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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:10 AM
Original message
VP debate celebration will be short-lived....
Just as few people remembered how Lloyd Bentzen humiliated Dan Quayle in 1988, VP debates are not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. George H.W. Bush won in 1988, even though Dan Quayle had one of the worst debate performances of modern times. Tomorrow people will begin thinking of the main event on Friday, Kerry vs Bush. That is the debate with the big purse.
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splat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. I knew Jack Kennedy and you're no Jack Kennedy
C'mon, Bentsen gave us that memorable line. Everybody remembers that.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Exactly. That is the most quoted line in debate history (nt)
nt
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. 2nd most quoted, actually
Unfortunately, Reagan still owns it with, "There you go again."
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I want Kerry to use that line on Bush....
:) when he starts talking about flip-flopping....."there you go again"...I think it would blow his mind.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. And Kentuk
As I have said in other threads... we both watched it (I did) and
listened to it on the radio

On the radio it was a chenney win... not troucing, just win, and slight at best

On the teevee Edwards came on top. This is more like the Kennedy-Nixon debate of 1960

Now given most folks WATCHED it... that is why the insta polls are giving it to Edwards

Now I am not even going to substance... substance, Edwards won on both sides... if you know what I mean
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I doubt that anyone will look as bad as Bush in that first debate...
:)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Bush on the second debate
:-)
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Oh shit ! I'm getting excited already !
:)
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PermanentRevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. VP debate celebration may be short-lived...
but the Presidential Debate victory celebrations will be epic!

Counting down to Friday.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
5. I think it's more important in this election. More people paying closer
attention, especially since I think a few undecided/weak Bush type voters experienced a little eyebrow lifting upon closer scrutiny of the boy king in debate #1.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. LOL man, we WON this.
Look at the polls. WE didn't do that, believe it or not- we CAN'T do that. The people just don't like Cheney. He didn't do his ticket any favors by acting like an asshole.
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cheshire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. That the polls suprised us is enough said, yes? I am looking for Pubs.
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. I think it helps in a subtle way ...
... even though Cheney lied his ass off tonight, he did project an image of competence (though aversion to eye contact and possibly direct light).

This is a problem for the Chimp because he looked like an ass in the first debate. If Chimpy CONTINUES to look inept and foolish on live national television, Cheny will appear FAR more competent compared to the president. Having the #2 guy outshine the #1 guy is NOT good.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. They needed Cheney to haul George's nuts out of the fire. He failed.
0-2, round three on Friday.
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Bush_Eats_Beef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. Speaking of nuts, here's an excerpt from "Bush On The Couch."
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0060736704.01._PE34_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

I've been thinking "what goes through the mind of a man like George W. Bush, who has been beaten by a man like John Kerry, when the clock is ticking and the time is drawing near for another encounter?"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060736704/qid=1097041513/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_2_1/102-1112796-0692933

"Bush's role as executioner in chief has allowed his sadism to come out in a surfeit of other ways. He was heard making offhand comments or asides about several other victims, reportedly giggling when asked how he could send to death a prisoner whose attorney had slept through his trial. And he bragged about how difficult it was to escape the Texas death chamber, boasting that state law gives death-row inmates "one bite of the apple"—only one chance to make an appeal, even if new evidence turned up after the trial that might change the verdict.
Beyond providing a venue in which Bush could mete out the ultimate punishment, the Texas death chambers functioned as a tool he could exploit to spread fear. The sadist spreads fear for two important reasons: to inflict emotional pain and to assert and retain his power. Bush continues to express his sadism by instilling fear in others (when he isn't busily denying it). Consider the moment in the 2003 State of the Union address when he suddenly leaned over the lectern and almost whispered: "Imagine those nineteen hijackers with other weapons and other plans—this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known. We do everything in our power to make sure that that day never comes." Using the language of the sadistic bully, Bush had cruelly evacuated his own fears into everyone who was watching: that night, the state of the union was terrified.
In the same speech, Bush admitted to the cold-blooded murder of suspected terrorists who had yet even to stand trial. "All told, more than three thousand suspected terrorists have been arrested in many countries," he intoned. "Many others have met a different fate. Let's put it this way—they are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies." Let's put it this way: Behind the forced familiarity of his tough-guy talk was the unmistakable message that Bush feels he can "put it" to anybody, and in any way, he wants. His threat is also an admission of his comfort with living outside the law, with what Princeton philosopher Peter Singer calls "killing people without any judicial process at all." As Singer has remarked, Bush "appeared to be proud of that fact."
What is at work here is a variation on the primitive anxiety-management tool of projection learned in infancy. Bush projects his fear into others so he doesn't have to experience it—bringing him one step closer toward neutralizing his own destructiveness and thus insulating himself from guilt or responsibility. The sadist expresses his sadism for both his pleasure and his protection; by evacuating his sadistic impulses, he can escape the fear that he might turn those impulses against himself with self-destructive results. As with so much of Bush's psychology, the goal is to maintain an inner life free from conflict—in this case, the conflict that can come from having to confront a desire to murder his father (in Freudian terms) or destroy his mother (as Klein would suggest). For Bush, dropping bombs in the name of a "just" war offered a way to dispel tension while affirming the illusion of goodness that is jeopardized by inner conflict. By constructing an enemy, the individual constructs himself as good. By externalizing danger, Bush supports his idealized image of himself as an agent of good, one who speaks to and is aligned with God. If the object of his attacks is a known sadist, all the better: His own sadism may escape detection. But to keep the source of danger outside, the war on terrorism must continue to expand."
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
10. yeah, except people will be talking about the cheney lies all the
way to friday. this is great, the only thing that could have been better then this if cheney was caught with a naked boy.
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CityHall Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
16. Love to see this worked in:
Kerry to Bush: I didn't know Dan Quayle; Dan Quayle wasn't a friend of mine; but you, sir, are Dan Quayle.
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