Blatant Lying

[Doohickie]

Many people are saying Edwards won because of all the blatant lies on the part of Cheney. There were some, but for someone who is neutral or pro-Bush, how obvious were they, and will some people still perceive that even if he lied about details, Cheney was essentially telling the truth?

I mean, here we all pat ourselves on the back and high-five each other on how Edwards kicked Cheney's ass. But when I go to work tomorrow here in Texas, I will be surrounded by right wingers and I somehow think that they will have just a strong a conviction that Edwards was the liar (or was clearly weaker in some other respect).

I think the righties will side with Cheney, and the truly neutral undecideds will see that Edwards scored some points, but so did Cheney and overall there will be some split.

Putting too much stock in Edwards winning the debate will only embarrass us. Edwards did fine, but so did Cheney. Both displayed strong qualities: Edwards was definitely empathetic, and Cheney had his "Father Knows Best" (quote from someone else's post here) face on. They both did their best to defend their views and both tried to expose the soft underbelly of the other ticket.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, let your heart jump for joy, but don't be too smug around the Repubs tomorrow, and remember there are still four more weeks to work-work-work to get K-E elected.

That is all. Good night.

[Erika]

1. Yeah, go to bed.

Cheney was telling the truth? When he said he'd never met Edwards even though they have pics. Stay in bed, and pull up the covers, and shake. You're no asset anyway.

[SKKY]

3. That's just a bit harsh, don't you think Erika?

[Erika]

6. Not At All

Try being a democrat in Idaho.

[Doohickie]

12. Erika,

I'm a Democrat in Texas. I think we both know what I'm talking about here. It seems obvious to you and me that K-E is by far the best ticket, but others don't get it.

[Doohickie]

10. Thanks for the support, Scott, but I expected there would be

a reaction like that.

You know, we get on the freepers for having their fantasies. I just wanted to make sure we don't fall into the same trap and look like a bunch of brainwashed losers to people who aren't as involved in stuff like this. All I'm saying is don't assume the rest of the world saw the debate as a clear win for Edwards.

I was pulling for him, but he made me nervous; hell, he seemed pretty damned nervous himself.

[ClassWarrior]

21. What, can't you take it?

23.

[Scootman78]

27. Yep!

And it also goes against the moderator's wishes in asking us to treat people with respect and not to be rude.

Seems like those with the most posts on DU are the worse at treating people correctly.

When people are mean and hateful in a DU forum, its hard to tell them apart from those that also aren't welcome here - Republicans.

Aren't we supposed to be the nicer party?

Its not setting a good example either when you have 915 posts and you say something like that. Opens the flood gates for more hate.

I'm tired of pointing out these problems, but I just can't help myself from talking about them. I find it hard to tolerate intolerance. I'll get better, I promise.

[Doohickie]

5. No, READ what I said

I'm not saying he told the truth, but just that the lies are not as obviously or perceived in the same negative light that we here on DU would see them.

I confront co-workers all the time with this kind of thing and they simply blow it off. If they don't want to believe it, the simply don't. And for the undecideds, they don't know WHOM to believe.

See my point?

[Erika]

9. Cheney's Lies are Caught In Film

You're going to beg them to believe the pics? OK. Like I said, try being a democrat in Iaho.

[Doohickie]

14. Oh, like the "I've never met you in person" thing?

I bet that was Roved to give us something easy, but harmless, to jump all over in an effort to cover up an later mistakes.

[sandnsea]

28. Well here

Crucify 'em.

Talking Point: If Dick Cheney will lie about something as silly as whether he's met John Edwards, what else will he lie about?

TP: There are 10.3 million voters registered in Iraq.
Problem is, there are only 9.8 million eligible voters in Afghanistan. 40% are women, but they're regularly threatened. The Taliban, who Cheney said had been "taken down", is killing people with voter registration cards. The warlords are threatening people as well, the ones Edwards was supposedly wrong about when he said they were taking over the country.
http://www.tcf.org/afghanistanwatch/main.htm
http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004b.html

TP: The Medicare bill vote he criticized Kerry for voting for, that was the 1997 Balanced Budget Amendment.

TP: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11." In this very debate Cheney said "Saddam had an established relationship with Al Qaida", which does exactly what he says he has not done, suggests a connection between Iraq and 9/11. And it isn't true that there's an established relationship with al qaida either.

TP: Saddam - al Zarqawi link, the CIA released a report saying there was no conclusive evidence that it existed.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N05332378.ht m

[DesEtoiles]

2. this article says it all...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10244-2004Oct5.html

Distribute liberally at your work place. Leave a few copies in the break room, in the bath rooms, in stair wells, in the library...

[Doohickie]

7. But they can blow that off as

lefty liberal media. And they do.

[Erika]

11. Lefty Liberal Media

did not produce the pics of Edwards and Cheney together at a prayer breakfast.

[DesEtoiles]

15. did you read the article? it is devastating to Cheney

[ClassWarrior]

22. Wow, you have all the talking points down, dontcha?

You really understand the competition.

23.

[kokomo]

23. I cannot even convince some Repubs that PNAC is for real!!!

They say the PNAC and its documents are a leftist ruse, especially the call for "another Pearl Harbor"...we made it all up including faking their website, the letter they wrote to Bill Clinton!!!

How do you talk to such folks. Geez, some Freepers are pissed at Edwards for "outing" Mary Cheney, tonight! Talk about some having heads in the sand! It's like talking with folks who just arrived from another planet.:silly:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. The same liberal media that hawked the swift boat liars?

[onebigbadwulf]

4. I wouldnt expect right-wingers to have watched the debates

I would expect them to get Limbaugh's analysis in the morning however.

[Doohickie]

8. Why not?

After the Bush debacle, they probably were hoping that Cheney would produce better results.

[onebigbadwulf]

32. The reason they're right-wingers is because

they're stupid and uninformed.

Part of uninformed means getting news from two sources at most - fox and limbaugh

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

13. I think with the rightwinged people

the thing to do is to show that Cheney lied about meeting Edwards before the debate. If they think he could lie about something so simple and easy like that (and innocent) then why wouldn't he (and Bush and company) lie about other stuff? Then I'd get into a deeper discussion about the other stuff (with valid proof they'd trust) that Bush and company has lied about.

[Doohickie]

16. They'll say

"Oh, he must have forgotten. It's not like it was a big policy matter or anything anyway, so why should I care?"

Then they'll follow that up with,

"If you're obsessing about that, you must really be desperate."

Think about it, especially you who live in red states. Don't you think that's what they'll say?

[Erika]

17. Oh, Go Hide Under the Covers If You can't Be More Innovative!

Try being a democrat in Idaho for God's sake.

[Doohickie]

19. Try being a Democrat in TEXAS, for God's sake!

On edit: I think your idea is grand though, and now I really AM going to bed.

Have a good night, all.... especially you, Erika.

Peace,

Paul H.

[DesEtoiles]

31. I AM in Texas and I would never kiss Repub ass like you do

[Scootman78]

30. Idaho's nothing, try central Florida along the I-4 corridor

I put up with living in one of the most contested areas in America for the ignorant vote.

Based on what you keep saying to people and how you treat them, that means I have two innovations over ya because I'm a nice democrat as well.

I don't know what God's sake is (has he/she actually told us yet?), so I can't really go there.

[NightOwwl]

26. Follow up with the biggie:

"I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11"

Now THAT is a huge policy matter. That is HUGE lie that can easily be backed up by Cheney's own statements.

If they're still into denial, forget it. They aren't worth the stress.

[jobycom]

18. Call Cheney a Damn Liar and don't yield an inch

Bring proof. It's all over the place. Cheney lied about everything from coalition casualties to when he met Edwards, and he got caught by just about every major media network out there.

So tell your fellow Texans (I'm one of them) that Cheney lied, he got caught, and their idiots if they vote for him. Make them retreat from the facts, don't you go retreating from their lies.

[ClassWarrior]

20. EXACTLY!! That's why we need to go here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x979335

...and demand that the press point out and explain EACH AND EVERY LIE.

And I agree with another poster here who suggests we call Cheney* a damn liar to everyone we see and not give up an inch.

23.

[LynnTheDem]

24. We mock rightwingnuts for marching in lockstep...

then jump on every & any progressive who dares say anything out of lockstep.

Maybe we do need a third party; one where everyone truly is allowed their own opinions without getting slammed.

[sandnsea]

29. You thought he lost

That's what you said to me in another thread. Geez, fickle or something? Or just another timid guy seeking a daddy?