The continuing saga of the stolen Kerry signs! Fratboys caught

[Generic Other]

As many of you know, our original Kerry sign was stolen on Saturday night after a drunken party at UPS (not the brown van guys). We were very upset by this act and put up a new sign on Sunday morning. I also posted a copy of my sign on DU and complained about rich spoiled "fratboys."

I have now uncovered the true mystery of the missing signs. I suspect many individuals might wish to examine whether similar acts in your own communities might be traced to a similar source.

This morning, Mr. GO was showing some students at the local high school the webpage at DU. One recognized OUR missing sign and said he knew where it was! Apparently, the ROTC students at the college and the local high schools had teamed up to steal all the Kerry signs in town. The high school students were dumb enough to bring the signs to school as trophies. Don't know what happened to the college students involved, but their ROTC instructors are said to be very upset and have insisted that all the signs be returned by tomorrow or
the police will be involved.

Now how's that for a karmic kick in the pants?

Oh yes, and I guess I do owe the innocent spoiled rich "fratboys" an apology unless they also happen to be ROTC.

[Generic Other]

1. The original saga

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=958842&mesg_id=958842

[neuvocat]

2. I'd still call the police for stealing and vandalism.

I was in ROTC myself back in high school. Those idiot ass kids need to be punished for disciplinary issues.

[arewenotdemo]

37. Call the police anyways!

These thefts NEED to be reported to the police and to the news media!

That may help deter future thefts and also should let people know just how democratic the Repukes actually are!

[Jane Austin]

41. Call the police? Heck, call the newspaper and TV stations

n/t

[zulchzulu]

105. Report it to the police...otherwise they will be back

Nothing like a knock on the door from a cop asking to see little Jimmy to get the kid to realize that this is serious.

[MissB]

3. Glad the mystery is solved

And I'm happy to hear that the ROTC instructors are forcing them to return the signs. Hopefully there is other punishment as well.

[SemperEadem]

4. How excellent!

I can't even imagine how delicious that moment must have been for you! Good for you.

[Generic Other]

6. A Francis Scott Key moment

The sign is mangled but can still be waved "o'er the land of the free..."

[txindy]

5. Very cool!

I hope their CO gives them lots and lots of demerits to walk off. Or whatever they do to ROTC guys as punishment. They are giving the service a black eye with this. Their CO must be livid.

Congrats! Hopefully, they remember that they owe you some signs and now you'll have a series right there in the front yard. Yup, I'd say some heavy karma was involved here, all right! :toast:

[Generic Other]

8. I think the look on the Major's face when he was presented the sign stash

approached horror and utter disbelief. To his credit, I might add.

Mr.GO says they brought in a pick-up load of signs.

:)

[Cha]

7. Radical Dude! Good Karma comes back to

you..Bad Karma goes to the Kerry sign stealers!

It must feel really good to know who the culprits are!

[Generic Other]

9. I was offered the culprits names to turn in to the police

I have considered doing so if only to save them from going into the military and getting themselves killed.

Anyone have any advice for a soft-hearted smooshy liberal? I'm sure if a Freeper had to make this decision, punishment would be severe and swift. But I'm not a freeper.

[Wickerman]

11. I think you can hand it back to the CO and tell him you have faith in

his ability to offer an appropriate punishment.

Nice going, btw!

[DebJ]

12. He should make them march for hours while chanting aloud

that they are a pack of dishonorable thieves. Or have them chant the first amendment, over and over and over, until they GET what it is they are supposed to be training to protect in ROTC.

[MockSwede]

44. Yes

I like the punishment, as a minimum!

[lolly]

84. Why stick to first amendment?

Have them handwrite, neatly, an entire copy of the U.S. constitution--then write a paper explaining what it means.

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

86. That's a very good idea

and it'll make them too tired to steal signs and get the amendment in their heads.

[Generic Other]

17. Good advice

I heard they were severely chastised already. Read the riot act!

I expect to see Kerry signs popping back up in people's yards soon. Mr.GO thinks they should be left on people's front porches with notes of apology attached to them!

ROFLMAO

[Wickerman]

19. I can't even imagine how embarassed the CO must be

He has a real discipline problem, and probably wasn't even aware of it 'til now. At the least, he is presented with a wonderful teaching opportunity. As someone else said it would be good for them to learn the bill of rights.

[ReadTomPaine]

65. Yes - that is an unspoken, major issue here. The CO is equally to blame.

These trainees are his direct responsibility.

RTP

[krkaufman]

74. Just a flavor of the effect of Rush Limbaugh broadcasting...

... over Armed Services Radio. Thank dog the regular military only gets an hour a day.

[krkaufman]

73. No way. They should be made to apologize, in person...

... to each household from whom they stole signs. And that would be the *minimum* restitution, in my opinion.

Phase two, I'd like to see them all cough up enough cash to double the quantity of signs, and donate them to the local Kerry Campaign office for distribution as they see fit.

Phase three, ... see my previous posts for more severe sanctions for those in ROTC, especially those in senior positions.

[MADem]

95. I agree, but if I were that ROTC CO

...I'd make the little bastards go to each house, and with their own sweat and materials, repost the signs in the yards from whence they were stolen, in a secure fashion to make stealing them more difficult. If the sign was damaged beyond repair, I'd make them purchase paint and materials and fashion carefully constructed replacements by hand. I would require them to hand-deliver a written, signed letter of apology, and while delivering the letter and also apologizing in person, ask the homeowners to sign a copy acknowledging receipt to be returned to the ROTC CO for insertion in their student file.

Then, I'd put them in hack for two weekends (no boozing, no partying), and make them march on the grinder for 50 hours (not all at the same time--they have to go drill for an hour or two a day, while thinking about their crimes).

Next, I'd require each one of them to write an essay on why honor, courage, and integrity are essential to military service.

Lastly, I'd mark them down on "military bearing" due to their character deficit during the reporting period.

Oh, and they would get an ass-chewing that would make Jack Nicholson's USMC character look like a mewling pussy. They'd be braced...big time!

You gotta nip this shit in the bud--if you don't, you pay for it down the line with a less than reliable asset.

[PsN2Wind]

13. Screw 'em

Let the military have them. If Bush stays in office maybe they get some real quality time in Iraq, Iran, North Korea or wherever Dubya wants to send the little heroes. I would point that out to them were I you. "No formal complaint from me boys as I wouldn't want to deprive you of the opportunity to see what war is like".

[Kingshakabobo]

20. Press charges. You can't rely on th CO....He might...

cover it up. These little cowards have to answer to civilians for their actions. Not the military.
If it costs them their careers, well, that's just too bad. We don't need Hitler youth getting commissions in the armed forces. These kids have character flaws.

[nofurylike]

21. if not, make sure they know they're lucky it's dems making that call.

that they get it who's compassionate in this world.

did it get in the paper? i think it should.

even by ltte.


peace!

[Generic Other]

25. I think they will be forced to read this DU thread

So, please feel free to speak your mind!

[txindy]

22. I'd let their CO punish them, but I would ask to know

what their punishment will be. Also, I'd definitely ask them to return each and every sign personally and voice their deep, deep regret at their incredible ignorance. Let each sign's owner give every last one of them a piece of his/her mind. They owe them that much, at least. Put out the word that the signs have been located and can either be retrieved or delivered with a personal apology coming with each sign.

[Longhorn]

32. I'm afraid stealing some signs while in high school will not

keep them out of the military. As long as it's not a felony and all fines have been paid, the military can be pretty lenient about stuff like that when they're recruiting, from our experience.

[soggy]

58. when it comes to ROTC, they usually are

if these guys don't have political connections to save their asses, they will be held against a very strict code of conduct. and if the media gets a whiff of this, they're done.

[brook]

59. I think you're right.

* was busted by police for stealing a Christmas wreath - and look where he is. :puke:

[luxpara]

46. I got it!!!

You should go to the school and talk to all of them about why Kerry is best for the world!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

51. Tell them you won't press charges in exchange for all of them

sitting and paying attention through a screening of:

Out Foxed
Farenheit 9/11
and

Going Upriver

There will be a thirty question quiz ABOUT the movies at the end...if they pass with at least 2/3 of the answers correct to prove they listened...you will have considered that they rectified the offense. :-)

[theorist]

57. Or even ask a local Dem councilman to come in a speak with them.

Another possibility is to have an expert on the Constitution (not a history teacher/professor preferably, but an attorney) come in and give a dramatic speech about the Bill of Rights and their meaning. Then have them write an essay that you get to grade. (Sounds like a lot of work, though.)

[Cha]

64. Great suggestion!

:)

[Generic Other]

79. We have thought of F9/11. Our copy should arrive tomorrow!

Maybe they'd watch the movie and quit ROTC?

[crispini]

108. Hee hee hee hee hee!

BRILLIANT!

[krkaufman]

71. See my other post.

I'm of the opinion that these kids needs to be kept out of the military, since they've broken a basic trust. They *should* be booted out of ROTC, w/ dishonorable discharges -- if such a thing exists at that level.

[MADem]

10. What IDIOTS!!!

Stealing the signs that support the guy who fought honorably in battle, and leaving the signs up for the twirp that shirked his duty.

Looks like the military pipeline isn't just suffering a quantity deficit, but a quality one as well. What nitwits!

[benito]

16. Make them

Put a Kerry sign in their yard until Christmas. If it gets "removed" they get jail time.

[Generic Other]

18. There are NO Bush signs up in our town

but that's by choice.

[Julian English]

14. Hope a little criminal conviction will bar these hoods from the military

Criminals such as these do not deserve to be in the military.

[cheshire]

15. I think this could be a lesson in not judging...Oh who am I kidding. I

will never trust a republican to act grown up.

[dave123williams]

23. ROTC Participants are bound by an Honor Code...

Which I'm pretty sure covers theft and vandalism.

[Walt Starr]

26. And some in college are bound by the UCMJ

If they are under scholarship or are in the third or fourth year of the program, they are contractually bound to the Reserves and as such can be court martialed in these types of cases, especially if the college group was working with high school ROTC students.

This will, at best, ruin any hope of a career for many of these folks.

[Generic Other]

28. That sounds serious

What would you do, Walt? Call the police? Or let it go?

[Walt Starr]

35. I'd press charges to the fullest extent of the law

These people do not belong in a position of responsibility in the military. Look at what these types of people being in charge lead to in Abu Ghraib!

[Generic Other]

40. You had to say "Abu Ghraib" didn't you?

Damn. I am getting an ulcer now.

At the moment, I am trying to write a coherent statement of how I feel.

Thank you for pointing out the more serious aspects of this story.

[henslee]

63. Exactly. Stick it to them. Send a message. This is an nat'l epidemic.

[ReadTomPaine]

83. I agree with you, Walt. Nicely said. <n/t>

[Generic Other]

29. The local paper wants to talk to me

More later.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

24. Actually what you postes is worrisome.

The worrisome part was this was a sort of mitlary thing...and that it was high schoold AND college ROTC (by college age I would expect ROTC types to know better).

The ROTC are going to be future officers in our military. Now, look at how they are operating as cadets...forming a political attack squad of sorts to go and very obviously take sides in a partisan political campaign.

What does this mean for the future....these guys got caught..and this was just hijinks, but how is a poltiicized military culture going to play in the future?

[Generic Other]

27. They claim my sign made them very angry

You're right. That's pretty pathetic. And frightening.

They don't realize how threatening their little action was. Knowing they are ROTC makes it seem like Americans are being targetted by the military for their political views.

I feel like I am wearing a burkha in my own town.

[dave123williams]

34. Very angry?

Is that supposed to be their excuse for criminal behavior?

Trespassing, theft and vandalism? Is that what we want to see in our next crop of military officers?

You should swear out a warrant for their arrests, immediately. We live in a society goverend by LAW, and their juvenile 'anger' is no excuse for breaking it. They lack the honor to wear the uniform.

Just my $0.02.

[July]

50. Totally agree.

If someone makes us angry enough, we're justified in unlawful behavior? That's what leads to killings of doctors who provide abortions. Civilized people aren't above the law whenever they're angry enough.

[TankLV]

89. I agree. They need to be taught a serious lesson.

Look what happens if you "just let it go" - we get another bunkerboy and cheney and worse.

Got to nip this in the bud.

They should get the fullest punishment possible.

They DO support the rule of law for others, don't they?

At the very least, they should be drummed out of their play-school military club.

It's sickening.

[krkaufman]

78. This isn't an analogy, GO; there's no "like" about it.

You *were* targeted by the military for your political views.

Granted, we can hope it wasn't a direct order from Rummy :), but military personnel banded together to vandalize/steal civilian property (made worse by the fact that the property stolen was your freedom of speech).

[Julian English]

81. Their theft and lack of respect for your freedom speech angers me.

They have a right to be angry. They do not have a right to use criminal means to prevent your exercise of your constitutionally guaranteed rights. Undoubtedly, they swore an oath to protect the Constitution. Here they are violating that oath as well as the law.

Ask them to reconcile that---violating the oath and breaking the law because they could not tolerate the rights of others.

[Bleacher Creature]

30. Excellent!

Keep us posted.

[progressivebydesign]

31. GO, where do you live? Ooops answered my own question..

The only UPS I know of, outside of the delivery company, is University of Puget Sound... but that didn't seem right. Checked your profile and saw that you are in Washington (me too! near Tacoma!). And. the photo you posted looks just like the weather WE'RE having, so I figured it was the UPS I was thinking of. I have noticed that our part of the world has very, very few Bush signs, and very few Bush stickers on cars. Washington is allll Kerry. yay!

Glad you got the sign thing figured out! I'll watch for it in the local newspaper. (NewsTribune?)

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dave123williams]

36. Are you some kind of retard or something?

Volunteered for Combat.
3 Purple Hearts.
2 Silver Stars.

Came back and called that war EXACTLY what it was; BULLSHIT.

End of story.

[Walt Starr]

39. What a bunch of lies!

You're a lying liar!

Buhbye!

[theorist]

60. How many posts did "tomby" have? n/t

[nofurylike]

43. it is like those guys to turn venomous when confronted with the truth.

steal signs, steal elections, all's fair for them to do, ya?

GO is being more reasonable than they even deserve, yet if we DARE to expect them to be able to face the truth, we're in danger from them?!

so sad.


microcosmic, this thread.



peace!

[NEDem]

38. Press charges

Think of them as Hitler Youth. That's how I see them.

[MockSwede]

42. ROTC code of conduct violations

These idiots are is serious trouble. You may want to contact the brass in that group and find out what the students in ROTC swear an OATH to do, as part of ROTC. They can be expelled from program and denied scholarships, etc. THIS IS OFFICER TRAINING FOR THE US MILITARY! My nephew is in AFROTC at Cornell - it's serious business. Do NOT need any of these miscreants continuing down the road like * in NG!!!!

[Generic Other]

45. Bush in the National Guard...

Now you've made me break out in a cold sweat.

[nofurylike]

48. that's what you're going to rescue them from becoming.

write it out.


peace

[MockSwede]

49. Correct

You're going to make sure their CO severly reprimands them with their code of conduct violations and threatens loss of scholarships and this will hopefully save them from going over to the dark side like *, instead of the "I request to serve in Vietnam" Kerry.

[RevCheesehead]

47. Punishment depends on how much you value freedom of speech.

Your rights were violated.
You posted yesterday, and were very angry.
Now that you know who did it, why are you going soft?

Many of life's most valuable lessons are taught in moments like these. Will it get them in trouble with the police? Maybe. But they should have thought of that BEFORE they took the signs.

I get so frustrated when people excuse certain behavior on "youthful indiscretion." Geez, even * claims that! And HE certainly never has been held accountable for anything.

Please call the police...they can handle it from there.

[Hot Water]

52. Pranks are one thing.

This was a deliberate expression of their intent to stop the freedom of expression in one of the most important elections of our lifetime.

The criminal system may not, and probably will not, do anything as drastic as jailing them. But it will be a humiliating and regretful experience they will remember. And surely some punishment will result. They should have to be subjected to that process. And they will remember it when it comes to raising their children.

Why is it any different than stealing your mail?

[krkaufman]

77. Interesting thought you have there.

What if one of these kids turns out to be the next George W Bush?, and his quest for the Presidency could have been snuffed by tangible documentation of his shenanigans? (Ok, maybe a leap, but still...)

[OutInTheBack40]

53. Which Fraternity do they hail from?

And how rich are they?

[Skeet]

102. Good question.

I'd like to hear the answer to it.

[yardwork]

54. I'm horrified that ROTC students did this!!!

I agree with Walt Starr and others on this thread. I have family and good friends who were ROTC and went on to serve as officers with great honor. The thought of ROTC students behaving in this way sickens me.

What does our military defend? The Constitution of the United States of America. What does the Constitution guarantee? Freedom of speech and and free elections where Americans choose their leaders. Why is the president the commander in chief? Because in America, unlike military dictatorships, a civilian elected by the will of the people is in charge of the military.

Bad enough that we have a commander in chief who was AWOL when it was his turn to serve. Bad enough that he wasn't selected by a majority of the people.

To have ROTC students - the future officers who will command troops in the American military - guilty of theft, suppression of free speech, and interfering with an election just sickens me.

I think that every one of them should lose their scholarships and have to serve their committments as privates. That's what happens to ROTC students who don't fulfill their obligations, and that's what should happen to every one of the people involved in this "prank."

[LittleClarkie]

55. I just saw a similar sign at our HQ

It is orange with black lettering and says

"Bush stole the last election and now my Kerry/Edwards sign has been stolen"

(paraphrased)

They are quite popular.

[soggy]

56. the military is VERY strict about the conduct of officers in training

i suspect they would be dealt with EXTREMELY harshly, unless maybe their CO put the idea in their heads.

and yes, definately let the local media know about this. post their contact info here and we'll be all over it.

[krkaufman]

75. Interesting thought you had there.

Was the CO upset because of what they had done? Or because they'd allowed themselves to be caught? (Think Bush/Rumsfeld and Abu Ghraib.)

I'd give the CO the benefit of the doubt, but I would rely on him to handle it. It's outside his jurisdiction; his soldiers vandalized civilian property... on sovereign US soil. Pretty aggregious, I'd think, from a military standpoint.

[CityHall]

61. Threaten RICO suit against ROTC

I'd hate to be those guys right now, there's a good chance they'll take this seriously without any prompting. Call your congressman (if Dem) and generally let the party and the media know. If they can get it on the news, those kids are going to be hating life for a while.

[Generic Other]

66. Your response scares me as it makjes me feel like a big target

My anxiety level is very high all of a sudden. What once felt like a stupid prank takes on a much more serious tone all of a sudden.

Am I gonna get shot?

[dave123williams]

88. Unlikely...

If they didn't shoot at Woodward and Bernstein, you're probably in the clear with your lawn problem.

[DesEtoiles]

62. Force them to do written reports on the Democratic Platform

[Penndems]

67. Congratulations, GO!

I still think the "Virginia" method works best: Have 'em arrested.

What a disgrace to the ROTC. Guess they're learning their skewed moral values and taking their cues from the old master himself: The Village Idiot.

[krkaufman]

68. I'd still go after the ROTCies.

This is hardly the behavior we should be looking for in military officers, and these men/women should be sanctioned in some way -- if not lose their ROTC scholarships. (This is much worse than the left of a candy bar or Tommy Hilfiger shirt. We're talking about military interfering in the political process.)

[Catherine Vincent]

69. That is great the perpetrators were caught.

All the posts on DU stating their Kerry/Edwards signs were stolen, I figured it was mostly college kids. But I figured they would steal the Bush signs too. Btw, I love your new sign! That is great. Be careful, though. Bushies hate it when we say that bush stole the election. LOL.

[Generic Other]

80. The sign's a little worse for wear. Looks like someone kicked it

or maybe they were saluting it?

[TryingToWarnYou]

70. Those ROTC boys should be driven to the first recruiting center

Surely they are all anxious to get over there and help Bush with the war on terra.

[w4rma]

72. Call the police. You'll wish you had when they don't live up to their end

of the bargain. And with only a slap on the wrist, this probably won't be the last time some of them pull stunts like this, again.

[noamnety]

76. one more vote for police involvement

If they broke into your car and stole your radio, you wouldn't think twice about pressing charges, would you? You wouldn't catch a teen in the act of breaking into your car, and decide, well, their teacher will handle it. This is no different, they deliberately committed a theft. It's beyond me why you wouldn't press charges.


On a side note, if free speech makes them angry, why on earth would they join the military to protect it? What exactly do they think they are defending? As a veteran, I'm not seeing anything good that they could contribute to the military with that attitude.

[AgadorSparticus]

82. another vote for police involvement. i don't think these kids are

going to learn otherwise. if they are at the point of stealing, vandalism, etc. and are networking to do so, they need to be monitored.

but i find it odd that high schoolers and college kids are "teaming up". those 2 groups don't run together. it seems to me that they have had some sort of outside help in organizing this project of theirs. :shrug:

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

85. I'm so happy

that they were caught! How immature of those kids. I guess since they don't have a voice in the election they're taking signs. :eyes:

[treading_water]

87. Another vote for involving the police.

At the very least this is clearly theft, and its worse it's an attempt at suppressing free speech and an act of intimidation.

It is clear to me that these young people do not have the faintest idea of what they are going into the military to protect. If they are not held accountable now and made to understand the very serious consequences of their actions, they may grow into adults who won't accept accountability for anything they do. (Much like our pResident.)


(Edited for tense)

[0rganism]

90. These are future gestapo. Stop them now, or face them later.

They are SS officers in training, nothing less. Their respect for the very constitution they plan to swear to uphold is thinner than the paper on which it was written.

The little shits who did this don't belong anywhere near the military. Do everything you can to keep them away from it, especially the officer corps. If that means nailing them on theft or vandalism charges, so be it. Do you think they would hesitate for a second if the roles were reversed?

Press charges. For the love of your country, your family, your very life, press charges. Don't let these fascists rise to power quietly.

And demand that the UPS get rid of that CO. He has utterly failed in his command, and should be replaced immediately. Watch where he ends up, and if it's at another school, damn well warn the people in that town too.

[noamnety]

91. the CO deserves respect

If he handed over the names to you, he's doing his part to hold them accountable - no need to lash out against him. His charges screwed up, but he's done the best he could in an impossible situation. I'd be thanking him.

[Generic Other]

98. I agree the CO was said to be livid

and no doubt very disappointed.

[0rganism]

109. CO utterly failed to instil respect for the principles they'd be defending

How can you trust him to teach future officers at UPS or elsewhere? At the very least, he needs to re-prioritize his training to include a thorough study of civics. Do you think honestly think he's up to the job?

[makhno]

99. Yes, please do involve LE

What is the lesson you want these kids to take away? Piss on the very freedom they're supposed to defend and all you get is a few harsh words from your CO?

Depending on the quantity and value of the signs, it might be a felony and that will be the end of their military careers. Actions have consequences, and it is time the right wing learned a bit about responsibility.

As to the CO, I completely agree with 0rganism. He has failed to instill a sense of respect for the founding principles of this country in his recruits. If our officer corps has no understanding of the civic fundamentals of our society, God help us all.

[RetroLounge]

92. Definitely involve the police in this.

Teach these little fascists a lesson...

RL

[MAlibdem]

93. Not ALL frats (or fratboys) are so stereotypically bad...

Neither are all college students...

[SidDithers]

94. Many good suggestions here...

but whatever you do, please keep us informed :)

Sid

PS - Glad you got your signs back

[lectrobyte]

96. I can understand partying frat boys stealing a sign as a goof, but ROTC?

> ROTC students at the college and the local high schools had teamed up to steal all the Kerry signs in town.

I'm trying to imagine the story on Fox News or some place like that if a group of college students had been busted stealing all the B/C signs in town.

I don't know about calling the police, but I'd sure want the Hitler youth ringleaders promptly removed from any and all military activities, scholariships, etc.

[Generic Other]

97. IT'S MORNING IN AMERICA!

And I have contacted the local paper, local Peace groups, the ACLU, and Senator Patty Murray's office. I will continue to contact others today. Ft. Lewis may hear from me. The County Democrats will hear from me. The schools will hear from me. Have I missed anyone?

[TryingToWarnYou]

100. Yeah, the media (both print and electronic)

Dont lay down for this.

These little monsters in training were caught red handed and its up to you to ensure that they 1, learn their lesson and 2, pay for it in the most painful way possible so that other cretins like them understand that there is a penalty to be paid for suppressing freedom of speech.

Remember that no matter what is done to them, they will NOT change who they are or what they are inside. They will still hate you, hate Kerry, hate Democrats etc. The best you can do is punish them for the acts taken against you. You should press charges and let the law decide their fate. However, prior to that, you can make your case as public as possible.

You may get *more trouble* for your efforts, but then you have to ask yourself if the position you seek is worth the cost to you. If it is, then you should be proud that you stood your ground and defended your position. If you decide that it is not, then they win and you have been beaten.

[noamnety]

101. I believe you missed someone

The police. Call them.

[Freddie Stubbs]

110. The spoiled rich fratboys

to offer an apology?:shrug:

[DemFromMem]

103. Very GWB-like

One constant theme in the Kitty Kelley book is how Bush got into trouble over and over again in his life and never had to suffer the consequences. So it is not surprising that the young people who act in the same way to help their fearless leader get off with a slap on the wrist.

[drdigi420]

104. You should sue them and everyone involved for violating your

civil rights

this is much more than simple theft/vandalism

this is an attack on your civil rights

press charges, then SUE

[Skeet]

106. Now wait a minute.

Don't go blaming the ROTC. The fratboys did it! Fraternities are the bastion of all that is wrong with our country. Every last one of them is rich and spoiled and drunk. Those sons of bitches need to enlist dammit. All they do is live off of daddy's wallet. They provide nothing worthwhile. They should enlist because all fraternity members are going to vote for Bush.

< /sarcasm >

[cally]

107. I would negotiate with the CO

I would not press charges because I don't think the 'justice' system is that effective and I would not want to get these idiots out of military service. The men and women who have integrity are going to Iraq and to enable these idiots a way out is abhorrent. I like some of the ideas about apologizing personally, community service, and making them watch some more reasonable documentaries.