If they elect him, this time it will be the American people's fault

[bluestateguy]

In 2000 we could lay the blame at the feet of the Bush team for stealing the election. We could blame Al Gore for running a fairly lackluster campaign. We could blame Ralph Nader for swinging the election to Bush. The man selected as president did not even win the most votes, nor did most Americans really expect him to do everything he actually did over the last four years. Indeed, Bush did not campaign as a fire-breathing neo-con. Most of the rest of the world realizes this, and they make a distinction between the American people, who they still like, and its government, which they hate.

Should George W. Bush be reinstalled as president for four more years, then all bets are off.

Some people, including some here at DU, will be inclined to begin recriminations against John Kerry, should he be defeated. I will not be one of them. Kerry is not running a perfect campaign, but this time the blame must lie with the American people if they choose to not remove Baby Bush from office. There is just too much overwhelming evidence that demands it. In 2004, my only response to a Bush victory will be that it is the fault of the American people. Not Kerry, not Nader, not the corporate media and not the DNC. Absent clear evidence that Bush stole another election, I will just say that the people are getting what they deserve. And oh will they get it.

[alittlelark]

1. WE, the PEOPLE will not, but BBV might

WE, THE PEOPLE then need to decide what to do.....

[4morewars]

2. It could happen !

This thing is not over, not by a long shot !!
I had a very sad phone conversation with an old friend of mine earlier tonight. He's my age (41) and we have been friends since we were 14. We have always been on the same side politically. This guy was the vice president of his local union at one time, and was always active in the labor movement. He is in New Jersey, which went for Gore in 2000 and has always been a dem stronghold ( I am in Michigan now) It was very disturbing to hear him parrot the right wing bull shit, and I had NO luck convincing him otherwise, and I have some experience in campaigning, phone banks, etc. I hope he is not the typical voter in NJ as we need those 20 or so EVs.

[grasswire]

13. send this guy John Eisenhower's letter

Maybe it will help.

[flordehinojos]

3. Is it not possible that voting machines, like those here in Florida

for which Jeb Bush, and in Broward County his supervisor of elections Brenda Snipes are refusing to install paper trails, may speak, unverifiably so, against what americans have truly said in their voting this Nov. 2nd elections?

In other words, is it possible that the voters may say one thing, the machines another, and that there might be no way to have accountability for what the voters said since Jeb Bush, Brenda Snipes, Secretary Hood and many others in Jeb Bush's administration, refuse to put paper trails in the voting machines?

I think there are a lot of people who will be voting for Kerry. I also think theere are many machines which are going to be rigged, many voters who already and will continue to be intimidated in the florida soil.

The bush mantra is win at all cost but never appear to want to win.
Something that was passed on to them from GHWB's mother, Dorothy Walker.

[secular_warrior]

4. Disagree - It would be the opposition party's fault

It is the opposition party's duty to oppose, to do whatever it takes to win legally.


If we lose because the people were misinformed - it is our fault for not standing up and telling the people the truth, for not pounding it into their heads until they understood it.

If we lose because of the media - then it is our fault for not having a better media strategy and standing by why the Republicans built a ruthless media machine.

If we lose because of corporations - it is our fault for being the corporate-lite party for the past 10 years and not standing up to oppose the stranglehold of corporate power on our government.

If we lose because Jebby and/or BBV stole it - it is our fault for not standing up and preventing it before it happened.

If we lose because we ran a bad campaign - it is our fault putting softballers like Shrum and Cahill in such high positions, for allowing them to get so high up in this party.

If we lose because we were too incoherent/wishy washy/moderate- it is our fault for allowing the DLC to gain so much power over this party.

If we lose because of Nader, it is our fault for letting those voters slip away from us because we were too busy couring the DLC moms.

If we lose, it is our fault. We have not done everything possible over the past 30 years to be a strong, opposition party to Republican conservatism. If we had, it wouldn't be our fault. But we haven't.

ps. by "we", I am referring to everyone on the Democratic side of the fight.

ps2. We are not going to lose this time. But when Kerry gets in, the fight would've just begun. The Republicans are 30 years ahead of us. Until we wake up and take responsibility, we will continue to be the minority party in this country.

[RafterMan]

7. Correct on all counts

This is the only productive way to think about the question.

But Bush is not going to win.

[4morewars]

8. Well said, man !!!!!

I really could not have said it better !!! In fact, would you mind if i used this ? "fair use" ?
And I couldn't agree more with the second ps (pps,ps2 is a video game), When Kerry gets the job, the repubs are going to go after him like a pitbull on a poodle !!!! This party needs a good purging, too many zell millers, and joe liebermans, not to mention the third rate hacks behind the scenes (well, you did mention a couple)

[secular_warrior]

9. Thanks - yeah go ahead use it - we need more responsibility on our side

It can't always be the fault of "them" (whoever "them" may be).

If it is never our fault it is never our duty to fix it.

[4morewars]

11. Thanks, bro !

I'll probably print it up and hand it out to people that are already on board, or close to being on board. We can use the momentum that is building now, to change the party. Back to the party that stands up to the machine, instead of the party that bends over for the machine !
Thanks again, JOE
:yourock:

[secular_warrior]

16. No problem - but I should also add

if we lost consistently because of our ideas don't appeal to the people (like a very hard shift to the left) we have also failed as an opposition party. Our job is to have a strong, coherent oppositon to conservatism WHILE also being able to sell it to the people BECAUSE if we cannot sell it the conservative majority grows bigger and stronger while we stand by with our utopian idealism. McGovern's campaign failed the people as much as the DLC's has.

[bluestateguy]

10. I would agree with you if this were the political universe of 2000

I would agree with you if this were the year 2000, but in 2004 the evidence is overwhelming, and at some point the American people must also share the responsibiliy for ending this national emergency.

Where is the responsibility of the average American for the government that they choose? At what point do you have to say to the people that they did not do their job to remove a disastarous administration?

I can already sense that many people, including some at DU, are preparing to initiate recriminations against Kerry and the Democrats on November 3rd if Bush is elected.

[secular_warrior]

12. But we are the opposition party

It's our patriotic duty to make sure the people understand, to make sure we have a strong, coherent opposition to the majority party. I simply do not believe rational people would elect this misleader if they knew the truth. It is nobody's job but ours to point out the truth. Sure the people are ultimately to blame for not informing themselves, but we know they will not do this on their own, therefore it our patriotic duty to make them know. To stand up and oppose the majority party.

We don't. We haven't for 1/3 of a century.

And I would never blame Kerry personally if he were to lose. Dean would not have stood a chance against this crowd despite his (mostly) correct message.

And I hope nobody gets the impression that I'm advocating a hard shift to the left or a return to the liberal utopianism of the '60s and '70s. I should've also added to my rant this:

"If we lose because we moved too far to the left or became overly idealistic/utopian, it is our fault for not coming up with an attractive, pragmatic liberal opposition to conservatism; a strong, innovative liberalism which is attractive enough to build a majority coalition while not being so watered down it resembles conservatism itself."

[RafterMan]

14. Sensing...

"I can already sense that many people, including some at DU, are preparing to initiate recriminations against Kerry and the Democrats on November 3rd if Bush is elected."

And I can already sense that many people, including some at DU, are preparing to initiate a campaign of ass-covering and finger pointing on November 3rd if Bush is elected.

But Bush isn't going to be elected, so why start it now?

[Crunchy Frog]

18. I agree with you bluestate.

In the end, the only choices that I can take responsibility for are my own. Everybody else has the same responsibility for their own choices. If someone chooses to vote a certain way because they care more about what's going on in some strangers bedroom or uterus than about their own self interest, they must accept responsibility for that choice and its consequences.

We can do all the persuading in the world, but ultimately, each person makes his or her own choice. The choices are very clear in this election. The information is there for anyone who'se not in a persistent vegetative state.

It's the Republicans, not the Democrats who don't believe in personal responsibility, who always say that their own decisions and their consequences are somebody else's fault.

[RoyGBiv]

5. Totally Agree n/t

[BlueEyedSon]

6. Blame the MASS MEDIA

[951]

15. I will find it hard not to smash in the faces of the toothless bastards

but with time and turning off the TV I can handle it

[izzie]

17. Well if the people who vote want the guy he could win.

Even people who seem to be hurt by what he does seem to like him. I do not see what one can do. He just may win.What I hate about that is, where as the Dem say we wish to do this and you can have the right to do it or not the GOP now just tells you, we do not believe in it so you can not do it.