Can someone refresh my memory about the 2000 VP debate; who "won"

[wildflower]

according to the media?

Did the media say it was a draw? Did they focus on the appearance and tics of the candidates, or the substance?

All I remember was that it was considered to be very soft-spoken; that Lieberman and Cheney weren't very tough on each other.

-wildflower

[TexasSissy]

1. Cheney. Hands down. n/t

[mitchtv]

2. Cheney lied

He said he wouldn't cum if Joe's mouth.

[DemNoir]

3. Yep

Lieberman made a complete fool of himself. I still think he hurt the ticket more than helped.

[jerryster]

17. In defense of Lieberman

I remember the debate somewhat. What I remember more clearly is post debate. Many people felt that Lieberman and Cheney had both done admirably. A fair number expressed opinions that each would be better at the head of their ticket.

I continue to defend and support the choice of Lieberman. Russert called it "bold and historic". It was. Gore badly needed press. He got it and it was all positive. Lieberman's speech at the convention was also well received.

Finally, there was Florida. (and a reminder to this thread: We won.)
Lieberman's presence on the ticket probably did more than anything else to get out a vote that more than offset the Hispanic (mostly Cuban) vote. Would any other VP candidate have been enough to keep Nader (that asshole) from costing us Florida and the election? I doubt it.

[virgdem]

4. My impression was that Cheney won...

if only because Lieberman just sat there like a bump on a log and offered no rebuttal to some of Cheney's more outrageous bullshit. Lieberman lost more than Cheney won.

[wildflower]

8. Why am I not remembering any media coverage of this? Is it me or did

they just not cover it much?

I am curious about the focus on appearance and gestures--whether that's played up in the VP debate too, or the media talks more about substance.

There definitely seems to be more attention this time around.

-wildflower

[demnan]

5. Lieberman showed

that he'd really rather stay in the Senate.

[vi5]

6. Cheney, I would say...

Both in terms of the media concensus and my own opinion. Back then he seemed a little more grandfatherly and he was soft spoken. On top of that Leiberman was overly deferential after Gore's more "forward" performance in the first debate.

[wildflower]

16. Oh that's right, I remember the "grandfatherly" thing now. Thanks! They

said that about Reagan too, interesting.

So they didn't cover substance much? I don't remember it. I guess that wouldn't be a surprise; but somehow I had this idea that they covered the more superficial aspects of the Pres. debates, but focused more on substance with the VPs.

-wildflower

[Brotherjohn]

7. I remember it being a lot of "I also agree that..." and "I agree with my..

... esteemed colleague". They really soft-balled each other.

That ain't gonna happen this time.

[asthmaticeog]

9. Lieberman was an embarrasment.

Sorry, did I say was? Was, is, always has been and always will be. I'm sure a lot of Nader votes were prompted by the Dems having such an ineffectual DINO doofus on the ticket.

[Moloch]

27. I couldn't agree more

The ONLY reason Joementum was selected as VP was because of his criticism of Clinton. I was so disgusted with Lieberman's MANY assaults on free speech that I voted Nader in 2000.

[Hand]

10. Lieberman took a dive...

I swear that arsehole was Chimpy's spare running mate. Helped Gore about as much as... as... as... :nuke: (suddenly my head explodes)

[JI7]

11. Cheney easily beat Lieberman

[chum]

12. Cheney slaughtered Lieberman

I remember feeling like I was going to vomit. Before the debate Cheney was a demonic figure. But he can appear very likable in a debate. He get out the sheep suit and doesn't come across as Darth Vader.

[trotsky]

13. Worst moment:

Lieberman said something about Cheney being so successful in the private sector since leaving government, and Cheney snapped back that "yeah, and government had nothing to do with it."

KORESH there was an opening the size of a Mack truck for Lieberman to bring up Halliburton and government contracts and ALL that shit, but he just sat there and AGREED with the Evil Dick.

[Doosh]

25. lieberman is a closet neocon

we saw this in the primaries. how do you expect lieberman to beat cheney when in reality he's nothing more than a cheney wannabe.

[beyurslf]

14. Cheney kicked JL's ass last time. Not this time though!

[vet_against_Bush]

15. they sucked each others arses. nt

[dolstein]

18. It was a lovefest and a snoozefest -- nobody won

Overall, it may have been scored a net loss for the Gore campaign, which was still reeling from Gore's disastrous "victory on points" in the first debate. But the debate itself was notable only for not being especially notable.

The people who are saying that Lieberman got crushed are simply venting their irrational hatred towards someone whose religious faith is abhorrent to them. I wonder how many of them actually watched the debate, and how many of them are relying on second hand information picked up from Atheist Monthly. Indeed, the fact that many of these people express profound disappointment over Lieberman's failure to rip Cheney a new a**hole is proof positive that these people weren't actually following the campaign back in 2000 and are merely wallowing in revisionist history. If they had been paying attention back then, they'd know that the Gore's embarrassingly over the top performance effectly ruled out a similarly aggressive approach from Lieberman. Indeed, Lieberban's rather sedate performance was followed up with an equally sedate performance by Gore himself in the second presidential debate.

The fact is that both candidates were low-key and acquitted themselves fairly well. If I recall correctly, post-debate snapshot polls gave the edge the Cheney, but it didn't really change anyone's voting preferences.

In any event, why ask what other people think? The 2000 VP debate is available on the C-Span website. Watch it yourself and form your own opinion.

[Ranec]

22. I think the idea is to prepare ourselves for tonight...

It was terribly important after the last debate to talk about *'s smirks and eye rolls because that is what the SCLM picks up on.

If he just says "It's hard work spreading freedom" 375 times--Who cares? Look at his funny face!

Is it enough if after tonight the consensus is "that was meaningless," or does JE have to come off more "likeable"?

[wildflower]

24. Thanks for the info on the snapshot poll...

I may not have communicated my original question very well.

I was considering post-debate media spin for tonight, and was trying to figure out what the media focuses on in a VP debate (style or substance).

I wondered if the media might focus more on substance in a VP debate, since they tend not to in the Pres. debates. I couldn't remember what the media had said the last time around.

-wildflower

[Moloch]

28. Yep, that's it....

People don't like Lieberman because he is JEWISH. It has nothing to do with his support for the war, his desire to ban speech that he personally considers offensive or the fact that he is a total Bush sycophant. Yep. Must be because he is Jewish.

[genius]

19. Cheney. Lieberman bowed down and kissed his feet.

[WI_DEM]

20. the media and polls indicated no winners/losers

because they were so "gentlemanly" and "civil" which the commentators said made it better than the presidential debates. Tonights debate I think will be starkly different.

[Ranec]

23. Can Cheney fix Bush's mistakes?

I can't imagine Chinny even at his most grandfatherly making things any better for Bush.

His usefulness seems to be in whipping up the faithful. I hope he growls and barks at Edwards!

In the end, Friday is the main event.

[mitchtv]

21. I remember how Bernie Shaw trivialized his stupid error

calling it a boo-boo, when He asked the suprise" gay question to JL when he meant to ask Cheney. Cheney in effect answered "me too" afterwards. Some things stick.

[doni_georgia]

26. Cheney won - All I could think was Lieberman sounded like Garfield the cat

I expect FAR better things this year!