Is there anybody here that still thinks Cheney won?

[MikeG]

HUH?

I'm waiting.....

[DarkPhenyx]

1. Never did.

Neither did Edwards though.

[tjdee]

7. What you said.

Word.

[Lefta Dissenter]

2. HA,

I think they all went back home to FR. :hi:

[MercutioATC]

3. My personal opinion is that they both did well and that Cheney

edged Edwards out.

I'm thrilled that the rest of America sees it differently.

[MikeG]

4. Even Tweety changed his mind this morning.

And he's an asshole.

[MercutioATC]

11. Your point?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

5. Don't be surprised if nobody wants to take you to a casino.

[AP]

8. or to an IQ test.

[MercutioATC]

13. Ahhh, AP! Confusing issues again, I see...

Are you actually saying that having an opposing OPINION is a sign of low intelligence?

I'd think not being able to see the difference between what is a fact and what is an opinion would be a better indicator.

[AP]

17. What I'm thinking about are the Qs on the IQ test where they give you

a bunch of pictures and you're supposed to line them up in the correct temporal order.

I'm saying that anyone who looked at those pictures last night and couldn't put the story together isn't the kind of person I'd want to take with me into an IQ test.

You're entitled to your opinion. But so are people who can't put those pictures together in the right order.

Does that confuse you?

[MercutioATC]

20. I didn't say that I agreed with Cheney's representation of the facts.

I said that I felt he came out slightly on top in the debate.

I've also said that I'm thrilled that most of America seems to disagree.

A "debate" (these aren't really debates) is a persuasive argument. Substance aside, how persuasive the debaters are is the measure of who "wins". I disagree with his representation of the facts, but I feel Cheney was more persuasive.

[AP]

25. Bad at sequencing -- putting together big picture. Vocabulary isn't going

to save you.

[MercutioATC]

27. Are you READING what you type before you post?

I posted:

"My personal opinion is that they both did well and that Cheney edged Edwards out.

I'm thrilled that the rest of America sees it differently"

I'm not looking for "vocabulary" to "save me". I'm stating an opinion.

[AP]

33. You defined "debate."

"A "debate" (these aren't really debates) is a persuasive argument."

There's a vocabulary section on the IQ test too. I'm conceding that you might have gotten the question about the definition of "debate" right.

[MercutioATC]

34. Well at least I'll be taken to something....

Not a casino, not an IQ test...possibly a vocabulary quiz?

[MercutioATC]

22. I always break even (or lose a little) anyway...

I've never been somebody to "take along for luck".

;)

[AP]

6. On what points do people think Cheney won? He lied about a bunch of stuff,

he got killed when he tried to bring up 'records', Edwards knocked the 'global test' thing out of the park, Edwards forced Cheney into a range of inappropriate emotions while being totally composed himself, and Edwards was extremely personable and warm while making Cheney seem like the ogre he is.

Not only that, Edwards used his rebuttal time to slowly and concisely summarize the points he already made rather than try to rebut stupid shit Cheney tried to bring up which I thought was incredibly effective: repetion for emphasis.

And Edwards pointed out that Cheney didn't answer the questions about Israel and jobs.

What in the world does anyone think Cheney achieved in that debate?

[GRLMGC]

16. A total ogre

I loved when Edwards started listing Cheney's record of horrible things in the House like voting against funding for Meals on Wheels for the elderly. I think Edwards made Cheney look bad. However, I can't say that Cheney came off like a total idiot like Bush did. He just came out looking like an evil asshole and I think that appeals to some people.

[AP]

18. I'm not sure Edwards's job was to make Cheney look like an idiot.

Edwards's job was to tell the truth about Cheney and Bush and about Kerry and himself and to give people a clear choice.

He did that.

[michigandem2]

9. it was hard for me last night...

I am SO partisan..to try to look at this objectively was hard but I felt good about Edwards...Cheney didn't hurt him..he looked so like a grump...

I never felt Cheney won...I thought Cheney just threw lies out...it was amazing...he thinks if he says it its true...there were a couple of big lies...so what does that make the "undecideds" think about the credibility of what else he had to say???

Edwards won! I think as far as DU is concerned...I kinda felt the pressure was on edwards..because the media will want a back and forth debate race...and since Kerry won by a huge margin...then the likelyhood would be that Cheney if he held up well and didn't stutter and utter "hard work" 18 times then he would be declared the victor...that didn't happen though...we did really well last night..

[madmom]

10. taking into account both..

debates is proof positive that cheney is the real president.That Edwards, a one term senator, bested him imo proved Edwards won hands down.Btw,to find out who was most truthful go to www.factcheck.org

[A-Schwarzenegger]

12. He make me feel safe

and happy.

EDIT: And free and democracy.

[billybob537]

14. If you deduct points for lies Cheney scored a negative 8.

Edwards exposed Cheney as a serial liar. Cheney's best move sending his KOOL-AID drinkers to FACTCHECK.COM Ha ha shithead you just shot yourself in the foot.

[Texas_Dem]

15. Cheney wins the Best Liar of the Night Award

Previous winners have been Ken Lay and Richard Nixon to mention a couple.

[Dr.Phool]

19. Last night

I thought Edwards won, hands down, but he missed a lot of opportunities. But, I'm politically active, and keep up with the issues. If I were the average uninformed voter, I'd call it a draw.

But, it looks like the media is starting to call Cheney on some of his lies, and it's starting to look like an overall Edwards victory.

[nickinSTL]

21. For me, Edwards won...

But, I can imagine that some people wouldn't see it that way.

My fiancee doesn't want to let me watch debates anymore, because I yell at the TV every time Cheney (or Bush) tells an obvious lie.

Needless to say, I did a lot of yelling last night.

The problem is, I get the impression that a lot of people aren't as well informed as I am, so they might actually buy into some of the lies.

[aden_nak]

23. In factual terms, Edwards won. In debating terms, it was close.

You know, unlike the unmitigated slaughter that Kerry performed on Bush in their first debate. ;)

But really, we all knew Cheney was infinitely tougher to debate against than Bush would be, and I am satisfied with the outcome. There were a few things Edwards did NOT do that I really think he should have.

1) When asked about his limited 6 years of experience, he did NOT point out that Bush had only served one 6 year term before taking office as President. Was Bush unqualified to lead the nation then?

2) Time be damned, he needed to backhand Cheney with that business about demeaning the sacrifice of the Iraqi people. That was the worst moment of the debate for him, and I understand why he wanted to let it go, but he needed to get back on that horse. Cheney was mixing terms and numbers there, and he should have been called to task on it.

3) He wasn't tough enough on his stance on Iraq now as compared to before we invaded. He allowed Cheney to shift the guilt equally to Kerry and Edwards. A simple, "Well, I guess John Kerry and I made a mistake in trusting the President with the safety of this country. It won't happen again," would have done wonders.

Other than that, I'd say that Edwards came out on top on the other issues. I think after the brutal beating Bush took last week, neither candidate is going to really appear to have "lost" this debate by comparison. Cheney's showing was naturally strong (and naturally a huge steaming pile, but I'm talking appearance here, not content). But for someone who touts his vast experience compared to Edwards, one would expect him to have wiped the floor with the Democratic challenger, and that was clearly not the case.

[JETS]

24. Piss-Eyed Joe Scarborough thought Cheney won

but then again Joe needs to open his eyes literally and figuratively!

[sidwill]

26. I initially did.

I have to admit, my initial gut take on the debate was a Cheney win.

But it has become readily apparent that the combination of Cheney clearly getting caught with his pants on fire plus the polling results, plus Edward's likeability factor has resulted in what appears to be a win for the good guys.

That said, I think Kerry can now put the chimperor away with a strong performace Friday night.

I expect that he will.

[Jon8503]

28. As soon as the debate was over I was clear on the fact that

Edwards basically kicked ass.

[Phillycat]

29. If you didn't know he was lying about almost everything...

I think you could make a case that he "won". And most Americans won't know that he lied about nearly everything. He is a very good liar and people are ill-informed in this country.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

30. Yet... they don't care!

Cheney was the one mumbling a bunch of stuff that's over the heads of regular people. Edwards was speaking as if to a jury. In Cheney they saw someone inaccessible and a little bit scary; Edwards was positive, upbeat, and natural, and he spoke in simple sound bites for the most part. In short, Edwards has outbushed Bush. Us political junkies find it hard to fathom, but the way Edwards "lost" the debate was a win on Main St.

If every lie Cheney told had been true, he would have "won" by our lights. But he was lying. Which makes him just a weird, wonky, mean, grumbling sourpuss in the eyes of the nation, and a loser by any standard.

[Phillycat]

31. I actually think it's the opposite.

I think because we know the facts, we think Edwards won, but I think to Mr and Mrs Joe Average in this country, Cheney came off plainspoken and real, while Edwards sounded like a politician. Edwards didn't sound as convincing TELLING THE TRUTH as Cheney sounded lying. I am just trying to be honest, I know this opinion will be upopular.

[wardunn28]

32. never thought so

thought edwards destroyed him.....

[PATRICK]

35. Cheney's successful rope a dope

lost the actual debate and made Bush, whom he barely mentioned, the real loser. Not losing seemed to be one of his two goals. The other was to repeat the memes so entirely blown by W. Edwards led, taking ripostes well. The defense half of the debate was terrible for Cheney. By the time he warmed up in the more disastrous home front section it was too late.

And I'm sorry, whoever takes Cheney's distortions seriously and gives him points does not count in the debate on serious national issues that demand hard fact checking. If he bolstered people on sophistry alone that is at best a superficial win with diehard supporters, but truth is truth and Edwards wins decisively on that ceded ground.

If we are talking only about campaign effect you might have some ongoing controversy until it works itself out, but I am personally confident this is also a big big win. I mean, to win just how badly did we hope Cheney would have sucked? He sucked sufficiently, even surprisingly. Quite boring actually, but that is rope a dope, when the heartless fake will never come off the ropes because he has nothing left.