Old Time DU'ers: Do you still feel "Gore Won in Fla" & War was a Lie is

[KoKo]

worth pursuing? Or, do you feel we should just move along...because what's done is done and we gotta just "clean up the mess?" Just curious because I'm hearing much that's asking us to do just that. "Move On" from "Gore Won Florida" but "Media Consortium" investigation which would have proved it went down in the 9/11 attack...so it's not worth bothering about...and "So What if Bush Administration lied about WMD/BIOLOGICAL/CHEMICAL? We are in Iraq and it's a Mess ...so we need to "Move On and figure out how to fix it." What's past is past...don't look back but move forward because we just can't fix what went wrong.

Are they correct? Should we never "FIX" what went wrong? And, if we don't how do we plan for the future so that "what went wrong" never happens agains?

We have folks from Nixon, Reagan (Iran Contra), Bush I (Savings & Loan Disaster) and now Bush II with (well there's too much to even list of his disasters)...all with the same old "Cast of Characters" from previous Repug Administrations. And, I haven't even listed the half of it!

ON EDIT: Old time DU'ers...Those over 45 who have been here since the
"Selction" and those under 45 who've been here almost as long as when there were only 15 to 100 members of DU...Over two years is good enough! :D...Sorry, I didn't clarify.

Is the "broom sweep into the dustbin and out to the dump" the way to deal with this? When will it ever end if we forget about it? :shrug:

[MasonJar]

1. We need to stay on top of everything all the time or they will pull

the same again and again.

[carpe_vinum]

2. Mixed reaction here

As a Florida voter I think the "Gore won Florida" issue is deader than a doornail. However, voting procedures should remain in the spotlight. I think people should concentrate on what is happening in Florida in 2004. i.e. Glenda Hood's actions and the counties with paperless balloting.

The "war was a lie" is still topical and deserves hounding.

[KoKo]

5. Would you say, then: "Move On" but never forget because they will do it

again to another sleeping populace...or Move On and forget? Dwelling on the Past doesn't solve anything?

I belong to the those who "forget the past...are doomed to repeat it" crowd, but maybe I'm out of touch...that's why I asked in my post. :shrug:

[carpe_vinum]

12. Oh no, I don't think people should forget at all!

I just think they should take a forward looking approach to the situation. Stop focusing on Gore's "loss" and start working on the issues that lead to it happening in the first place. I've heard too many people moaning about "Gore should have won" but then not taking action to make sure it doesn't happen again. It makes them sound like sore losers rather than citizens concerned about everyone's voice being heard. I had wine with dinner. Am I making any sense?

[KittyWampus]

3. What The Fuck Is An "Old Time Du'er"?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. Not me.

I'm a Johhny Come Lately in comparison to some around here. Just getting my sea legs.

[KoKo]

9. ROFL....you've been here a long time....unless someone assumed your

name. :D....

[TruthIsAll]

13. Do I qualify? If so, I say YES, SHOUT IT LOUD! THEY STOLE IT!

I've been saying this for 10,000 posts, give or take a grand.

My biggest frustration is that the full extent of the fraud, although well-documented, has never been publicized - by the whore media or the tu-tu Dems.

Talk about unreported crimes.

[Cha]

7. I feel like one even though

I've only been here two years..

[KoKo]

8. Over 45 who's been here since "Selection." Or.... under 45 who's been

here since the "Selection." I apologize for not being clearer. I was trying to reach a "target audience." But was not clear....

You've been here...what do you think?

[0007]

10. That's what I'd like to know?

Perhaps the young lady meant to say "Good Timer Du'er, 'eh?

Ho Hum!

[KoKo]

17. Oh, 0007 I think you were here before me or just when I came...you are

defintely one of those whom I know went through all this...

[Cha]

6. I think Gore won and it will come out through

history ..right now..the main thing is it doesn't happen again.

[mistertrickster]

11. They never forget--they're still harping on Jimmy Carter, fer gosh sakes.

"Remember the hanging chads" might not be much of a rallying cry.

But I don't plan to forget it. When the Supremes handed the pResidency to Bush, it taught me a lesson we liberals need to never forget--right wingers are right wingers first, and anything else second.

That is, if they claim to be judges, they are right-wingers first and judges second. If they are college professors, journalists, tv or radio talk show hosts, whatever, they will do whatever it takes to further their cause. The ends justify the means, for they are RIGHT, dammit.

Right wing "Christians" are the worst, of course, for if there is any religion that says "help your poor brothers and sisters" and "don't kill people," it is Christianity. But even their religion must be sacrificed at the altar of their true piety--right wing orthodoxy.

Bush v Gore is already in the history books as one of the worst decisions since Plessy v Ferguson or Dred Scot. Whether this generation remembers or not--history will not forget how this Court whored itself out for power.

[KoKo]

14. It's true. "THEY" NEVER FORGET...that's why they are "Elephants" and

the old saying was: "Elephants never forget."

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. I think it is more than worth pursuing.

We are obligated to. They stole the election. For the first time in history the SCOTUS selected our president. Greg Palast has the evidence of purged voters. The state of FL. settled the voter purge cases out of court to cover up what they did. Blacks were disenfranchised. The entire world is in DANGER because of what happened in FL. My HOPE is that John Kerry will do an Iran/Contra investigation into the BFEE and finally stop these people. Someone has to, I pray it's Kerry. I want to see the entire BFEE in orange jumpsuits and handcuffs along with the entire chimp administration, the Florida politicians who stole the election, Tom Delay and his ilk and any neo-con involved in lying about Iraq. The dirt is so deep around these people and I wanted it ALL dug out. I want them ALL to pay for what they have done. We should NEVER forget what they did. JMCPO

[KoKo]

16. If we forget about it...what happens to courageous journalists like Palast

and our new liberal bloggers? If we don't keep it alive who will be left to tell the tale?

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. Who will be left to tell the tale? No one.

That's what scares me. Have you seen "Orwell Rolls in His Grave?" It's about the corporate media and our corrupt government. They, the repukes, are going to start in on the internet if they win this election. We are their Achilles Heel. They have to stop us. And will, if reSelected. It part of their agenda.

In Orwell Rolls in His Grave, Greg Palast tells a story about CBS and the investigative story he did on the purged voters. CBS called him and asked if they could do the story and Greg told them to run with it. After a few weeks, he didn't see their report so he called them to see what was going on. They told him they had decided not to do the story and Greg asked WHY? and was told that they had called Jeb Bush and Jeb said Greg's story was not true! THAT IS WHY THEY DIDN'T DO THE STORY! They depended on the word of Jeb Bush and dropped the story. Sad, scary, unbelievable and infuriating.

We NEED Greg Palast and more journalists like him. We MUST keep this alive and it MUST be investigated. The criminals MUST pay because, as you say, it will never stop. When Kerry is elected we need to INSIST that the BFEE is investigated. Kerry must hold them accountable...ALL of them.

[papau]

18. I agree - but not as election issue in 04 - it's a legal issue - and

in future elections we should use the facts to remind folks about GOP character and values.

[Catch22Dem]

19. I say move on, but I'll never forget...it changed me forever...

I will never view politics as a spectator sport again. I will never let these motherfuckers get away with an inch, as long as I breathe the clean air Clinton gave us.

[knowbody0]

20. im an old time hippie/anti war

blah blah blah..and i believe that nations have karma.the lies, the carnage, the atrocities, the genocide, are all a part of our heritage. denial is novicain, not remedy. imagine this time in history splayed out in the school books say 50 years from now. imagine the globe rising up against the illegal invasion and occupation of iraq. imagine sanctions against our nation. amerika has the biggest guns but the least respect. we have not healed from vietnam, its legacy of broken people. the pentagon investigations of attrocities in 1975 validating kerry's accusations was buried because the war had ended. it comes back now to haunt us.
our anthem brags about the rockets red glare the bombs bursting in air. we need to look at ourselves in this new age of information and use the tools available to unravel and admit to our errors. i love the idea of amerika but am ashamed of its realities

[FloridaPat]

21. Put the bastards in jail for treason. If you don't put them in jail they

keepy coming back. They spent 12 years covering up Iran-Contra and everything else Reagan/Bush did that was illegal, and they got away with it. Then they spent 8 years trying to find anything on Clinton. Now here we are again with them covering up everything. This crowd makes Reagan look like a saint! Jail them all!

[KoKo]

23. That's what I think...but I worry the "appetite" for this is dying with

DLC/DNC. I know they have a Campaign to win, along with folks like me and all of you out there registering voters, putting up signs and working hard canvassing....but what if they "forget!"

:shrug: I can't forget...but if they don't keep after it...they will lose me after this election because I WILL NEVER FORGET!

Where do folks like me go after Kerry wins...if "they" want to forget, give pardons and sweep it all under the rug as the past?

And the thought crosses my mind that maybe I'm just bitter and vindictive because I WANT to REMEMBER! :shrug:

[Stephanie]

22. We need to have some criminal prosecutions.

Once Kerry is in we need to get those Energy Panel Papers. We need to have an investigation of Jeb Bush & Choice Point re Florida 2000. We need to find out who did the anthrax. We need to investigate the neocons who out CIA agents and give secrets to Chalabi who gives them to Iran and who authorize memos giving bizarre legal justifications for torturing prisoners. We are going to have some FROG MARCHES. Crimes were committed.

[KoKo]

24. I live for that day...but the talk and "chatter" about "Moving On" is

starting to worry me. The only Dem Op I hear talking about Bush lies about WMD/WAR and "Stolen Election" is Howard Dean and he says it every opportunity he gets. But I don't here it from MacAuliff and the rest of the DNC/DLC folks out there on the shows. They all say: "Move On."

So if it's left up to Howard Dean...who do we really have? He's a great spokesperson but he seems to not represent the "mainstream" of the Dem Party...yet it's all the former Dean/Kucinich and anti-Iraq Invasion, Stolen Election folks who are out there working their butt off to get Kerry elected?

Will they feel they owe us anything...after they win? :shrug:

[PurityOfEssence]

25. First, win the election

These issues should definitely be pursued, and if we take the House, that'd be the place to start.

[dweller]

26. NEVER. EVER. FORGET.

the pukes are scrambling furiously to 're-write' history as we speak. 50+ years from now when those of us in the target audience this post is addressed to are gone, or mostly gone, the NEW neocon-history books (if the Lies are left to stand) will have the brave and patriotic war-hero Geedubya *moron landing a fighter jet solo to declare 'mission accomplished' and going on to serve 2 (3? a lifetime) years as pResident vainglorious after single-handedly bring the evil-doer Saddam to custody.

they live on the lies. Expose them, and take them to trial and prison, or die trying.

that's my view.
dp

[KoKo]

27. BRAVO! I feel that way.....but they will try to make us forget. Like

they've done with everything for the last decades.

We will have to write novels the historians wont want to listen to us! Kitty Kelly novels..Robert Ludlum novels. Whatever it takes to get it out there.

[dweller]

29. I just finished recently re-reading

Grapes of Wrath. We need a new Steinbeck.

'cause it's happening again.
dp

[Bucky]

28. Let's say you're at a fantastic restaurant... Biggest menu in the world...

Do you order everything? No. No matter how great every dish is, there's only so much you can fit on your plate. You got to break down the meal into digestable chunks.

Well, the voters are like your stomach. You got to only put as much on the plate as they can handle. If you're limited in what you can put before them, you got to pic the things from the "menu" of fuck ups that Bush has given us that will make the biggest and most dependable impression.

Is the Florida 2000 vote a tragedy? Sure. But is a better vote getter than the war in Iraq or the budget surplus-turned-deficit? I don't think so. It's better to raise the numerous debate points that will help us win rather than get bogged down with yesterday's news.

People want to focus on the present & upcoming disasters rather than relive past injustices. I can't say that's a bad choice.

[GingerSnaps]

30. I will never get over it

Ever!

[Julien Sorel]

31. The best lesson I've learned in life is to pick your battles wisely.

There's a limit to how much capital any person or organization has, and spending it on something that isn't going to pay you anything back is a waste. That's why Iraq is so foolish: it cost us dearly and we get nothing in return. I'd rather not be a part of a domestic, political Iraqi war, especially not on the losing side.

[Terran]

32. We need to pursue the issues that allowed these things to happen

I think the best thing to do, re the 2000 election, is let history judge what happened there. I dare say it will bear out what we all know to be the truth. 9/11 is more complicated. There, I think, a future 9/11 panel that has a genuine non-partisan interest in the truth should be created to ask the rerally hard questions.

[eridani]

34. Fighting for transparent election processes has to be a permanent goal

Paper trails, public oversight of votecounting, yadayadayada. The other side isn't ever going to quit.