Thurston Howell IV
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:31 AM
Original message |
A note on Kerry's note taking during the debate |
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I forget who pointed this out, but Kerry made a subtle but very effective use of taking notes during the debate. Supposedly, he would take notes whenever Bush was making a strong assertion. Doing this would distract the viewer from what Bush was saying. The viewers would think, "I wonder what he's writing?" I know I did.
Apparently, the previous JFK used this effectively against Nixon. These are the kinds of things that an accomplished debater can do -- it's hard work trying to remember all the things one should do if they've not been integrated into one's understanding. Particularly if one is peeved.
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Kolesar
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:34 AM
Response to Original message |
1. By the rules, Mr. Kerry was not supposed to be in shot w/ shrub talking |
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The complicated rules of the debate said no split screens or off angle shots, but cspan and the networks did both. I bet that won't happen next time!
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Thurston Howell IV
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
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most of the networks said before the debate that they were going to ignore that rule. So he knew he could use this technique, and he did, quite effectively.
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La Lioness Priyanka
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
27. i disagree that this was a tactical move |
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first of all bush had zero strong points. he had a very good sound bites. secondly kerry debated in college and this is what academic debaters do
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Thurston Howell IV
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Sat Oct-02-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
42. An obvious partisan viewpoint |
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Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 01:48 PM by Thurston Howell IV
Bush had ** no ** strong points? Hmmmm...Well, I guess Kerry can sit back and let the election victory roll on in.
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La Lioness Priyanka
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Sat Oct-02-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
44. ok what is his strongpoint. |
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and i'd like to remind you that this is the DEMOCRATIC undergroung...obviously i am partisan
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Thurston Howell IV
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Sun Oct-03-04 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #44 |
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Bush must be stopped, on that we agree. In past posts, I've referred to him in derogatory ways, also very partisan. However, asserting that he made no strong points during the debate doesn't seem very helpful in beating this guy -- we misunderestimate him at our own peril.
I agree with Kerry that Iraq was the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time. However, that creates a couple of problems. If we're claiming the water is full of sewage, saying "come join us for a swim" is problematic, ie, how do we get international support for our efforts in Iraq?
Also, pointing out that things are getting worse there, and it was a mistake to begin with, might be problematic in terms of how the troops on the ground right now feel about a job which requires they risk their life.
Finally, Kerry needs to deal with the "global test" charge, and not ignore it like the Swift Boat liars fiasco.
No doubt, there are several good responses Kerry can make to these charges, but they need to be dealt with.
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CrowNotAngelGRL
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Sun Oct-03-04 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #45 |
48. I agree and now that Kerry |
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is a head in polls and people are watching the debate's he needs to clear up the flipflopping thing too. Today at my church after the college class was over my brother and I were talking to a friend of mine about the debate's (she didn't watch) and said Kerry was a flipflopper. We were talking about something else and flipflops came up dealing with Kerry. I've been following Kerry for the past couple month's and haven't heard him flipflop. :shrug:
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CrowNotAngelGRL
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Sun Oct-03-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
47. I agree and Kerry was |
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more than likely writing down notes. Bush on the other hand, who knows?
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clydefrand
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
7. I'll bet C-Span will IF * doesn't back out of the debates |
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C-Span says they can do their job; we will do ours!
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Racenut20
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
11. Fox said ahead of time they would not abide by not showing that. |
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Knowing Roger's mode, he was probably hoping to catch something like Gores impatience while "swashbucklin George" was smoozing the great unwashed. I guess it backfired. But now, Shrub*'s boys & girls can refuse to debate if the continue to show it, like the rules say they can, or more importantly force them not to do it and Fox would agree because it backfired.
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Thurston Howell IV
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
13. It will be interesting to see what Bush does in response... |
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to the rule bending/breaking. Did he break a rule when he began responding to Kerry's rebuttal without Lehrer's initial approval? Lehrer basically let Bush go, since Bush was so agitated and felt he had to respond.
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Kolesar
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
19. Yeah, where's the criticism of Bush breaking in at least 4 times? |
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If Gore did that, that would be all they talked about.
I think Racenut20 got it right that Fox/Ailes was trying to game the debate. Mr. Kerry was soooo cool. He could have been a gunfighter in a Western movie.
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readmylips
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:34 AM
Response to Original message |
2. Georgie was crapping his pants every time he saw Kerry... |
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taking notes. That was very effective for Kerry.
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Tansy_Gold
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Sat Oct-02-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
31. Because George can't write that fast. . . . |
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. . . .even when he's not thinking.
He can't think and listen and write at the same time.
Hell, he can't do a lot of things NOT at the same time.
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gardenista
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Sat Oct-02-04 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
34. Did you notice that Georgie started taking notes, too? He thought |
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he could look intelligent, too, but we all know what he was writing on his widdle pad.
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mitchum
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Sat Oct-02-04 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #34 |
38. Yes, and I'm surprised that bush didn't put on "Hollywood smart person... |
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glasses" with the non-prescription lenses :)
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CrowNotAngelGRL
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Sun Oct-03-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #34 |
49. LOL I noticed that too |
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Edited on Sun Oct-03-04 10:58 AM by CrowNotAngelGRL
about Bush. He started writing things down a good bit after the debate started while Kerry had been doing it since the beginning.
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clydefrand
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message |
3. I hope he saved those notes for posterity! |
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I'd love to see what he wrote, wouldn't you? It was reported that * took notes, but I didn't notice that. He was probably playing tic tac toe while Kerry was talking to calm himself down or drawing stick figures of his family back on the ranch!!
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Thurston Howell IV
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #3 |
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Kerry wrote "I am so crushing this guy!"
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demwing
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #3 |
16. My 15 year old son doesn't believe Bushwas really taking notes. |
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He said it looked like he was drawing stick figures, probably of he and Kerry, with little knives in Kerry's head, etc...
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MockSwede
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Sat Oct-02-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
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Probably writing "I want my mommy! I want my mommy! I want my mommy!" OR "I want my Cheney! I want my Cheney! I want my Cheney!" Like the little man/child that he is.
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girl gone mad
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #3 |
17. I think they said something like: |
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"I can't believe how much I am owning this guy."
;)
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BOSSHOG
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message |
6. Its hard work taking Notes! |
clydefrand
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
12. It's hard work standing up there listening |
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to your butt being chewed up, too. But I can do it! I work hard for this country. It's hard work. And don't send any more mexed missages. What will Poland think?
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patricia92243
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message |
8. Good point. Note taking also helped him not make negative facial |
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expressions or body english - like Bush did. Kerry loked at his notes - Bush puffed up like the spoiled child he is.
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Philostopher
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:37 AM
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9. It's probably also a technique to throw Bush* off. |
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I posted in another thread -- I imagine Kerry has 'a guy' who's on this, telling him what kind of psychologial/kinetic techniques will throw off his opponent. Taking notes would say 'I'm watching you!' very effectively to an opponent. Especially if he did it at times Bush* didn't think he was doing anything especially effective.
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JI7
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:37 AM
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10. it also made Kerry look like he was paying attention |
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you know in class during a lecture the students who are taking notes always seem the ones paying attention . the ones who just sit there and especially if they make weird looks on their face as bush did look like they don't care and just want to get out of there.
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clydefrand
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
15. I'm like Kerry; I have to take notes BUT |
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it's because I can't remember a damn thing any more! Too many senior moments.
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zaj
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:40 AM
Response to Original message |
14. Bush was taking notes too... |
girl gone mad
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
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Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 10:43 AM by girl gone mad
drawing smiley faces or a picture of Kerry with an anvil over his head. They should add "It's hard work!" and "Don't forget Poland."
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clydefrand
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
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I hope it was ok to send it to several friends! Reminds me of a student that I had several years ago who draw pictures of me with red ink. I was the devil with long red hair and red nails. I loved the kid, but he thought I was a devil when I got on his case.
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underpants
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
23. As Stephanie pointed out in the "Bushisms" thread yesterday |
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W only started doing that half way through and repeatedly looked up and out into the audience while doing it. Stephanie post #39 "Bush's toodles" here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=944165If you noticed early on, moron wasn't writing down a thing, but Kerry was making notes left and right. I then noticed that moron started writing things. I think he thought to himself, "self, I have to look like I'm doing something here, Kerry is about to finish a book over there".
Also was it just me or did it seem like towards the end of the debate, moron kept looking out to the audience, then he would scribble a little, look again, scribble some more, etc...
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ibegurpard
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
25. Yeah, I noticed that. |
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Kerry seemed to be using it as a psych-out technique very effectively. Bush started to copy it but it just didn't come across as real.
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HEIL PRESIDENT GOD
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
26. He was sketching (in all senses of the word) n/t |
SammyWinstonJack
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Sat Oct-02-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
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"self, I have to look like I'm doing something here, Kerry is about to finish a book over there". OMG, that is so funny.
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CrowNotAngelGRL
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Sun Oct-03-04 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
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wanting to tell a joke or something so bad. Of course the audience couldn't respond so that'd be funny. lol. It'd be him telling a joke, he'd laugh and then you'd hear the crickets and Leher looking at him like "is he for real?" lol.
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Born_A_Truman
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Sat Oct-02-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
39. On C-Span, after the stage cleared... |
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I noticed that someone quickly went to Bush's podium and grabbed his notes and exited the stage in a hurry.
I didn't see anyone go to Kerry's podium.
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mitchum
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Sat Oct-02-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
CrowNotAngelGRL
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Sun Oct-03-04 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
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the picture of Laura to anybody. LOL. :eyes: I like the "debating is hard" one. And using the WF sign.
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dogtag
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message |
20. TV networks are not signers on the 32 page agreement. |
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They are not 'breaking' any rules because they didn't agree to follow any in the first place.
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jefferson_dem
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:46 AM
Response to Original message |
21. I couldn't help tranforming JK to the Jeopardy stage |
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scribbling down that "final answer" with success!
Seriously, Kerry was clearly more polished in every single stylistic aspectof that debate. And this matters, people! How many times have you heard the phrase "presidential" attached to our guy after his ace performance. Especially when contrasted with *'s drunken babbling, bumbling, and stuttering.
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GoldenOldie
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Sat Oct-02-04 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
30. Bush's note taking??? |
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I observed that when he became nervous while Kerry was speaking, he kept flipping papers as tho he was looking for a good response to pop up. He was so completely unaware that he appeared to be fumbling with the papers which appeared to have random chicken scratchs on both sides of the paper. I wondered why none of the talking heads/political analysts(?), pointed that out.
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wyldwolf
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message |
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Don't give away the secrets!
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ochazuke
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Sat Oct-02-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message |
28. Meanwhile, Bush drank water 15 times. |
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Although for that trick to mean anything, Cheney should have been the one drinking water while Bush was talking.
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underpants
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Sat Oct-02-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
33. I loved the shot of him tipping back the glass |
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He looked like someone polishing off the last before they had to go home to the "old lady"
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CrowNotAngelGRL
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Sun Oct-03-04 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
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with Bush drinking all the water he had to go to the bathroom really bad afterwards? I wonder if he wanted to just run backstage and go badly. He drank so much. :eyes:
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Sparkly
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Sat Oct-02-04 11:00 AM
Response to Original message |
29. Yes -- my husband's theory is that Kerry writes something to stay focused |
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and to keep from getting too pissed off at Chimp.
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gospelized
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Sat Oct-02-04 11:03 AM
Response to Original message |
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bush only started doing it like half-way thru.
my favorite part was when he was taking notes during Kerry's closing statements. as if he was going to rebute them?
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Davis_X_Machina
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Sat Oct-02-04 11:36 AM
Response to Original message |
36. Kerry took notes because ... |
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... he's a trained debater, from HS onwards.
He was trained, as all my debaters were trained, to take notes because in debate, if you get up and say "My opponent said X", and he did not in fact say X, you lose the round right there.
You can pull that shit in a stump speech, but not in debate.
Think about it.
There are only two reasons why one would say "My opponent said X" when he did not in fact say X, and they're both lethal.
A. You're a liar -- and ipso facto a lousy debater -- you lose. B. You weren't listening -- and ipso facto a lousy debater -- you lose.
Novice HS debaters learn this in September of freshman year: 'Flow or die, baby, flow or die.'
Against my own sophomores, George Bush wouldn't make it into rebuttals -- and as a judge I would have stopped taking notes, capped my pen and just watched (a very bad sign from a judge) after 20 minutes.
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girl gone mad
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Sun Oct-03-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #36 |
46. At least Bush gave you a good educational tool. |
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Play the tape for your students in a "what not to do" lecture.
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Dr Fate
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Sat Oct-02-04 11:40 AM
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37. Kerry smiled & took notes-as if inviting the next challenge... |
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While Bush hunched & grimaced.
Is this how they act when they are under fire?
Probably so.
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Sparkly
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Sat Oct-02-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #37 |
43. You're right, he looked confident the entire time |
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He'd put his pen down with a look that said, "I'm ready."
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CrowNotAngelGRL
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Sun Oct-03-04 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #43 |
53. I loved how after Kerry |
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wrote something down he'd look over, nod and smile sweetly. Hehe. :bounce:
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