Font Gate--A WHITE HOUSE SET-UP???

[MADem]

http://www.glcq.com/set_up.htm

Money quote:

Newly released documents from George W. Bush’s military personnel files lead new weight to the theory that the White House engineered the recent scandal regarding CBS’s use of the “Killian memos”. Acting under a court order, on Friday, September 24, the Department of Defense released 10 new pages of documents, including an official Texas Air National Guard memo which conclusively refutes the technological questions that were raised about the “Killian memos.”

And it can now be shown that these “new documents” were deliberately withheld by the White House when it released “absolutely everything” on February 13, 2004.


The document in question is a memo written to “First Lieutenant George W. Bush” notifying him of his promotion to First Lieutenant. The memo is dated Febrary 19, 1971, more than a year before the date on the first of the Killian memos. And, like the Killian memos, this document uses a “proportionately spaced font”, and has all the characteristics of a document produced on a modern day computer using “Microsoft Word”.

There is not a goddamn thing these bastards won't do. ANYTHING TO WIN. Please circulate this information to the MAX extent possible.

[Syrinx]

1. I think it was engineered by Rove

And implemented by Roger Stone. But I can't prove it.

[MADem]

5. What is important

Is that the WH WITHHELD THESE DOCUMENTS, because they had PROPORTIONAL FONTS ON THEM, and would ruin their plan to destroy Dan Rather. That asshole BUCKHEAD LIED ABOUT PROPORTIONAL FONTS (I knew that, but there was no way to prove it without finding the damn typewriter I had on my desk eons ago). The documents on Paul's site, cited, are REAL documents from the 70's concerning weewee's promotion, AND THEY ARE PROPORTIONAL.

THIS IS A BIG DEAL.

[Qutzupalotl]

9. Agreed...WH docs are real, Killian's could be too.

But I think Killian's are real only if he typed them, or had someone who wasn't a good typist type them. Simple errors like forgetting to space after a comma....Knox wouldn't have done that, but Killian might have.

Punpirate mentioned this link, and it's a good one. I think it shows clearly that the Killian memos were typed on an old typewriter, not a computer as Buckhead thought.
http://imrl.usu.edu/bush_memo_study/index.htm

There is also the possibility that these were retyped recently using a vintage typewriter. It's hard to go much further without the originals, and apparently they're gone.

I don't know if the WH withheld their documents for the reason you mentioned, but I wouldn't put it past them, either. They did withhold them for some reason, and I think it's hurting their image to handle things this way.

Edit: pronoun.

[deckerd]

21. Pattern of errors strongly indicates a hunt + peck typist

Zero spelling errors plus many punctuation errors is strongly indicative of one of three things:

* Hunt and peck typist (I know, I used to be one and it is much easier
to make punctuation errors than spelling errors in that typing mode)

* Forgery based on a cut and pasted original (tampered original)

* Word Processor Pimped Out with one of the Typewriter-Analogue Fonts which Hailey was able
to purchase on the Internet.

Then imported into Photoshop and the forger would have had to manipulate the individual letters to make them jump up and down; the pattern of spacing around the "th" and the lack of spelling errors are also indicative of a word processor with the macros turned on, I am sorry to say.

Depending on the location of the th and other abberations which (unlike the font) are characteristic of MS Word, it could be true that several of the memos are authentic and ONE is a plant forged on the basis of the others...

a grade-school psy-op known as "seeded disinformation".

In any case, Burkett, an elderly man who needed help with his fax machine at Kinkos, would not have been familiar with the mechanism needed to forge these documents using an archaic, typewriter-only font which had to be purchased and downloaded.

[deckerd]

19. Hailey's expose was a BIG DEAL too..they wanna fire him, does anyone care?

Does anyone on DU care about the Hailey report?

http://imrl.usu.edu/bush_memo_study/index.htm

Anyone intelligent enough to read the whole thing online will
know that it does not claim the docs weren't forged... but if
they were forged, they were done by an expert forger using
the same sort of typewriter or Photoshop... or more likely
they were done by an amateur TAMPERER using the originals.

(Hailey does not make this claim; I do.)

RW Bloggers are trying to DESTROY HAILEYS CAREER by claiming he
falsified his data... to prevent his work from appearing in the
Boston Globe... a claim I can attest is false. See:

http://pavelblov.journalspace.com/?cmd=displaycomments&dcid=39&entryid=39
http://wizbangblog.com/archives/003851.php

(warning, right wing blog sites)

Prof. Hailey's report (hereinafter I will refer to as the USU Study)
proves that the memos use a vintage typewriter font which is similar,
not identical to the one Hailey was able to acquire on the internet and
which uses superscripts (unlike the one Hailey acquired, he noted that numerals and special characters were not a match between the two fonts)

Hailey said all this over a week ago... when I read the report on line.
I should have screencapped it or mirrored it... did anyone here think to do the same?

What the right wing lawyers (calling them pajama-wearing bloggers as they pretend to be underestimates their influence) are trying to do is get Hailey fired (lose his tenure) by claiming that an open-source DRAFT of his report has been continually revised (as of course it would be) and that earlier drafts made false claims that Hailey had matched the docs on an actual Executive. These allegations are untrue because Hailey published an abstract of his findings 2 WEEKS AGO and I read it and commented on it here on DU.

I read the whole report on Hailey's website 2 weeks ago and captured the "American Typewriter (Condensed)" comparison image for fear that something like this would happen... and the claims they say he's making now are the SAME claims he made back then... namely that he was able to duplicate the font, NOT exactly, nor with the typewriter induced irregularities, on Photoshop using a font which would not have been available to Burkett.

And for the record I am NOT one of the people that rules out forgery...
but the docs would have had to been forged using Photoshop, at a level
of skill and sophistication not available to Burkett -- or more likely,
the originals were simply TAMPERED WITH.

There's a danger the Globe may not run with the story on Prof. Hailey's
study for fear of running afoul of the McArthyite brownshit bloggers...

Anyone interested in helping Hailey get published in the Boston Globe?

[deckerd]

20. We as citizens must Challenge these asshats...

They are trying to take down a tenured professor who got too close to the truth.

(see

http://pavelblov.journalspace.com/?cmd=displaycomments&dcid=39&entryid=39
http://wizbangblog.com/archives/003851.php )

Note, the first link, a RW blogger named Pavel initially denounced his compadres for trying to get the guy fired, then was convinced Hailey had "falsified his evidence" on the basis that an open-source DRAFT of his study posted on-line had been continually changed... to reflect what he had said ALL ALONG on his website at:

http://imrl.usu.edu/bush_memo_study/index.htm

-- namely, that he wasn't trying to claim he had duplicated the docs on a typewriter, merely that he had discovered a PHOTOSHOP ANALOG OF A TYPEWRITER-ONLY FONT which was VERY SIMILAR, NOT IDENTICAL to the font used in the memos -- MUCH MORE SIMILAR THAN ANY EXISTING MSWORD FONT. Nor had he claimed at any point to have verified the docs as authentic.

I read the report two weeks ago and wrote about it here (got little or no response) so I KNOW he didn't falsify it in response to these peoples' (baseless) criticisms.

They are trying to keep Prof. Hailey's study OUT of the Boston Globe. Will DU let them?

Do DUers think this is a distraction from the "issues"?

Some people are so damn nervous about standing up to them during and after the sweiftvet assault that I am beginning to wonder if folks know the actual meaning of hardball... this is not hardball this is doing the right thing and clearing peoples' names of charges of wrongdoing leveled by the RW media in an attempt to protect Bush.

Now that Kerry has the Mo is the PERFECT TIME to "distract" people with damaging revelations about the origin of the CBS Memos, in all honesty.

For me, it's about protecting the integrity of academia and the honor of people who served.

[Qutzupalotl]

26. Count me in!

Who should I contact at the Boston Globe?

[punpirate]

2. There is a media professor at...

... Utah State named Hailey who has been under attack from the right for stating that the Killian memos produced by CBS are concurrent with typewriters in use by the military at the time. His seventeen-page document outlining his method for determining such is on his university web site.

Do a search on today's DU for Hailey, and it should pop up. It's worth having to dispute the naysayers' evidence.

Cheers.

[Norquist Nemesis]

3. Hmmm... so either

the CBS docs are real or the WH forged some (or all) of them.

Who'da thunk it?

[Catherine Vincent]

4. I really do believe in the near future, Dan Rather and CBS

will be exonerated.

[MADem]

6. Me, too! n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

7. One more thing about the "CYA"

Bear with me...It always seemed, to me at least, the 'cover your ass' just didn't sit right. It was too easy as a red flag.

Since the military is notorius for acronyms of everything, I started to try and think of other possibilities for 'CYA'. Given that the memo seemed to be a personal note for future reference regarding Bush's annual assessment...it occurred to me that maybe, just maybe, it was a reference not for 'cover your ass' but "Commanders Yearly Assessment".

*sigh* I guess I'm just reaching on this one. The only way to know would be to learn if Killian had other 'CYA' documents that were notes for other assessments he was doing.

[shraby]

8. Has anyone done a FOIA on Killian's papers? n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

11. Don't know. I would have thought it would need to

be specific for an FOIA, as in 'all papers regarding Bush military service between...' or specific document(s) like Form 10Z234. I don't know if an FOIA is possible on Killian's memos and papers in general. Besides, if there are personal files, they may not fall under FOIA rules.

I'm sure someone on DU knows about FOIA...it's not me though.

[Qutzupalotl]

10. Knox said in an interview that Killian had a

"cover your back" file, which is a polite way of putting it. So that part of the story is more widely accepted.

I'm stretching things a little farther to say that Killian may have typed these as a backup, in case the ones Knox typed were lost, which they were. It's also possible that Burkett or someone else retyped them using Knox' memos as a guide, which is what Knox suspected. It's hard to say without the originals.

[deckerd]

23. Retyped them on computer using vintage, downloaded typewriter fonts?

That nobody's been able to find on the Internet?

That Burkett would not know how to install on his Kinko's computer?

According to the RW bloggers, the fact that USU study did not EXACTLY match the Killian memos,
and was not able to produce one SINGULAR matching font that included superscript but instead
imported superscript separately from another font, is somehow proof (to them) that the memos were Times New Roman.

Never mind the Buckhead version (using Times) is FAR LESS OF A MATCH
than the Hailey recreation (which uses a mix of Typewriter family fonts
suggesting a proprietary typeball which is not available in computer
font on the internet, or a combination of two typeballs from related fonts.)

[Qutzupalotl]

25. No, I meant on a typewriter.

Let's assume the remote possibility that Burkett might have bought or kept a typewriter from his guard days, or somehow got a vintage typewriter...he could have typed it on that. It's a remote possibility, but possible nonetheless.

[MADem]

24. I spent 20 years in service

My father did even more time. We both knew what CYA meant. That lame excuse is BULL. CYA predated FUBAR!

[Must_B_Free]

12. They were meant for Michael Moore

to discredit F911

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThoughtCriminal]

14. Yes

If the fonts match -
Either it is evidence the docs are real, or if they are forgeries, the forgery was engineered by the White House.

[deckerd]

17. Yes if they were TAMPERED WITH or DUPLICATED... c'mon everybody

Can't we be like Kerry and entertain multiple probabilities here?
It's the best way of solving this thing and getting to the bottom of it.

"Tampered with the originals" is the OBVIOUS possibility, yet nobody
who spends their time being saturated by cable TV interpretations of
the scandal seems to be capable of wrapping their thoughts around the idea.

[sharman]

15. Dot connecting

This is how I see the dots connecting:

Killian's secretary said that the Rather memos were not genuine, she had not typed them. BUT she said that she had typed for Killian memos that said substantially the same thing as the Rather fakes.

So someone, who knew of the originals, set out to reproduce them in substance, but planted some "clues" as to their phoniness (like using the word "billet"), as well as the font stuff.

They "leaked" the memos to Burkett, a fellow known to speak out with info damaging to Bush, whom the Bushies could point to as the source of the forged memos and disparage as unreliable. Perhaps Burkett knew that Killian had written the real memos, but would not have known that the leaked memos were careful forgeries designed to deceive him.

It's just way suspicious to me that CBS would pull a well-researched piece on the Niger forgeries, with all the work that went into it, to air instead the National Guard piece. That was a very suspicious decision. The fallout of the National Guard piece was, CBS brass had cover (embarassment over Rathergate) to delay the Niger forgery story until after the election.

The Repugs achieve several great goals: discredit "liberal media," distract from bad news in Iraq, appear as victims and, of course, bury the Niger forgery story. (And not a moment too soon--with the NYT piece that just came out, showing how bogus the other "evidence" of Saddam's nuclear program, the aluminum tubes, was.)

[LynnTheDem]

18. Killian's secretary never said they weren't genuine

All she said was that SHE hadn't typed those particular memos herself; but she HAD typed similiar ones.

I still believe the memos are genuine. Otherwise, bushCartel would have loudly denounced them. Which they never did.

[deckerd]

16. kick for all you "CBS memogate is so yesterday" folks!!!

[AnIndependentTexan]

22. We should send the person who wrote this article all of this information

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=897089&mesg_id=897089