Should Gen. Clark change his mind ...

[11 Bravo]

and accept the VP slot if Dr. Dean captures the nomination? This is not flame bait. Hell, I still hope that John Kerry gets the nod. But the bottom line is this. Bush must NOT receive a second term, or else we will have lost the SCOTUS for generations to come. My kids would have to pick up that tab. So, with such a possibility in mind, I honestly believe that if Governor Dean does snag the nomination; a Dean/Clark ticket would prove formidable. Imagine, an actual intellect coupled with an actual American fighting man, versus an individual who has never been either one.

[TexasPatriot]

1. no

it wouldnt help... so the discussion is pointless. people didnt vote for bentsen, they wouldnt vote for clark - it's a silly idea that some candidates feel will help offset a likely terminal weakness in their candidate.

[11 Bravo]

6. Please don't attempt to hijack the thread.

There is zero implication of a "terminal weakness" in either candidate. Read the thread literally and check your personal bias at the door.

[TexasPatriot]

17. my point was...

that it doesnt matter - you could put anyone on the ticket as the VP and it wont matter. People dont vote for VPs (or else we never would have had Bush I) - they vote for presidents (or sometimes against presidents). The implication that putting someone on the ticket 'shores them up' is relatively bogus - unless they bring a specific voting machine to the table.

Sometimes you double up to emphasize a strength... like Clinton taking Gore. If you wanted to emphasize the grassroots nature of the Dean campaign - then taking Clark makes sense, but trying to merge those outside the party campaigns with the party machine would be a nightmare (which is why i think it's silly)

otoh, if Dean put, say, Richardson on the ticket, it would give him a good shot at NM, but there really isnt a candidate that will offset the 'perception' of Dean's weakness on fp. Whether that weakness would hurt him too much is up to the voters.

The flip side, of course, is also true. If Clark is the candidate, putting someone on the ticket to shore up a perceived weakness on governing experience, like say Gephardt, wouldnt help him across the board - but it would likely help in the midwest because of the machine.

Whether that weakness would hurt him would also be up to the voters - though i hazard to guess that it is less of an issue than security in people's minds.

[11 Bravo]

18. I don't know if you were alive in 1960,

but if you don't think that LBJ helped Jack Kennedy to achieve a razor-thin victory, I would suggest that you are mistaken.

[BootinUp]

7. The bottom of the ticket

is sort of an insider thing, seems to me. I agree that it does not sway elections much, unless it becomes an issue of whether the VP candidate is qualified.

[stopbush]

16. It might help if you thought outside the box on this one.

First, Dean is hardly "terminal" in any sense of the word. If Dean's campaign has been about anything, it's been about building a grassroots organization. His is truly a campaign of, by and for the people.

VPs are usually selected for geographic considerations. Clark is a Southerner, so he's a natural in the second spot. But I think that Dean isn't thinking along just those lines. I think he truly wants to put together a strong TEAM across the board. Giving Clark the VP spot would - maybe for the first time in history - create a ticket where the VP was more than window dressing.

I'd vote for Clark/Dean, Dean/Clark, Clark/Kerry, Clark/Edwards, Dean/Edwards, Kerry/Edwards or any combo of Dean/Kerry and feel I was voting for an extremely strong ticket. But the thing I really hope for is a Dean/Clark ticket, because the sheer unconventionality of the thing would be unstoppable. Each and every issue the repigs would try to raise against it would be easily diffused. So, unless you think Clark is a totally unflawed candidate (ie: that he has no weaknesses in domestic policy), I would not worry about a lop-sided ticket with a "terminally flawed" candidate at the top.

BTW - FWIW, a lot will happen between now and November, but my gut tells me that domestic ills will be the focus of this election, not the war in Iraq. Why? Well, because the war is going to be going very, VERY badly by the election, and the bushies and their hand-picked media will be doing their damnedest to push it off in a corner of the world that is far removed from the American psyche. Having a military man at the head of the ticket may not be the panacea some think it will be when the entire issue is reduced to "the Dems want us to cut and run."

Domestic issues, however, are pretty hard to cover up, especially as more and more Americans feel the wrath of bush's economic debacle. Having a Dean at the head of the ticket who can point to his sterling domestic record as a governor is going to loom large.

Further BTW - why does it seem like so many Clark supporters are so angry at Dean? Clark is a candidate of very measured response, confidence and inclusiveness. Yet many of his supporters seem angry and unduly provocative. On the other hand, Dean is portrayed as the "angry" candidate. Yet, if one were to judge by the posts at DU, his supporters don't seem to embrace that supposed anger. Why is that?

[TexasPatriot]

23. hrm

my take is that it's 'likely'... i was one of those guys who looked at dean long and hard early on - and liked the passion - but just wasnt convinced he could make it work. The longer i've seen it, the less attractive it's become. That he rubs me wrong isnt uncommon - he has worse negatives than Bush in the last Gallup - and those just keep rising.

i'm not sure about iraq. the 'its security stupid' mantra is already lined up (tried and tested in the midterms) - and if there's one thing we've seen with this batch of pubs is that they're brazen. They dont care if their own guy stole from the cookie jar - if you did too they're going to scream it to high heaven and see if they can outshout you. I dont see a lot of positive vision getting through the mud - and who's 2nd on the ticket isnt going to come up into anyone's vision.

[BootinUp]

A suggestion

In your post you make some good points, but also I think you have fallen into the trap of making broad-brush characterizations of supporters. I just wish we could all avoid doing that, sometimes it just comes out without even thinking about it. But it is not helping, and I will begin pointing this out to both sides from now on.

I am not singling you out so please don't take it that way.

[stopbush]

28. You're right...sorry about painting houses rather than portraits

I'll try to keep it real in the future.

[windansea]

2. imagine just Clark

an actual intellect coupled with an actual American fighting man

[MIMStigator]

3. only if he thinks it helps him run in 2008 cause it won't help Dean win

Dean is doomed

[TacticalPeek]

4. Can't help but note:

"an actual intellect coupled with an actual American fighting man"

I know you mean Dean and Clark, but in some ways the reverse also applies.


And who knows how things might turn out? Just let Bush be gone.

[HFishbine]

10. Nice observation (nt)

[Jerseycoa]

12. Uh uh

"just Clark"

[deminflorida]

5. Looks like due to the recent slide in polls for Dean, he's the one

who should be thinking about V.P.

Shocking that I would even be posting something like this on Jan. 10 isn't it.

[DU9598]

9. Yes

If Dean gets the nomination, as an Edwards supporter (for now) I would support the General as first choice for Dean's VP. I really want General Clark on the ticket as VP. Would love to see his debate with Ch**ey telling Ch**ey what the fighting terrorism really means.

[Marian]

33. I think if Dean doesn't become president

that he and his wife should have a medical practice together and live happily ever after. <sigh>

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Right on! Keep your eyes on the prize!

I think ANY candidate should let ego step aside and accept the VP nomination if the Democrats decide he/she will add strength to the ticket. We MUST have the best and strongest team to go against Bush. They must be strong and resolute, and keep hammering home the truth, because you can rest assured that Rove will be spinning lies and doing his best to do whatever he can to destroy the Democrats.

Which brings it done to us. We are the people who are the sovereigns of our nation. It is up to us to make sure that we preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, and tell the truth to everyone we know, everyone we meet. We must be willing and able to put aside the differences we have during the primary season and work hard to register voters, make sure that voters get to the polls, and make sure people know the message of the Democratic Party.

[Auntie Bush]

20. If you want the best and strongst team

then have a Clark/Dean ticket.

[11 Bravo]

22. I honestly don't care who's at the top of the ticket.

ABB, baby! (And I still hope Kerry is a part of the eventual team.)

[FloridaPat]

11. I'd like to see him on the ticket as pres or VP. He has a lot

going for him being from the military in times of "war" and not being a politician.

[isbister]

32. I think Graham

might be the wiser choice for Dean

[DeanIsAPitbull]

13. I don't think Dean will ask Clark.

He's more interested in true Democrats. Not war criminals.

[Leilani]

34. It's remarks like that elect Republicans

Except for the minority of military haters posting here, there are very few Americans who agree with you.

[Cheswick2.0]

14. I hope not

I don't want him anywhere near the ticket. I know many Dean supporters don't feel as I do, but I don't see my opinions changing on that.

[Leilani]

35. I don't want Clark

near a Dean ticket either.

It would be the 1st failure of his life. I'd rather he go back to Arkansas with an unblemished record.

[Jerseycoa]

15. Won't work on any level

Dean needs a congress person with foreign policy depth for VP.

[Bucky]

19. Yes. Clark is the only one who can plug the obvious hole in Dean's resume

I don't particularly want Dean on the ticket, but if he's there I will scream from the top of my lungs to get Clark to reconsider. The country needs Clark badly, but we need Bush gone more. Anything that will help out, even if it just turns one state, will be something. If only Clark were from Ohio, he'd be perfect for Dean. Right now, however, Clark is from Arkansas and he's only perfect for America.

[Bucky]

21. Yes. oh crap. A dupe

Why do double posts happen to good people?

[AndyTiedye]

30. If Dean is Nominated His VP Should be Someone the BFEE Really Doesn't Like

With Kunich or Braun as VP, Dean won't be assassinated once he is in office.
He should ask JFK about what happens when a President from New England pick a warmonger from the South as running mate.

It's about life insurance.

[retyred]

24. No

Ckark "I will not be howard dean's dick cheney"....nuff said.



retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. Absolutely NOT!

He said he will not be Dean's Dick Cheney. He says what he means and he means what he says. If anyone out there wants Clark on the ticket, you better vote for him. He's not going to be VP.

[arewethereyet]

26. he should change his mind and be a lobbyist

its clear he's no polititian

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. Right,

That's why his poll numbers just keep going up and up, eh? :eyes:

[eileen_d]

29. Dean and Clark on the same ticket IS POSSIBLE

I truly believe this. But I don't think either party (Clark or Dean) is going to say anything to affirm the possibility until one or the other (or another - I like Kerry too) officially gets the nod. Once a nominee has officially been chosen, I think anything goes as far as VP offers. But before that point, you'll be hearing denials and non-denial-denials, because everyone's in it for the presidency.

I post this same message over and over again; maybe hoping it really will be true; but I do have a little faith in common sense once the primaries are finished. (I have negative faith in common sense while the primaries are still on -- this forum being Exhibit A ;) )

[dfong63]

31. no

Dean has other VP choices who would be better.