Mixed Messages on Debate #2 ???

[deckerd]

Bush is sending mixed signals, mixed messages to the American people.

Let's not do the same. I really don't understand all the irrational exuberance I'm seeing here on DU. An example:

Now they are moving into the debate they never wanted to have. The questioning is wide open.
The town hallers can ask any kind of question they want. Bush can't possibly prepare for every
answer -- and you know what that means. He'll ramble on incomprehensibly. He did that in 2000
against Al Gore. But the stakes are higher for him now and, after losing the first debate on his
supposed strong-suit topic, he's against the wall.

Come on people. This plays right into their hands.

Let's be realistic. It's true that we can't say Bush has never lost a debate. Obviously, there's a first time for everything. But the reality of the situation is that there is noone, noone better in a town hall format than the current President of the United States. He is a master
at interacting with "the people". He is truly a "man of the people", that has always been his strong suit.

By agreeing to the second debate in a town-hall setting, Kerry may have walked into a trap. Rove surely intended for the second debate to be a town-hall setting as insurance against any eventuality.

Kerry has a hard hill to climb. He has made America believe he could be commander in chief, but he has proven nothing about debate skills because the format of the second debate is completely different. He still has to prove he can communicate better than Bush in a real life setting -- not some artificial setting where anyone in Bush's position might crack. Let's see Kerry overcome Bush's mastery of the town-hall format. Advantage: Bush.

My advice for Dems is we walk away with Debate #1 and try to coast through the rocky road of Debate #2.

In fact, we should do everything we can to encourage the media to give Kerry a break for a change and downplay the second debate. I am afraid. I'm afraid the more they cover it, the more it helps Bush. In fact, I plan on writing some e-mails to the media about this. I will say, if you DO plan on covering this know that it will only hurt our candidate, at least set it up by reminding viewers that Kerry can't hope to compete on charisma. They need to look beyond Bush's overwhelming advantage when it comes to interacting with voters of all political persuasions, and remind viewers to focus on the issues.

If Kerry can prove he's capable of interacting with the American people anywhere near as well as Bush, who is a master of town-hall format and interacting with people of all backgrounds, then Kerry would have to draw on some deep well of charisma indeed. Some facet of his character that the American people truly have not seen.

If he does that it would truly be the come-from-behind performance of the millenium.

Bottom line, we don't need to worry about Kerry's performance in Debate #2 because everyone knows Bush is a master at interacting with the average Joe. Debate #2 won't be news unless Kerry somehow, by some unexplained reserve of charisma and courage, wins the second debate. Expect a gimme for Bush, folks.

Remember, Kerry has proven nothing about debate skills because it's all about how you interact with the voters in a human setting. That's what America cares about, right? Debate #2 is different. It's a completely new test for Kerry. Remember that.

[sandnsea]

1. rotfl

Okay, sure. Guess you haven't watched Kerry at a townhall meeting. He's got this one in his sleep. His problem has always been PODIUMS. Thank god he mastered them. People absolutely love John Kerry, they BELIEVE in him, and that's worth a hell of alot more than some folksy yuk yuk.

[ogradda]

2. yes bush does well

in front of carefully screened yes men - ass kissers. however, this will be a group of undecided voters who want serious , thoughtful, intelligent answers to their questions and concerns. * is gonna sink like a rock:evilgrin:

[GeorgeBushytail]

3. We saw at the debate

how unused to criticism he is. That won't play well in a mixed forum.

[high density]

4. I don't think Kerry has fallen into any traps

Bush failed during the debate that he was supposed to own. Had the roles been reversed on Thursday night, every talking head in the country would be calling the election for Bush (not that they weren't already, of course.) Karl Rove is now out there doing the spinning so I think that shows a sign that they're getting worried.

Kerry just has to keep plugging along. I have confidence in him! I think the town hall format is going to make it more difficult for Bush to keep hitting his talking points (mixed signals, tax cuts, God, whatever.)

[snowbear]

5. But....

Bush doesn't send mixed messages.... He sends "mexed missages" :bounce:

[deckerd]

12. Ahh, but it's more serious than that, larissa

Anyone who sends Mixed Messages can't be the Commander In Chief.
Bush said it himself.

I have recently concluded that Bush is sending mixed messages to the American people. Perhaps his mispronunciation was not the usual Yogi Berra-ism that all Americans know and love. Perhaps it was a freudian slip.

Mr. President, you have let me down. You said the president shouldn't send mixed messages, and that is exactly what you are doing.

:-)

I realize Bush is a master of the town-hall format, but if questioners started challenging him on this mixed-messages thing, it might just come back and stick to Bush like "read my lips" stuck to GHWBush. Same concept really. He's even starting to LOOK like his father. Hmmm... "another mixed signal from the President."

I can just ear Tweety saying it now.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

6. You forgot to put *sarcasm*

Unless you meant it, in which case you forgot
to put *delusional* ...

[deckerd]

14. No, not *sarcasm* at all

What is the tag on DU for *game face* ?? C'mon, you were warmer to start out with.

Here, let's try some:

:-|
:poker:
:pokerfaced:
:gameface:

I forgot, most folks don't know how to play poker. :evilgrin:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

17. Oh yeah right.

Bush is great at town hall meetzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[deckerd]

22. If you say so, I'm fine with that.

Let's telegraph our confidence that Kerry will perform exactly the way we hope. Let's write LTTE's reminding Republican media meisters what we expect Kerry to do in the 2nd Debate. Let's ask the American people to be prepared for more of the same, everyone knows Kerry's more articulate than Bush, yesterdays news, no reason even to watch.

Now that, my friend, was sarcasm. :evilfrown:

Still, some folks here are like a goose in a new world.

I shall give it a name, and I will call it "Shrummaging" -- as in "Shrummaging through yesterday's news trying to figure out what
happened to our honest, sincere, transparent talking points"

[A-Schwarzenegger]

27. Yeah these reverse psych job debate threads

were hilarious the first ten times, bub.
And no doubt they won the first debate for Kerry
and are blowing Rove's mind right this second.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

30. You have a hard time accepting praise, chum.

My strategy is yer strategy. I just said you were not only
hilarious, but you probly won the first debate for Kerry and are
most likely giving Rove a stroke trying to figure out what the
heck you're up to. That is, if he isn't reading these posts
where you go ahead and spell out yer whole brilliant strategy
for him. bigsmiley. Sometimes you real smart types are so smart you not only outsmart us mindless Republicans and Pollyannaish sheeple you also
outsmart yerseff! realbigsmiley

[Norquist Nemesis]

7. I'm worried about #2 because of the format also

Bush has those magic words (tax cuts) that always leads the blind. Say those words and they all step onto the platform for a jump into the volcano.

Then there's the "ownership society". What a joke! But it 'sounds' good and appeals to their hopes and dreams. And young people are liking his social security idea. Of course, they'll be spending that money and worry about it later...when it's too late.

That's the real problem with the flim-flam man. He has tons of slogans and no substance. Anyone who believes him has fallen for the marketing hook, line, and sinker without learning the details and thinking things through. He says just enough to create a vision where each individual gets to write their own ending...then he puts roadblocks in place to implement and it's too late!

Kerry's plan is detailed and what's more...it's common sense! But the format is going to be a battle of charisma, not whose plans/ideas are better. :mad:

[ClintonTyree]

32. Kerry..................

must attck the "owner society" mantra and explain to the people what Bush REALLY means by repeating it ad nauseum. The "ownership society" is nothing more than Conspeak for "we're going to outsource every government program into the private sector so our Corporate backers can loot the Traeasury over and over again". Services will be cut, costs will go up (just look at the Medicare prescription drug debacle) and Bush's buddies will walk away with more of our money than can ever be imagined.
Kerry has to bust this "ownership society" myth to shards.

[librechik]

8. yes, I fear Bush will seriously kick Kerry's ass next time

Bush will be in his glory surrounded and supported by common people like himself. Kerry won't be able to relate to all those salt of the earth types.

[deckerd]

10. Agreed. * is unflappable in a public setting

When it comes to reaching out to average citizens, ESPECIALLY people on the other side of the aisle, Bush is the Great Communicator.

He is truly unflappable in a public setting.

[deckerd]

9. Wow. Just look at some of these replies -- read em and weep.

It is to weep. Come on folks, help me out, I'm dying here!

You guys aren't even in the ballpark. Get in the game, people.

Put your game face on and acknowledge/accept that Bush is a master at the town hall format.

Geez...! Talk about mixed messages. Bush has been sending mixed
messages to the American people, it would be truly strange to see
Dem activists here on DU do the same. After all, Bush is the master
at mixed messages -- or mexed missages, if you prefer. Let the mixed
messages flow from the other side, folks. Better to call them on it.

:evilgrin:

[DemToTheGrave]

11. Get real

Bush does nothing well He has a anti Midas touch everything he touches turns to s**t.

[flordehinojos]

13. How long in advance will Charles Gibson have the questions the townhallers

want to ask? Do you trust Gibson not to pass on the questions to Bush before the debates if the questions are to be submitted with enough time for him to do so? Coming from the corporate media ...
a n y t h i n g is possible!

[jacksonian]

15. there wouldn't be enough time i would think

what the moderator has is the power to choose the questions from the pool, including any that certain parties might want included.

[flordehinojos]

20. oh! i thought they had to submit the questions ahead of time. thanks for

clearing that up for me. :)

[deckerd]

18. Exactly. That's why * will win 2nd Debate. Let's hope we can ride it out.

Bush is a master at the town hall format, I'm sorry to say. :(

The EXPECTATIONS I have are a Bush victory that is not notable
unless somehow, through some unexplained chemistry, Kerry wins
the second debate. Otherwise, we ride out the storm on the
strength of Kerry's stellar come-from-behind performance in
Debate #1.

Wouldn't You Agree?

[flordehinojos]

23. I hope they let some anti-bush townhallers ask questions.

Then we would get to see the real bush as we saw in Coral Gables, not the bubble bush boy.:-)

[deckerd]

28. Alas, we all know the average joe is happy with bush

Are you saying the polls might be wrong??

Bush was riding high only a week ago. Now, some people out there are questioning Bush. They say he sends "mixed messages" to the American people. I can't refute what these people have to say except to point out that * is still overWHELMINGLY popular in this country.

Yet Kerry, the underdog, managed to put a chink in *'s armor on Thursday. How this is possible I do not know. This is truly something. It suggests Kerry may be a more formidable opponent than us cautious Dems imagined. If the chink continues growing, perhaps we may even encounter criticism of this President in the second debate. Unfortunately, I don't think Bush has anything to worry about.

:evilgrin:

In all seriousness, though --

If Bush recieves even a single hostile question during the 2nd Debate, it would be indicative to me that something is seriously wrong in the direction of the Bush campaign. Keep that in mind.

Kerry is truly the underdog after his Cinderella performance in Debate #1.

[WilliamPitt]

16. pzzzcheezzz

[deckerd]

19. Surely you see

where I am going with this.

[WilliamPitt]

33. Of course

It was an ironic pzzzcheeezzz. ;)

[secular_warrior]

21. meme: Yes - Kerry is a stiff elitist, Bush is a man of the people

Kerry may be a classical debater, but Bush is the one the folks out there in the heartland want to have a beer with. Kerry will probably go on about policy points, but Bush will win over the hearts of the audience with his Texas charm.

[deckerd]

24. That is why I am so afraid of the 2nd Debate

While it cannot be said Bush has never lost a debate -- there's a first time for everything -- everyone knows that Bush is unflappable when he's out amongst the voters.

Especially when he's reaching out to people on the other side of the fence.

[Bozos for Bush]

25. Absurd analysis

Your analysis is absurd, and suspicious as well. Bush, the "man of the people?" He only performs well when in front of a rigged audience with notes in front of him. "No one better in a town hall format?" Clinton is the best, hands down - because he has both style AND knowledge.

Next Friday night, Bush will be in front of real Americans, instead of a hand-picked crowd armed with signs, and orders to clap and cheer on cue. His used-car-salesman routine will fall flat from the first moment on, just like his 15 seconds of memorized "zingers" failed the other night. Nothing destroys snake oil salemen more than the truth, and the truth is on Kerry's side. All Kerry has to do is recite the following and this election is over..."Halliburton, Enron, no WMDs, worst job growth of any administration since Hoover, crime up, unemployment up, assault weapons back on the streets, millions more without health insurance, poverty up, fewer strong allies than before, Iraq a mess, Iran, North Korean nukes, "mission accomplished," "bring 'em on," No Rich Child Left Behind, what did you do during the Viet Nam War George?, and Where's Osama?"

The fascist right wing takeover of the media cannot save Bush, now that he's been exposed as the fraud that intelligent Americans have known all along. Bush is toast.

[deckerd]

26. Methinks Thou Dost Protest too much

Have you learned nothing of campaign messaging? Verily, I say unto you
that Bush's one and only strength is his common touch. Everyone in the
media acknowledges this. Take that away and you have nothing. That's
why nobody will be surprised if Bush wins the second debate -- they'll
have seen it coming. Et tu??

Where's LoZoccolo when you need him :evilfrown:

[Sideways]

31. Common Touch My Ass

You STATE...Everyone in the media acknowledges this. FUCK THE MEDIA. They can acknowledge shit and pronounce it healthy for one's diet...would you eat it? Don't answer I'm afraid you just might.


The REAL ISSUE dude is that the media is cramming a LIE down peoples throats. Bush has never had a common touch he loathes the common people is more like it. Your second comment about taking that(his manufactured common touch)away and you have nothing is EXACTLY right. Although I don't think that was your intent. PSST your pom-poms are showing.

But guess what dude 62 million people just witnessed with their own eyes that this myth of the common touch is just that.... A FUCKING MYTH. They saw Bush in his petulant pissy arrogant self absorbed and hateful glory. He has finally been EXPOSED for the asshole he has been his entire miserable life.

Your thread is suspect on so many many levels. People please rate this thread a 0.

[TexasSissy]

34. I've already predicted a * win for Debate #2. Then a big Kerry win

for Debate #3.

But Kerry will do fine @ Debate #2. He's been speaking to small crowds for years longer than Bush. He'll do just fine.

It's just that townhall mtgs fit Bush's natural style much better than podiums. Bush will probably win this one.

Still.....it's not a given. Kerry COULD win it, or it could be a draw.

I don't think that Kerry's win in Debate #1 translates into winning the election, or even to coming out ahead in the polls next week. I think it'll take another debate win, which will probably be Debate #3.

Kerry or Bush could lose any of the debates, or the election, by making some serious gaffe, which hasn't happened yet. So anything can happen. But Kerry is definitely in the game, and he cannot afford to screw up Debate #2. I'll be happy if he just maintains his status. (but a win would be nice)

[ZombieNixon]

35. Maybe we need to mark threads that involve

reverse psychological arguments. In addition to similies for "game face" we need one for "reverse psych." See where I'm going?

[DinahMoeHum]

36. You mean, like "Devil's Advocate"?

:evilgrin:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

37. Reverse psychology is hard work.

Get it?

[ZombieNixon]

39. So THAT'S what's he's been using on us all this time

eom

[The Chronicler]

38. Bush's worst performance of the '00 debates was the town hall

format. Should be interesting