush's expectations without conceding anything......