HELP WITH KERRY CHEATING THING!

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

On the other message board I go to (ivillage.com and the poltics today board) people are saying Kerry cheated at the debate. Someone said that when Kerry got to the podium he took out note cards out of his pocket and his pens and paper were all distractions. They claim to have video proof: I was wondering if anybody here had any video proof? If you want and can it'd be great to come join me defending Kerry.

[Kimber Scott]

1. Did they show you the "proof?"

Nuff said.

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

16. Yes, I asked later and am now waiting to see if they reply

[sherilocks]

30. Here is a link for the video

It looks like JK is taking a hankerchief out of his pocket, to keep from getting sweaty.

http://www.dailyrecycler.com/blog/2004/10/winners-never-cheat.html

[Kimber Scott]

39. Looks like he pulled a pen out to me.

But, he had to have cheated. How else could he have gotten Bush to look like he'd shit himself on stage?

[theorist]

40. It doesn't even look like he pulled anything out to me.

Maybe he was adjusting something in his coat. A wireless mic transmitter perhaps? :shrug:

[NMDemDist2]

2. always make them prove it

they never can and they go away for a while IME

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. Tell them to post the proof

[Dogmudgeon]

4. Fair fighting is considered "cheating" by the GOP

No video proof is necessary. They made the charge, so make them do the work.

Just Say "Prove It!"

--bkl

[NJmaverick]

5. LOL! Was the pen magic???

Did it have the power to make bush look like a chimp???

[ZombieNixon]

10. You don't need magic to do that!

LOL

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

64. LOL at the pen being magic.

It was one of those USA pens that flash blue and white. We have one of those and you can stare at it for hrs. LOL.

[Shoeempress]

6. Not to mention note cards don't help if you can't think on your feet. I

believe the words you are looking for is "sore loser"

[skygazer]

7. Proof of what?

That he had pens and something to take notes on? That he knows how to use writing implements?

Tell them you have video proof that Bush had vodka in that glass he kept clutching - makes about as much sense.

[Tim_in_HK]

8. It's bullshit.

Just ignore. Drudge-led rumour.

[grannylib]

9. Oh for heaven's sake...if he HAD cheated, and had done all that at the

podium, it would have been pretty obvious, and you can be sure that the ReThugs would have already been all over it, video and all.
I am sure they both must have been allowed to TAKE notes, it was obvious they both had paper and pens (or in Chimpy's case, a coloring book and crayons)
If Kerry were cheating, he certainly would not have been so stupid as to make it that obvious.
Chimpy, on the other hand, really doesn't need to worry. He's been cheating all his life in one way or another, and gets a fuckin' pass every time.


on edit: typo

[incapsulated]

17. They were allowed to take notes, it's in the rules

Any pen and paper had to undergo "inspection" before the debate started, as well, lol. It said nothing about not being allowed to, after inspection, put your pen in your pocket until you are ready to use it.

Unless Kerry was planning to run over and stick it in W's neck or something.

[fugue]

35. Actually there is

Read subparagraph 5(d) of the agreement. It says the candidates will give the writing implements to the Commission, who will examine them and place them on the podium.

It looks, however, like that did not happen. It appeared that both had their implements on them when they walked on stage.

[TheWebHead]

37. I would have brought a backup pen

if the one on the podium had a dry spot in the ink... It's not like you can ask Jim Lehrer for another pen in the biggest moment of your life.

[incapsulated]

41. Hmmm, you're right

They changed the rules at the last minute! Call the authorities!

[Norbert]

11. No matter what the bitter-beer-face freepers will believe what they want

Without proof they have nothing.

This is likely going to backfire. I have a feeling the undecideds will take a dim view of this form of sour grapes.

[sushi]

20. That's what it is!

Sour grapes.

[DrBB]

12. Don't debate them, ASK THEM THIS:

So, excuse me guys, but I'm trying to think what Kerry could have had in his pockets that could have forced Bush to make idiotic chimp faces, ask for extra time and then stand there with his mouth open, keep offending the nation's deer with his lame impression of how they look in the headlights, and utter ludicrously feckless comebacks like "You fergot Poland!" So far I've got nothing.

--Feel free to copy that directly if you like. I've found it quite effective.

Another approach: List things Kerry could have pulled from his pocket to have this effect. Clearly candidate #1 (thanks to a poster at Atrios named Yoshimi) is:

A can of whoop-ass!

on edit: In other words, put them on the defensive f'r cripesake and KEEP them there. Sheesh.

[snippy]

25. Perhaps Kerry took a bright shiny object out of his pocket and

showed it to Bush. Maybe a brand new penny or a piece of tinfoil. Something like that could distract and entertain Bush for hours. Rove and Cheney probably give him a similar reward when he performs as instructed. Bush's frustration at the debate may have been due to the fact he was not given the bright shiny object even though he performed the conditioned response. This seems like the most likely explanation.

[NightOwwl]

46. Or a doggy biscuit, perhaps?

Karl gets a kick out of watching Bush beg. I hear he likes Alpo the best.

[Warren DeMontague]

47. The "notes" contained hard-to-remember, obscure facts, like:

"Osama Bin Laden, Not Saddam Hussein, attacked us on 9-11"

[DebJ]

13. speaking the truth and knowing what you are talking about is

'cheating' in repuke language.

[DebJ]

14. 'cause the real agendas are supposed to be secret,shhh!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

15. There are half a dozen other threads already

with this bullshit, but thanks just the same.

[liberalmuse]

18. Pathetic!

As usual, wingnuts make an accusation and obsolve themselves of having to offer up an ounce of proof.

There is plenty of proof that Kerry is very intelligent and Bush is an arrogant, bumbling idiot who thinks he can get away with offering up hollow soundbites. Bush was out of his league as soon as Kerry showed up to debate him and that is why the wingnuts are all in a tizzy.

[Bluebear]

61. Indeed

[Flammable Materials]

19. Here's your proof right here:

:evilgrin:

[ClassWarrior]

21. Actually, if you look at the video - there's a thread here with it...

...it looks like JK's taking out a pen and Junior is unfolding a sheet of paper. And this was on a postage-stamp sized QT movie. So I say BRING IT ON.

23.

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

60. Do you have a link of the movie?

I'd love to show this other board with reps on it that Bush was taking out a piece of paper. Maybe then they'd shut up about accusing Kerry of cheating.

[troubleinwinter]

22. Tell em...

Kerry had to do SOMETHING with his spare time while Chimp was blowing hot air out his ass, so Kerry brought a draft of his inaugural speech to edit.

[Jade Fox]

23. Does anyone really think Kerry would be so stupid as to cheat....

while 62 million people are watching?

Ludicrous.

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

65. Right and I told them that

Kerry is already under heavy watching by the media so he would be a fool to do anything to show cheating. Why would he when he could lose voter's? He's trying to gain them. So it'd be pretty stupid eh? :eyes:

[Maple]

24. The entire nation

AND the debate monitors who were supposed to enforce the 'rules' saw everything that happened. Everything was legit, kosher, and according to the artificial rules BushCo set up.

Days later after it's clear Bush lost, suddenly grainy film shows up with a question added to plant doubt.

Figure it out.

[DrBB]

26. What's THEIR theory? A stupidity raygun?

Like I said, put THEM on the defensive. What could Kerry POSSIBLY have pulled out of his pocket that could have made Bush perform like a brain damaged potato(e) head?

[wishlist]

27. Bush is the one who needs a script for most of his campaign speeches!

Anyone who has watched any of Bush's campaign speeches will notice that he is constantly turning pages at the podium in order to keep on track and know what to say, whereas Kerry uses scripted pages much less often. Every time Kerry is perceived to have any advantage over Bush, the RWingers begin making up stories in order to diminish Kerry and try to drag him down to Bush's level of mediocrity.

Kerry was obviously not reading cue cards while he was giving his responses to questions and he was able to think on his feet and respond quickly and coherently, unlike Bush.

Bush was the one who broke some of the rules by interrrupting, adding rebuttals that he wasn't supposed to get and addressing Kerry directly at least once.

[Onlooker]

28. The only people who are saying that are partisan Republicans

You can't cheat with notes in a debate. Think about it. What could those notes have said that Kerry could have possibly referred to in the 90-120 seconds he had?

I would also point out to them that what Kerry did had nothing to do with Bush's failure to articulate or defend his policies.

[troublemaker]

29. Kerry DID cheat. He had a cheat sheet inside his left sleeve

It said, "Keep pointing out that Bush is a fucking fool."

[A-Schwarzenegger]

31. Yeah Kerry cheated--he was born with brains in his skull

instead of straw & string.

[Kahuna]

32. That's KKKrap! Kerry took a pen out of his pocket. As did *.

Calm down.

[wurzel]

33. How did Kerry affect what Bush did?

The issue is not Kerry but Bush. The man is incompetant.

[girl gone mad]

34. ivillage?

I'm sure many of them are mothers. Ask them what their children say when someone beats them at anything.

"No fair. You cheated! Mommy, he cheated!"

[dixiechiken]

36. My reply has been to point out in no uncertain terms...

...how STUPID they are by simply reminding them:


Jeeeeeeeeeesus... we've got record deficits, 44 million Americans without health coverage, we're in the middle of two wars that have thus far claimed the lives of over 1,000 American soldiers, over 130 coalition troops and thousands upon thousands of Iraqi and Afghani civilians, and you people are concerned about whether or not John Kerry smuggled crib notes into the debate?!?!?!?!?!?

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:




So far, it's shut 'em up every time! :)

[PA Democrat]

38. OMG! Kerry had the super-sonic remote control voodoo face grimace

transmitter! Bush couldn't HELP making those faces. Kerry was in control of Bush's facial muscles. That was NO ordinary pen folks. SHH! Don't tell the freepers.

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I1903-2004Oct01

[xg0blin]

42. I watched the video and I read the 32 pages of the rules

If he brought *anything* on stage with him, it was against the rules. I know I'm going to get flamed by this, but this was a fuck-up that could probably hurt the Kerry campaign if it gets out in the news. This sucks. He wasn't allowed to bring anything on stage. Pens and pencils were supposed to be surrendered to the moderators, checked and placed on the podium for the candidate. I really hope he just had an itch or something, but it looks like he has something in his hand. :(

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xg0blin]

51. Are you accusing me of being a Bush supporter?

Read some of my other posts. I am not. I absolutely <b>loath</b> Bush. I wrote like a page rant about it. I just watched the video and saw Kerry pull something out of his pocket. I then went and read the rules. It appears that Kerry may have inadvertantly broke the rules and I was just stating I hope it doesn't get out.

Your response is more reminiscent of a scum freeper than mine. I just told what I saw and read online. You flame me for it. It wasn't partisan, I just know what I saw. You expect me to ignore my own eyes? Do I think it was a big deal? No. I think he may have bought his note paper on in his pocket or something and not realized that he wasn't supposed to or something. Or maybe a pen. How should I know what it is? I did watch a video of the debate, and he did pull something out of his pocket though, and you can't expect me to ignore my own eyes or be labeled a closet Bush supporter.

EDIT: If you have any question where I stand or who I stand for, read my posts on this board. I say the same as I say here, that it looks like Kerry may have broken the rules, but I posted several arguments as to why I have Bush. Probably hundreds. I've gotten PMs from literally dozens of people on this board who say I swayed them into switching sides or voting at all.

<A HREF="http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/viewprofile.asp?ID=32089&mode=cp">My profile</A>

[Spiffarino]

55. OK

Please post a link to your DU rant. I'll be happy to read it.

But keep in mind that low-posters who post "be afraid" messages leave themselves exposed to suspicion. If I was out of line, I will be all too happy to admit it.

[xg0blin]

56. If you don't mind giving me a hand

I posted it in the general forum a few days ago. It won't show me my posts older than 24 hours. I have the same rant posted on a different forum and I'll post a link to it. Is there a way to find posts older than 24 hours?

Here is the same rant on another board:

<A HREF="http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=273666&whichpage=8�">My Rant</A>

I have been VERY wrongfully accussed. I just try to look at things objectively, and I have a habit of doing that even if it doesn't support my own view of things.

[Spiffarino]

66. I did the same thing here a couple of times

...and was severely flamed, so I am not unsympathetic. Understand that this sort of thing happens around here a lot from people who post from Freepville.

The fact that you haven't been tombstoned speaks well of you...

;)

[xg0blin]

68. I'm new here

What does tombstoned mean? Banned? That would suck. I really, sincerely am not a Bush supporter. I'm an engineer and I just have this really dry, detached way of looking at things and sometimes I make people mad I guess. I don't mean it to come across like that's my view, it's just a simple statement of what I saw to me. I guess it's just who I am. I suppose you felt the same way when it happened to you :)

[Cheswick2.0]

50. Watch the video again and tell me what bush took out of his pocket

? HUH?

[xg0blin]

54. I'm not saying it wasn't

I'm just saying it appears to be breaking a rule and that could pose bad for Kerry. I don't want that anymore than you do. Just the accusation in the press could cause Kerry to lose his bounce in the polls because people will think he cheated if the media says he did. I'm not saying that's what I want (it's not). I'm just saying it looks bad and certainly appears to be a rule being broken.

[spotbird]

70. As long as you are certain that you want

chimps violations shown equally keep this up.

There is a sudden media interest in chimp and his antics, and this wind will blow both ways.

[Hot Water]

52. Whatever Kerry did was 1000% in compliance

with whatever he knew he could do, or last minute changes that were agreed to.

He could lose the whole left side of his brain and still be smarter than dickhead.

[Mr_Spock]

57. You must be retarded if you are thinking this is worth discussing

This is all this "cheating" stuff adds up to>

OMFG - what a bunch of whiners.

[NightOwwl]

43. Oh for God's sake.

Just fucking fuggidaboutit. :eyes:

[are_we_united_yet]

44. THANK YOU!

I couldn't of said it better myself!

[Rosco T.]

45. Here's all you need to shut them up...

[Spiffarino]

48. Or this...

Hard work!

[Cooley Hurd]

53. When I slowed down the video, I saw Kerry stuffing documents...

...in his socks! :evilgrin:

[Mr_Spock]

58. LOL - I think you got the jist of this story

:D :eyes:

[Lefta Dissenter]

71. yeah,

and if you play it backwards, you can actually see Cheney shove his arm up the chimp's ass to run the mouth...

[librechik]

59. Everybody look at this: has pix of Bush using notes at podium

Their video is "balanced" by this--spread it around
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=961492&mesg_id=961492

[Warren DeMontague]

62. Here's the can

[NYC Liberal]

63. Jesus

Bush did the SAME THING. Go watch the video Drudge links to on full screen and watch Bush.

[Spiffarino]

67. This is such an non-issue that

...it must come right out of Rove's handbook:

1. Find plausible lie
2. Find willing henchmen to play along
3. Sow doubt in the minds of the stupid and gullible
4. Sit back and watch the fun

[zulchzulu]

69. Tell the Freepers to actually WATCH the debate

Whether Kerry had anything that the candy-assed Freepers find to be something that only Bush would need to have, tell the Chimpheads to actually watch the debate.

Kerry is 99% OFF using notes during the ENTIRE 90 minutes. He knows his shit.

Chimpheads think that poiticians need cheat sheets to survive a 90-minute debate. Kerry doesn't.