Passing the global test - what Kerry said

[expatriot]

Kerry: "But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons."


Bush is desparate in trying to make this look like Kerry is implying that global test means a UN vote or something.


What Kerry means here is that it passes the "smell test." In fact, he says exactly what he means by it: a test where 1) the American people understand why you are attacking and 2) you can prove to the world that you did it (note the past tense) for legitimate reasons."

The key talking point here is bringing out Kerry's use of past tense. No UN vote before the pre-emptive attack, in fact no UN vote following it.... only an explanation to the world community following the pre-emptive attack.

[Thrill]

1. Yup

The repukes internal polling is obviously showing Kerry winning thats why their taking the one thing they can out of that debate and going on a major offensive

[private_ryan]

2. yp

we have to play the entire clip and show that Bush is a liar. Kerry can't do it because of the contract, Moveon can though. What the hell are they doing with all that money? Haven't seen an effective ad from them yet.

[pinkpops]

6. The Bushies rely on the fact that many folks did not see the

debates or didn't pay close attention to what was said. So, like you say, you would have to play the whole thing for them, if they would sit still long enough to watch it.

[private_ryan]

12. I mean the test thing

less than 15 seconds. The rest (15 sec) would be to show how Bush is misleading them and taking people for fools

[dennis4868]

3. you are so right.....

but if Bush makes an attack on Kerry no matter how off base it is the media will run with it and promote Bush's false attacks and use it against Kerry just like the fraudulent flip flop and swift boat attacks...

[pinkpops]

4. Also, by saying it needs to pass a smell test the implication is

that the approach taken by Bush did not pass a smell test, which is why it has failed to gain international support. He broke it, he bought it.

[cheshire]

5. This game of *'s is getting so desperately pathetic.

[ClassWarrior]

7. Ignore it. The RW is trying to make it an issue...

DON'T play on their turf. (See Bill Moyers quote below...)

23.

[dolstein]

9. Ignoring the Swiftboat Vet ads was the smartest move Kerry made

NOT.

Good lord, is the DU community really as foolish as it appears?

[Heath.Hunnicutt]

17. Maybe it was!

I don't hear the swing voters talking about swift boats anymore these days, actually. Maybe it is a good thing we let that burn itself out.

[Harlan James]

8. Like the new Kerry ad says, Bush is lying

Nice to see John Kerry using just the right word to describe Bush's desperate post-debate gambit.

[Child_Of_Isis]

10. If Kerry really wanted to do a low down

he would bring attention to shrub's "leash" joke. That would shut shrub's fat mouth up. But, Kerry is too well bred for that. Rove would have jumped on it in a heart beat if Kerry had said it.

[Nicholas_J]

11. Yup

What Kerry was referring to was the fact that if you are going to try to convinnce the rest of the world in general, and the United Nations in particular, to take "serious actions" against a nation, that you have better be honest with the rest of the world with the means that you use to convince them.

As Kofi Annan pointed out when he stated that he believed that the U.S. war in Iraq was illegal, that if any nation is going to base going to war with another nation on its "violation" of U.N. Resolutions, they had better go to the U.N. and have the U.N. as a group decide whether any violations occured, and that if a resolution calling for "serious consequences" for any nation that violates U.N. resolutions is to be meted out, it should be the United Nations and not one single nation or small group of nations that decides what form and shape that those serious consequences takes.

Kerry has repeatedly sttes that the U.S. has the right to defend itself against imminent threat, but that absent such threat, the treaty obligations that the U.S. has taken upon itself by being a signatory to the U.N. Charter, the Geneva Conventions and the Nuremburg Accords obligate the U.S. to go to the international community and the international bodies issuing such resolutions prior to acting in defense of the resolutions made by those bodies. After all, all of the claims that George Bush made against Saddam Hussein and his regime revolved around Iraq violating treaties, sanctions, and resolutions made by those international bodies and not the U.S.

If the U.S. reserves the right to defend itself under imminent threat, the international community has the right to decide how its resolutions and rules are enforced, not the United States.

Absent his arguments about Saddam Hussein's violations of numerous United Nations resolutions, he Bush Admininstration had no viable arguments for going to war with Iraq, as none of the reasons that this administration had to bas a war on imminent threat existed.

The fact that Iraq had the ability to develop WMD's and the desire to do so once (when and IF) the United Nations removed its sanctions, does not constitute a gathering threat, much less imminent danger.
Under international law, going to war because somebody might do something once the world stops watching them does not constitute a legal justification for war. Thus, the U.S. has absolutely no justification under international law for going into Iraq, and even under U.S. law, had not right to do so, as there was not even a growing threat in Iraq as long as U.N. sanctions remained in place.
All evidence gathered during the inspection ordered under resolution 1441 indicated that the sanctions placed by the United Nations in the years after the Gulf war were entirely effective in eliminating Iraq as a gathering threat, and totally eliminated Iraq as an imminent threat to the world.

The only justification that this administration had to go into Iraq was based totally on the concept of violation of U.N. resolutions, and as the U.S. does not feel that the rest of the world has the right to interefere with the laws and regulations of the United States, the rest of the world has the right to demand that the United States does not act independently with regard to decisions made by thr international community.

[DeepModem Mom]

13. Exactly right, expat -- thanks!

[Gore1FL]

14. It was a clear attack on Bush's credibility

Bush either being intentionally deceptive, or being abosultely cluselss (hard choice) has spun this into "Kerry believes the US needs the permission of France to defend itself.

Lets review:

1> Bush is an idiot and doesn't know Kerry slammed his credibility
2> Bush does know he was slammed, but believes his supporters are idiots.

It keeps coming down to credibility with Bush, and being mildly retarded does not cut it anymore for the benefit of the doubt.
His base is the uninformed.

[DeepModem Mom]

16. This is fodder for simple minds -- they insult the voters...

they are trying to reach by pushing this.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynnTheDem]

19. Drats!

Just when I had the link to slam the lying little rightwingnut with, the lying little rightwingnut gets tombstoned. :D

[bushwakker]

18. "global" wasn't the word he was loooking for "comprehensive" was

i knew when he said "global" that it was a mistake but he made it clear that he was not talking about the UN type "global" but a rigorous dot all the i's cross all the t's type tesy.

[CityHall]

20. April 18th 1995 worldview

The Republicans are showing an April 18th 1995 worldview with this attack. Back before the right wing terrorists attacked us in Oklahoma City, it was still acceptable to go around ranting about the UN, sovereignty, and black helicopters.

You can bet if Kerry sends his secretary of state to the United Nations Security Council, he won't have to go back and apologize six months later because what he said turned out to be completely wrong. That's what he means by passing the international test.

[newyawker99]

22. Hi CityHall!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[JI7]

21. they KNOW that

but as we all know they always have to lie and make shit up. fucking right wing assholes.