Any chance George Jr. threw that first debate on purpose?

[4_Legs_Good]

Or played softball in order to re-destroy expectations, so that he can come back strong in the next couple.

Seems stupid, but Rove is always thinking.

Kerry needs to absolutely ROCK in the next two in order to really keep things rolling. He can't afford anything short of serious victory in all 3, especially now that expectations are so high. I'm confident that he can do it. Thang God for James Carville!

Edwards needs to flay the skin off of Cheney Tuesday, but that shouldn't be too hard.

david

[Gman]

1. Sorry, but...

he really is that stupid.

[4_Legs_Good]

7. Lol

No need to be sorry! ;)

Unless he wins, then we'll all be sorry!

david

[drscm]

2. I think that Rove was too shaken post-debate to have had

Bush throw it purposely.

[4_Legs_Good]

5. Did you read the deal in Slate

where Rove called it George Jr.'s best debate ever and the reporter said "and you can say that with a straight face?"

HILARIOUS!

Okay, thanks for the reassurance...

david

[tomfodw]

3. No

This is a game of inches, you don't surrender anything. If Bush had "won" this debate, he'd have had a chance to end the campaign once and for all. No way they defer that opportunity.

Bush failed because Bush is a failure. Pure and simple.

[4_Legs_Good]

4. "Bush failed because Bush is a failure. Pure and simple"

BEST words EVER!

:)

Okay, I just try to think of all the possibilites, and prepare for the counter-attack.

I agree, though, he couldn't afford that big a loss, but DAMN, leaning on the lectern for 2/3 of the debate??? I mean, that is idiocy utterly - or maybe he was drunk.

david

[tomfodw]

11. Overconfident.

Karl told him it was over, and Karl is always right (repeat that ad infinitum). Besides, Bush is the King and who told the press they had the right to ask hard questions of the King?

And Kerry fiddled with his tie, and Jim Lehrer gave Kerry the questions in advance and asked tough questions of Bush and easy ones of Kerry and he was tired from helping the hurricane victims and Kerry had SmartWater in his glass while Bush had DumbWater in his, and some other excuse the Freepers haven't gotten around to "discovering" just quite yet.

[Fla Dem]

I thought at first he may have thrown it.

I just couldn't believe he was so terrible. After all he performed pretty darn well against Gore. I was really very, very concerned going into the debate that he would totally dominate. And all the talk about Gore's expressions and sighing pre-debate. Wouldn't you have thought that would have been drilled into him to stay focused and keep a straight face?

But then I thought, here is a man who is so cock sure of himself, never second guesses a thing he does, has God on his side, is so used to adoring crowds, no one ever disagrees with him, so to actually have Kerry up there in a peer to peer situation, basically calling him incompetent, totally threw him off stride. It is amazing he didn't implode more.

[RobinA]

38. He Did NOT

perform well against Gore. He was just as bad, if not worse.

[Joe Turner]

55. It's Hard Work

Not to implode. Shrub I'm sure feels entitled to another vacation.

[juajen]

53. You forgot that he had a cheat sheet, and that there was

writing on his fingers.

[Bluebear]

6. Not a chance. It's his first exposure to reality.

No cheering pre-selected throngs applauding every cliche. He's truly daft and it showed.

[Cha]

8. Even down to drinking out of the

empty water glass..two or three times?

[PROGRESSIVE1]

9. Bush was that bad. This debate gives people the first impression...

and Bush &%$#ed up badly. Yes, Kerry needs to be "solid" in the next, if he is, Kerry will win this election handily!

[simpsonsbuff]

12. No.......

Most people felt that if bush won, it would have been OVER! Bush had no reason to throw it, he just IS THAT STUPID!

[Hot Water]

28. And for the FIRST time, 60 million people saw it.

[redstateblues]

60. 62 Million I Believe

[Child_Of_Isis]

10. I have wondered this.

But can those expressions be faked? I have a hard time believing that he wasn't better prepared. Did he know about the split screen or was it a media trick? Did he know the camera was on him? Is he actually stupid enough to act that way in public??? He may be but his handlers aren't. Something feels wrong. Shrub owns the damn media,. We see it everyday, but the day of the debates, they showed him at his worse??????? I don't get it!

[tomfodw]

15. You're over-analyzing.

Sometimes what you see really is what you get. Bush has not been in an unscripted setting for years, and he was not ready to handle it.

[Child_Of_Isis]

23. BUT...

the media usually covers his ass. Why didn't they this time?

[NYC Liberal]

26. Because people saw him implode,

live and unfiltered with their own eyes. And a lot of people watched -- 88%, I think. So only a small amount are *only* seeing it through the media filter.

[indie_voter]

27. This is what I think too

Too many people saw it.

Kerry didn't make any mistakes to distract from *'s stuttering, grimaces, angry looks and defensive behavior.

Had Kerry rose to *'s bait and been anything but respectful, * would have gotten a pass.

The media can't help the boy king this time, he was that terrible.

It is a measure of how cowed this media is that * hasn't been written off completely.

The best the media can do is to try to spin it as a draw. Anybody who saw even 10 minutes knows otherwise.

[Virginian]

34. I don't think he expected split screen.

CSPAN did the entire debate split screen.

[jn2375]

13. No, god I would have loved to have heard what went on

behind closed door at the RNC after the debate. Is Dubya sporting any new bruises.

[4_Legs_Good]

16. I'm sure Rove gave him a good spanking

You think he'll be too nervous to "perform" in the next one? That would be OH SO SWEET!

david

[matt819]

14. He'd have to be real smart. . .

to appear quite that stupid.

Another post on the debate raises an interesting point, though. Having set the bar as low as he has with his performance in this debate, as long as he doesn't drool or rant (as that other poster notes), then he'll be seen by his idiot followers and the "liberal" media as presidential. Can you say banana republic?

[Union Thug]

17. That's what I was thinking too..

Bushie's bar has been set lower, so it will be much easier for the lil' chimp to appear stronger in the next round, simply by remembering to brush his teeth before hand.

[MasonJar]

18. The spin goes on (as in I've read the transcript and Kerry wasn't

as good as I thought.) Bush is a spoiled brat; he just doesn't know anything about what is going on. He had two oneliners (mixed messages and hard work and that is that.)

[Kahuna]

19. And the good Lord considered their angst. And he confounded the tongue..

of the evildoer. And caused him to utter idiotic phrases over and over and over. Until the people of the land rose up, And with a great cry they said, get thee behind me, evildoer. For the Lord is mightier than thou. He hath smote thy tongue. He has caused a great pestilence to erupt upon they brow. And the people went to their polling places and cast out the evildoers and cast their votes for righteousness. And the evildoers slank away on their bellies to dwell in the land of Crawford.

[undercover_brother]

20. Believe it or not, he is our President.

Bush did not "throw" the debate. Most Americans don't want to believe that someone like that could possibly be our President, but it is true. The first debate was a very accurate representation of our current leader.

[laylah]

21. He's not MY president!

President Gore has been in exile since December 2000!

Jenn

[grace0418]

47. I beg to differ

He stole the presidency, but it doesn't make him president in my eyes. I can put a crown on my head and sit my ass down in Buckingham Palace but that don't make me Queen Elizabeth.

[Ready4Change]

22. On Purpose? No. However...

I wouldn't put it past his handlers to have mis-coached him if there were some advantage to putting in a poor performance.

[4_Legs_Good]

24. It just seems to me that he did poorer than can be explained logically

I mean he LEANED ON THE LECTERN for like 60% of the debate. I *know* his handlers aren't *that* stupid, so either he just was that overconfident or there's some sinister plan.

david

[irancontra]

25. I think it's easy.. he's NEVER actually LISTENED to JK

he probably saw all the short clips he was shown by rove & buddies.. and had no idea Kerry was gonna lay the smackdown on him. Kerry was the prosecutor & Bush was the PERP.

[Hot Water]

31. He actually thinks

in his amoeba sized brain, that he is the greatest President of all time. Like how dare you question a Bush? We are the royalty America should be grateful for. He probably even thinks he's a woman's dream date too.

His delusion is only exceeded by his stupidity. Only America was able to see it this time Thursday night.:P

[bigpathpaul]

29. I don't think he's that smart, but it should be exploited.

The versions shown above are reduced-size, low-resolution versions. Full-size versions can be downloaded from http://bigpath.net/politics/Voting/VotingStart.html

[AlCzervik]

30. You can't fake that kind of suckiness

not possible.

[DrBB]

32. Wrong--this was supposed to begin the Inevitibility Dance

As one who posted a similar thread--NO, I DON'T think so. I'm quite sure this was a case of pure and simple fuck-uppery, the which Bush has shown a lifelong aptitude for.

That said, as I put it in my thread, I think it DOES put Bush back in the expectations hole that he loves so well. I don't know that it will do him that much good. This debate should have initiated the Inevitability of Victory Dance, but now that dance has had a leg kicked out from under it. The key thing: the True Believers don't believe it, and their credulity is critical for getting that meme going. I think the press will lean over backward to treat Bush as the Komeback Kid given the whisper of an excuse, but that's NOT where Rove's strategy would have had him now.

[4_Legs_Good]

33. Good! As long as it was a genuine fuck-up, we're in good shape

I just always look for something diabolical under these massive screw ups.

david

[Virginian]

35. There is a dirty trick somewhere in this.

Maybe he didn't think he needed to do any preparation because he has been assured that the election is rigged and he can't lose, no matter what he does.

[Child_Of_Isis]

37. Or he is not expecting an election.

People, we are dealing with freaking devils here! It is important that we stay very alert! I will admit to being an alarmist, but I also have killer intuition. Something is not right.

[RobinA]

39. The Dirty Trick

is that he really is that stupid, and he has, at worst, an even chance of winning this election.

[djg21]

36. No chance !

The first debate is the one that matters. Especially this year given the import of foreign policy issues. Viewership will drop off dramatically for debate no. 2, especially with the baseball playoffs on TV. Moreover, a debate of domestic issues will surely favor Kerry.

[oasis]

40. Bush is not capable of screwing up on purpose. He's a total dunce.

[deadparrot]

41. The thing is....

NO amount of preparation could have readied Bush for what he got.

Think about it.

He's used to throngs of adoring, loyalty-oath-signing fans, screaming positively for everything he says.

He got silence from the audience. He got a man, only FEET away from him, criticizing him, slamming him for stuff that the puppetmasters have always praised him for. Now he's got a record to defend-- a BAD record.

Bush expected another Al Gore, but he got John Kerry. And John SLAMMED him.

[juajen]

54. Do not take President Al Gore's name in vain. He won in 2000, ya know.

N/T

[deadparrot]

57. Of course I like and prefer Al Gore.

But he wasn't exactly a top-notch debater, especially in 2000.

[The_Casual_Observer]

42. Nobody in the world would have done that

He simply fuck it up, and it will cost him the election. Pure and simple.

[shivaji]

43. Come Back Kid!!!! Funny I was thinking the same thing. Rove must

have decided shrub could not possibly hold up in 3 debates
against super-debater Kerry. If Shrub does better in 2nd than
1st and better in 3rd than 2nd, the people will only remember
the 3rd debate. Another machivellian plot by Karl Rove.

[Johnny 99]

44. OK

I'm getting a little tired of Rove being this Svengali with near-godlike powers who can influence three million people with a wave of his hand. Anyone who watched CSPAN during the debate saw how honest-to-God pissed off Bush was getting when Kerry was speaking and challenging his positions. That was not an act. Bush is incapable of putting an act together like that.

It seems stupid because it is stupid. They figured the flip-flop bullshit would sink Kerry, and instead he came through strong. Now they're on their heels.

[progdonkey]

45. not a chance

The whole reason the Foreign Policy debate was first was because that was supposed to be Bush's strength, and his people wanted to get off to a good start with a guaranteed success. They figured that Bush would have the style aspect shored up in all three debates, but he would also have substance on his side. Unfortunately, his people had spent so much time practicing the art of sycophancy, that they forgot that he is an absolute moron; Bush not only failed to deliver the substance, but his mannerisms destroyed any non-verbal cues of competency.

Now we have two more presidential debates; the second is a draw as far as pre-advantage goes, but the third is Kerry's: his strength is Domestic Policy, and, assuming Bush remains the pathetic POS he was in the first, Kerry will cary the style part of that debate as well.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

46. Shrub is too arrogant.

He never would have agreed to "throw" the debate and accept the criticism and embarrassment that would (and did) result. And I don't think he could have faked the anger and peevishness he showed. Nope, that was the real Dubya. LOL!

[shivaji]

48. The excuse I have heard why Dubya looked tired is...

he spent good part of that (debate) day touring in
hurricane stricken areas talking to people. I do not
know if that is true, but thats what I heard.

[Demonaut]

49. you always take first blood. shrub is a moran

[Technowitch]

50. Not an ice-cube's chance in hell did Bush blow that on purpose

He lacks the intelligence to fake that kind of irritation, annoyance, and outright stammering nonsense.

[genius]

51. The news will try to make him a come-back hero so we have to watch out.

[Chichiri]

52. There's always a chance, and I wouldn't put ANYTHING past Rove

But I don't think that that happens to be the case. Call it a gut feeling.

[LisaL]

56. Yes, of course, it is possible.

Who knows, maybe Bush is actually a genius, who has been pretending to be that stupid all these years, in anticipation of this very debate.
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[lojasmo]

58. The most watched of the four? Not a chance in hell N/T

[alcuno]

59. Only if he subconsciously didn't want the job.

SNL had it right last night. "I don't even know why anyone would want this job."