Who watched the SECOND Gore-bush debate on CSPAN the other day?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

I did, the whole thing. I actually thought it was fascinating for a few reasons:

1. Just as in the first debate of 2000, bush was able to get away with the "aw shucks" persona. It seemed to work.

2. Gore (hey I love him this is just an observation) seemed a bit eager to distance himself (just a bit) from Clinton. Just something I noticed. He did brag on some things they accomplished, but of course, wanted to stand on his own as a candidate, who can blame him for that?

3. I really think the bush people exploited the Clinton scandal to the nth degree. They don't have that this time.

This time, it is bush's record to defend and it is a dismal one. This time, the Democrat doesn't have the perceived weakness of wanting to stress the positives of the previous administration without linking himself too closely to it.

And again, I saw bush was much more fluent. He spoke more quickly, he formed his thoughts more effectively.

But the BIGGEST thing I noticed as a difference between now and then? Back then, he got away with smirkiness, little jabs at Gore, little snickering with the audience stuff, his open handed "hey I'm just a regular guy, what's this guy trying to do to me?" thing, and claiming to be an "outsider" to Washington (which wasn't completely true but a lot of people bought it).

Well nowdays, the smirkiness and the little jabs and snickering and other things he pulls just look immature and childish. The PRESIDENT isn't supposed to act that way. In other words, he is STILL acting like the CHALLENGER. The challenger can get away with that kind of shit, sometimes. The incumbent NEVER can.

He is still using the same tired emotional (affective) appeals he used in 2000, when he was a challenger, which don't work now, with the added disadvantage of his obvious decline in verbal abilities.

If you haven't caught that second Gore debate on CSPAN and they rerun it, be sure to catch it. Strictly from a political/strategic viewpoint, it is fascinating.

By the way, I thought Gore won that one, too. He was solid and knew his stuff. But bush got too many "brownie points" from the audience for his little faux-exasperated moments ("can I talk now?" said with a little grin) and little digs and "aw shucks I'm just a downhome guy" act.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

1. Ok I'm kicking my own thread

want to see if my armchair analysis of bush in 2000 was correct or not.

[welshTerrier2]

2. a GREAT AD for the Kerry campaign

i saw some of the 10/17/00 debate this morning ...

Gore had just completed saying how supportive he was on increasing military funding ... he said bush wanted to increase military funding by a much smaller amount ...

bush responded with some kind of gibberish about how Gore might be willing to spend more but he (bush) has a better plan for when and when not to use the military ...

bush said he had no intention of getting the U.S. involved in military conflicts all over the world ... and then he added "and if we did need to get involved, I'd make darned sure I had an exit strategy." ...

now isn't that interesting ...

it would make a GREAT AD for the Kerry campaign ...

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

3. Yep he said a good exit strategy

I caught that and about a ton of other lies too.

Their first and only excuse is "but but 9/11 changed everything!! WAHHH!!" Well they can't use that as an excuse forever. The time has come to step up.

[welshTerrier2]

4. so, about this ad ...

OK ... how about this ...

we have an intro we're an announcer asks a very simple question: Are there any Americans who don't understand how important it is to protect the lives of each and every American soldier? No soldier should ever be sent into combat without a clear plan to win the war and a clear exit strategy. let's listen to President bush's own words on this subject:

(play bush quote from the 10/17/00 debate where bush says "we should never commit American troops to war without a clear exit strategy." ... perhaps we play this quote over and over and over while scenes from Iraq showing bombings, burning buildings and beheadings are shown ... a "spinning date meter" in the upper corner of the screen highlights the passage of 18 months of time since the U.S. invasion began ...

then the announcer comes back on and says something like: President bush used the words "Mission Accomplished" ... is this his idea of an exit strategy? ... clearly, it's time for change ...