Dean defends anti-Clark fliers.

[DeanIsAPitbull]

"If the fliers said that General Clark was originally for the war and now is against it, that's accurate," Dean said. "If the fliers said that General Clark said it was perfectly fine to let our software jobs to got to India and replace them with other jobs, he did say that. There is a difference in attack ads and just pointing out the facts." ....


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040110/ap_on_el_pr/dean_clark_3


Dean is a true leader. He sands by what he says. He is unafraid to stand up to Clark's lies.

[TLM]

1. Oh no! Not the truth...telling the truth abotu CLark is dirty tricks...

at least according to Clark supporters.

[Skwmom]

29. This is not the truth, it is lies and distortions

and really speaks volumes about Howard Dean.

[xultar]

45. It speaks to pettyness...

Clark emphasizes an optimistic, upbeat message that reserves negative comments for Bush. What's not to like about that?

How?

I learned from a well-placed source, who was with the Clark campaign at these New Hampshire events, that Clark staffers were specifically told not to interfere with Dean's people distributing the attack fliers. Instead, the Clark team had a supporter stand with each Dean person, inviting New Hampshire residents to take Dean's flier while noting that "negative campaigning" is part of the election process and free speech.

And instead of rebutting the substance of Dean's fliers as they're handed out, Clark's supporters encouraged people to ask questions raised by the fliers to Clark directly at the event inside.

That's how

[bitchkitty]

62. Point out the lie -

the truth may hurt, but sweetie, it's still the truth.

[xultar]

41. Clark Focuses Dean's Negative Campaigning Tacticts !!

Very smart. Clark gets people to come in and hear his pitch, while Dean's attacks appear negative and petty. All the while, Clark emphasizes an optimistic, upbeat message that reserves negative comments for Bush. What's not to like about that?

[Closer]

2. ROCK ON!

God I love this man!

[DeanIsAPitbull]

18. Yes!

Your Bradley pic looks funny!!!

[dogman]

26. Isn't he doing his Dean impression?

If only he would point at us now.

[Crunchy Frog]

50. Why Closer,

I never thought I'd see you say that about the General! Welcome to the club!

[Scoopie]

71. God

Most of us don't...

[Padraig18]

3. you might want to reword this

As it is now, it's inflammatory.

[edzontar]

7. I don't see the problem....

In its present form, it is mostly a quote.

[Padraig18]

17. The last sentence.

It's borderline, but I just didn't want it to get locked, that's all. :)

[xultar]

43. Clark Focuses Dean's Negative Campaigning Tacticts !!

And instead of rebutting the substance of Dean's fliers as they're handed out, Clark's supporters encouraged people to ask questions raised by the fliers to Clark directly at the event inside.

Very smart. Clark gets people to come in and hear his pitch, while Dean's attacks appear negative and petty. All the while, Clark emphasizes an optimistic, upbeat message that reserves negative comments for Bush. What's not to like about that?

[MIMStigator]

4. Will he be afraid to stand up to flyers saying he thinks Hamas

might should take over the palestinian leadership even though they're terrorists?

what will he say when he stands up, cause he said that.

Clark will swat Dean like a fly

[Padraig18]

6. how did you like Sen. kerry's remarks about your guy?

You know, the one on Fox tonight, about him not being a democrat until 3 months ago...

[maddezmom]

8. do you have a link with the quote and context? n/t

[Padraig18]

10. Just saw it in another thread.

What need for context could there BE, for that remark? Seems pretty self-explanatory...:eyes:

[maddezmom]

24. if it's on FAUX it must be true

I'd like to see who said it and what the quote is before I pass any judgement.

and for the context, it's my new mantra...for all quotes.

[Padraig18]

31. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

:)

[MIMStigator]

13. here

snip>

Dean's statement came after he was asked in a Canadian television interview to clarify a comment he made in an earlier interview on The Editors, one taped in January 1998, that it could be "good or bad" if Hamas took control of the Palestinian leadership once Yasser Arafat had left the scene.

"The bad, of course, is that Hamas is a terrorist organization. However, if they have to run a quasi-state they may actually have to be more responsible and start negotiations. So who knows what will happen?" he asked.

[Padraig18]

22. Ummm...

I think she was asking ME for the link...

[xultar]

14. When you're the lead dog, their gonna talk about ya!!! n/t

[xultar]

44. Clark Does a BOOYA on Dean's Negative Campaigning Tacticts !!

It would have been pretty easy for Clark to retaliate in kind, going after Dean for going after him. But Clark's campaign did something much better.

I learned from a well-placed source, who was with the Clark campaign at these New Hampshire events, that Clark staffers were specifically told not to interfere with Dean's people distributing the attack fliers. Instead, the Clark team had a supporter stand with each Dean person, inviting New Hampshire residents to take Dean's flier while noting that "negative campaigning" is part of the election process and free speech.

And instead of rebutting the substance of Dean's fliers as they're handed out, Clark's supporters encouraged people to ask questions raised by the fliers to Clark directly at the event inside.

Very smart. Clark gets people to come in and hear his pitch, while Dean's attacks appear negative and petty. All the while, Clark emphasizes an optimistic, upbeat message that reserves negative comments for Bush. What's not to like about that?

Nuthin honey

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/001063.html

[sandnsea]

61. I love that about Clark, I really do

I still want to know what he thought about Reaganomics, etc., and why it took him so long to figure out they were all a bunch of nutballs... but I really like his style.

[mitchum]

48. Actually, it was a Kerry campaign representative...

not Kerry

[MIMStigator]

5. Will he stand up to flyers quoting him saying medicare is the worst ever

program?? how can he, it would be the TRUTH.

[TLM]

11. That's not what he said...

He said it was the worst run program.

[MIMStigator]

15. and he agrees with Newt.

that should go on the flyer

[xultar]

9. See, there ya go. Dean is a stand up kinda guy instead of

putting out positve flyers about himself he has to distort facts about someone else.

What's funny is Clark didn't mention his flipidy flop on the IA primaries, Clark didn't do the flippidy flop on him about his new Taxes, and there's more.

Dean would rather talk about others than himself. To me he's sounding like the people he was complaining to Terry about.

Things that make you go...hummmmmmm

[MIMStigator]

16. TERRY HELP!

eom

[xultar]

23. Terry!!! He's fallen and he can't get up! n/t

[Leilani]

12. And Dean Says:

"We won't always have the strongest military."
(Time April 28, 2003)

And Bush can win the election with this Dean statement.

[MIMStigator]

21. Did Dean say we won't always have the strongest military?

would that be truthful if it was on a flyer?

[Leilani]

37. Yes, he said it.

And it would be truthful on a flyer.

[Skwmom]

34. What about Dean praising Bush for being a straight-talker

He does credit Bush for being "popular because he knows who he is, and he speaks unambiguously about his message." Dean is clearly trying to do the same. "

http://fordean.org/aa/issues/press_view.asp?ID=398

[NewYorkerfromMass]

55. Bush can win on that one statement alone

I have been saying this since April, when he said it.
Leilani, go to the head of the class, and Welcome!

[Leilani]

73. Thank you New yorker from Mass

I'm Hawaiian from New York!!!

[dogman]

19. Another hypocritical Dean statement?

Don't look at what I said two years ago. Don't look at what I said four years ago. That Dean?

[patricia92243]

20. The tone Dean used seems to be back on track. He was too namby-pamby for

awhile. If he feels he needs to CLARIFY something, he needs to do it in a firm tone and not give the PERCEPTION of backing down on what he said.

[MIMStigator]

27. yeah now he's angry again

eom

[xultar]

38. Cuz Clark's the FRONT RUNNER!

[bitchkitty]

65. He is?

In which technicolor dream world?

[Scoopie]

72. In the real world

Where Independents can vote in 29 states and are the majority (as in New Hampshire and all of the South), but aren't polled either at all or in the same percentages as they are representative of their state.
Polls, schmolls: when you're on the ground, you realize that about half these polls are bullshit.

(BTW, Dean's pulling 16 percent in South Carolina, according to the polls. In real life, the South Carolina Democratic Chair expects him to run fourth - real enough for you, yet?)

[deminflorida]

25. Can he stand up to a damn video tape of the actual poisonous

words flowing from his fat-ass mouth that Democrats should not be surprised because he belives that George W. Bush WILL BE ELECTED TO TWO TERMS!

Can he stand up to that in front of common Floridians after we were f&c*ing robbed in 2000!

Maybe he'll be able to do what he's been doing all campaign long and say the only reason he believed that was because Al Gore was too slow on his feet!

[MIMStigator]

Dean said he thinks * will be elected to TWO TERMS?

CRAP!

[deminflorida]

30. YES, go to MSNBC and watch the damn Video!!

absolutely blew me off my feet!

[MIMStigator]

33. THAT'S UNBELIEVABLE

eom

[deminflorida]

40. Here the tapes are still available...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3908334/

[xultar]

32. Please edit your post, don't get angry

the voters think ANGRY is a turnoff

[deminflorida]

35. Why in the world would no one on this board be angry after.....

hearing those words flowing from Dean's own mouth?

Can anyone tell me that?

[xultar]

39. Be angry, don't post angry. Don't play their game! We're the

Front Runner baby!!!
Remember when they were ignoring us! Now they aren't.

That's how you know you're in the front!

[democratreformed]

36. Oh, this one is rich

UGH!

Wes Clark all the way.

[Skwmom]

28. That is not accurate but what about Dean's stance on the war?

"as I've said about eight times today," he says, annoyed -- that Saddam must be disarmed, but with a multilateral force under the auspices of the United Nations. If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice."

http://fordean.org/aa/issues/press_view.asp?ID=398

How does this differ from what Bush did? I can see the ads in the general election now - so Howard Dean was against the war - OH REALLY? Can we say political oppportunistic. To try to distort Clark's opposition to the war, to try to paint himself as some kind of visionary when he was just repeating the concerns that people like Clark were voicing is a joke. He dodges the draft, lies on an Iowa questionaire by inferring his brother is in the military and then uses soldier casualties to hide behind when he is questioned on his own prior statements and records.

[Leilani]

42. Clark Supporters:

Isn't it amazing what Wes could put on anti-Dean flyers, but hasn't?

That's a class act!

[democratreformed]

46. Wes Clark defines class

Thanks, Leilani.

[maddezmom]

47. pure class n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

68. I also noticed

in one of the articles posted above, a veiled hint that Clark may at some point come out with something against Dean. He will if he has to, and it won't be like the sort of clumsy attack that Dean's other rivals have done so ineffectively.

When and if he decides to do it I have no doubt that it will be absolutely devestating to Dean.

[Zero Division]

49. This sucks

I now feel completely and utterly unenthusiastic about voting for Dean. And yet I will if I have to because I care more about stopping Bush and the Right Wing onslaught more than anything else.

I never thought I'd feel the same way about voting for Dean as I do about Lieberman, but this is it.

[xultar]

51. Shhhh don't worry your little head, Wes Will Win n/t

[dogman]

54. Yeah, kind of takes the r out of H. Brush Dean doesn't it?

He probably is exposing himself enough to the public that he will be rejected for the hypocrite he is.

[MIMStigator]

52. Angry Dean KICK

.

[poskonig]

53. The facts hurt, eh?

Surely the mighty Clark campaign is tougher than this.

[deminflorida]

56. Look at the videos at MSNBC and tell me how much it hurts...

n/t

[poskonig]

59. Thanks for the link!

The article is pretty good too!

"Yet he also shows that he’s much more consistent on issues — like affirmative action and trade — than some of his opponents give him credit for. And despite the constant complaints that Dean has no foreign policy experience, he demonstrates a good grasp of international affairs.

According to Ann McFeatters, the Washington bureau chief for both the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Toledo Blade who has also been a regular guest on the show, the Dean you see on “The Editors” is the same Dean you see on the campaign trail. “He is very smart, likes an argument, likes to claw around and through a problem, and does speak his mind,” she said."

[deminflorida]

58. By the way this link will be posted not only here but everywhere

until the Dean get a little civility, or until he loses the election...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3908334/

[Clark4VotingRights]

57. Thank you General Clark for rising above this crap.

For not smearing in return.
And for suggesting to the huge crowds at your events
that they ask him about the crap on the flyers, so he
can respond directly.

I wonder who Dean's gonna fire/scapegoat next for dirty tricks
that he supposedly didn't know about.

[xultar]

60. Clark kick! n/t

[John_H]

63. So it was Dean and not Rove like many Dean supporters suggested.

Time to get the xerox machines up and running NH, SC, AZ, NY, and CA Clark supporters.

I especially like the Bush is a straight talker who will win two terms quote,

Hit him on his centrist/bipartisan record in CA and NY, his weakened military quote and national security inexperince in the south.

May want to think about some Dean/Rove-style push polling in southern states too.

[blm]

64. And if Biden-Lugar was a use of force resolution, then Dean is not antiwar

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/primaries/new_hampshire/articles/2004/01/07/nh_voters_eyeing_two_non_deans/
>>>>>
The only awkward moment for Dean came when Katheleen Belgard, a 17-year-old Concord High School student and Kerry supporter, asked how he could portray himself as so clearly antiwar when he had supported an alternative congressional resolution (known as Biden-Lugar) that would have given the president authority to wage war against Iraq after securing a UN Security Council resolution requiring disarmament or, failing that, upon his declaration that Iraq constituted a grave threat.

Dean replied that he had initially supported Biden-Lugar because "I think the president deserves the presumption of right on his side in foreign policy. I wanted to give this president as much leeway as we could." (Imagine what Dean would say if John Kerry or Dick Gephardt had made that statement.) But Dean also noted that he had made a speech on Sept. 21, 2002, setting out his opposition to the war. However, Dean was still expressing support for Biden-Lugar in early October; at about that time, the authors of the resolution decided not to press forward with it.
>>>>>

[mzmolly]

66. LOL

:)

[poskonig]

67. I supported Biden-Lugar too.

Specifically because it made U.N. approval a necessary condition for an occupation, it was a credible resolution.

Interesting that parts of Kerry's political carcass are still talking about the IWR, as if that embarrassing vote was their central plank.

[blm]

69. Go back and read the two. They are pretty much the same.

Bush WENT to the UN, remember? He got a resolution from them, just as in B-L. Parts of B-L were added to the IWR.

The only added obstacle to war in B-L was that Bush send a letter of his determination for use of force to the Speaker and pres pro tem of the Senate. Big deal.

That doesn't make Dean antiwar and the IWR doesn't make the others prowar.

[Mattforclark]

70. Dean just lost a bunch of respect

in my book.

Yeah, Dean stands by what he says, even when it is BS (and he knows full well that it is BS). I don't call that leadership, I call that dishonesty and sheer stupidity. I don't want a dishonest and stupid leader, which is one of many reasons why I don't want Bush. I'll vote for Dean if he wins the nomination, but I will do so much less enthusiastically than I would have a few days (or a few hours) ago.

[kerryistheanswer]

74. I DON"T BELIEVE Howard Dean

He's a fraud!