Just got in a big fight with my repug sister and brother in law

[Ksec]

AAAAAAGGGHHHH!!!

Im steamin' I thought my sister had some brains but she was mouthing every talking point the repugs have put out. I told her she was just repeating lies and distortions and she should know better. My bro in law is a Sheriff and a registered Dem. He wasnt as strong a supporter , but he was voting for Boosh too.

I was so pissed I wanted to bang both their heads together.

WTF is wrong with people? Even my own family has been conned by these evil bastards !!!

[judge_smales]

1. But, but, but,

he's a uniter, not a divider!! :rolleyes:

[EnfantTerrible]

2. As the big dawg said

"I feel your pain."

I also struggle with a rethuglican family... two sisters and both parents. I can sypathize with the frustration you experience and am at present trying to cope. I have instituted a gag rule on all political discussion and (as I live many hundreds of miles away from them all) limited my contact with them to brief, cursory phone conversations while I ponder how I am related to these people.

If it's any consolation: you are not alone.

Keep posting... it's the only thing that gets me through.

Good Luck

[Ksec]

4. Thanks.

Im so upset Im actually shaking.

And Im not a drama king by any stretch

I argued with them for twenty minutes and it actually got to a screaming match. Instead of just walking out I continued .

And to think she and I were close/

[EnfantTerrible]

10. I was shaking a few weeks ago

from the same type of confrontaion. What I came away with was that, in the case of my family, there is no point trying to reason with them. They are as self-deluded as I am now, thanks to them and the Rethugs in office, self-medicated.

:smoke:

[LittleClarkie]

29. It's the people in the pubs who get me

I'm losing effectiveness lately. I can't help but get hostile.

I went to see Upriver last Sunday. When I got to the pub afterwards, one of my repub friends asked what movie I'd seen and I told him. He announced to the bar that I was "a liberal" like they couldn't be trusted to decided for themselves what I am.

Then someone else (drunk) asked what the movie was about. I started to tell her but she interrupted with "what does you button say." It says "Kerry/Edwards."

She asked if I was voting for him (duh) and then started to say something about flip/flops, moving her hand back and forth in a flip flop motion.

I asked if she really wanted to know what the movie was about, or just to make fun. I asked why, if she didn't like Bush (she said she didn't) that she would take his word on what Kerry was like.

"It's like going to the Chicago Bears to ask what the Packers are like," I said. That didn't go over as their was a Bears fan sitting there. The Bevis and Butthead crowd thought that they were seeing a "cat fight."

I give up. These people are too uninformed to talk to, esp. when their drunk.

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

8. Same here

and my Dad is for Bush but my mom, brother and I are for Kerry. Of course now with the debate's I'm not sure if my Dad is still for Bush. :shrug: But other family members are republican and I'm the only democrat I know of. Heh. I'm holdin the balance though. :D

[hadrons]

3. they can't admit they were duped

[mistertrickster]

5. I don't think most Bush supporters are stupid--they have a need for

answers and authority, and Bush gives it to them.

Try talking to them separately and just ask them if they feel the country is better off today then we were four years ago.

The goal is to communicate with Bush backers at the level of what is important to them. Overwhelming people with evidence and proof of Bush lies just makes them work harder to defend him.

If you frame a discussion with your political opponents as a "debate," you've already lost because they won't admit defeat even when you defeat them.

I've found the best approach is to emphasize that we all want the best thing for our country--how do we do that?

On edit--I'm an instructor in college, and one of my students asked me in my office why I didn't like Bush.

Fighting the urge to say, "because he's the worst unelected liar whoever usurped the office of the presidency," I said "because he believes gov't is the problem and not the solution but I believe that gov't really can help solve a lot of problems for America and help people make better lives."

She seemed to understand that, and I like to think that it got her thinking in a new direction about "conservative" and "liberal."

[maxsolomon]

7. point of order

his spnners give them bush's easy answers & suthority.

bush is incapable of persuading or convincing anyone

[Ksec]

11. Yep. As in: He voted for it too...

or are you sympathising with the Taliban... argh... After that talking point I lost my temper and went off about that remark.

[ieoeja]

23. Does WHO support the Taliban?

I hope you pointed out that liberal groups had been pressuring the government to take action against the Taliban for YEARS before 9-11.

I hope you pointed out that Clinton cut off all foreign aid to Afghanistan following the Taliban's rise as well as freezing all of their bank accounts.

I hope you pointed out that Dumbya initiated foreign aid to the Taliban after taking office and before 9-11 despite the fact they were openly shielding Osama bin Laden who had ALREADY been credited as being behind attacks on the United States.

[mistertrickster]

12. True--I agree . . .

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

9. I agree and

also show them that Cheney lied last night about meeting Edwards before. Point out if he can lie about something as innocent and silly as that, would he be lying about other things? Hmm.... Make them question the authority they're under.

[Ksec]

14. good ideas all

I normally speak level headed and try to reason but I lost it today.

Dumb but it kinda felt good to release the demons.

[mvd]

6. Sorry to hear about that

My own story is better: 3 Repuke aunts don't like Bush; at least two of them are not voting for him. One of them is voting Kerry for sure. One aunt, who's older, doesn't like the religious aspect of things getting into politics. I hope she can be persuaded to vote Kerry because of that.

Don't give up trying to convince your relatives. Tell them about every Cheney debate lie.

[MADem]

13. And if that doesn't work

Get them drunk on election day or let the air out of their tires so they can't drive to the polls!

No flames, please, I was making a weecowboy joke!

[Ksec]

16. hehe that is a good idea..:)

[bloom]

15. a lot of people trust their TV's

there is not enough truth getting out in an easily digestible format.

[Vincardog]

17. TV used to have the fairness Doctrine so people believe it they don't know

it is propaganda. They are brain washed and refuse to see it. You only have to watch FOX news for one station break to see the repetitive indoctrination at work.

[ieoeja]

27. It can also depend on where they live.

When I visited relatives living in southern Indiana during the 2000 presidential election, I was amazed at how Republican everyone was (we all grew up Democrats). But during my visits I read the local newspapers and watched the local television and listened to the local radio. I read/saw/heard the same pro-Bush/anti-Gore news as I did in Chicago. But none/nada/zero of the pro-Gore/anti-Bush news I heard in Chicago was being printed/broadcast down home.

If all the news you read/see/hear says "Republicans are great humanitarians while Democrats want to kill and eat your children" then you're probably going to become a Republican.

Everyone here seems perfectly aware of the national rightwing media: FOX, obviously; CNN openly asking Republican politicians for tips on how to make their news more palatable to conservatives, etc. But what is far more frightening to me is the complete takeover of the media in remote areas. Where I grew up, for instance, they no longer have a single CBS affiliate while they have two FOX affiliates. One of the FOX stations is new. The other used to be CBS, but was purchased and converted to FOX.

[bloom]

31. that's true

the Indianapolis Star has a big reach in this state. Very Republican.

[zinsky]

18. Don't Lower Yourself to Their Level!

I know all too well how political discourse these days can quickly turn into a food fight. Rise above it.

Stay calm. Take deep breaths. Challenge every assertion they make - politely. For example, if they say, "Kerry will make this country less safe", respond with "How do you know that?" or "Based on what information?". If they say, "Kerry will bankrupt this country", reply "How do you know?" or "Show me the analysis".

Conservatives hate to be challenged on facts - mainly because their beliefs have no basis in fact. Pick apart every statement and they will soon leave politics alone. Trust me.

[Booster]

19. I had dinner with 3 young people (in their 20's) last night

and I had on a Kerry t-shirt. They said they were for Bush and I said increduously "Why?" Not one of them could give me an answer and the young man, who is a policeman, said if he were drafted he would go and fight. I asked him why he would want to go to a foreign country and kill people who have done absolutely nothing to us. He just got this blank look on his face and didn't answer. I told all of them that they had better start learning about issues now and at least understand what the Hell is going on. It was very frustrating because I really thought all 3 of these young people were bright; guess not.

[sandnsea]

20. Hey, mine too

I had masterfully avoided all controversy during my daughter's wedding. But she went home and just HAD to send me a rosy war report. AAAAGGH!!! I asked her not to send this crap to me, then she just HAD to call me close-minded. I blasted her and I just don't care if they never speak to me again. I can't abide this willful ignorance a second longer. It sure isn't any fun though, I agree with you.

[Ksec]

21. I dont understand how such intelligent people can be so easily conned

Like my sister. Shes no Einstein but shes reasonably intelligent. She used to be a strong Dem but me thinks my brother in law got to her. He was standing there and filling in the lulls when I cornered her about something. The really bad thing was that this all happened at my 80 yr old Mothers house and she was kinda dumbfounded that it had turned into this because we never argue, but we sure did today.

Mom is neutral , my late Father was a Rethug, my three brothers are rethug,now I found out my own sister is a repub, and Im the only one left with any common sense.

Its kinda disheartening in so important an election.

[ieoeja]

28. See Post #27

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x987752#988663

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. Hi KSEC *HUGS*

I am sorry your family has been neo-conned. Buy them a copy of F-9/11 and some microwave popcorn.

[npincus]

24. check their closets for big pods

[kerry-is-my-prez]

25. Join the club. All my family & extended family except a few are for Chimpy

My neighbor who used to be a good friend is barely speaking to me. She's tired of my "digs" about Bush. I can't help ranting about BushCo because I'm obsessed....

[formernaderite]

26. Didn't anyone ever tell you while you were growing up.....

...it's rude to discuss politics or religion? Okay, so that rule applies to company.....but I find that it applies equally to family. Don't get so emotional, it's really not worth it. Do you think your favorite politicians in DC care as much as you do?

They don't...it's a job. They go out to dinner after bitching on the floor of the Senate.

[w4rma]

30. Well, folks are dying, losing their homes and livelyhoods. Lives are being

changed and for the worse. The ultra-wealthy are gaining more and more power over the rest of us and they'd rather we not speak about politics, also.

I'm sick of folks who try to tell others that or nation's politics just isn't important enough to talk about at gatherings: Move along, nothing to see here. Ignore the rising prices/taxes and lowering wages/salaries. Don't speak of the dead men and women in Iraq, it's impolite.

[formernaderite]

36. I just don't think it's worth losing family over...just my personal

priority.....and as I stated, the politicians in Washington only pretend to care. So you and I may have an actual stake in this...the politicos in DC are already all rich. So they can afford to stay warm and fuzzy with each other....whatever the issue may be. I think it's important to remember that the politicos really don't care much beyond retaining power. To retain that power they simply appeal to different groups for votes. Cynical, but true.

[Rambis]

32. FYI dont piss them off the assault weapons ban expired

those teflon bulletts are available too. The crazy thing about all that is... If the government wants you, their gonna get you. An AK don't do squat against a tank ladies and gentlemen.

[gauguin57]

33. Let me give you some advice...

... Strangers, you can try to win over. But for some people, once they're gone, they're gone. You have to ask yourself whether it's worth ruining such a primal relationship -- the family bond, the bond between siblings -- over George W. Bush.

I share your frustration ... I love my brother-in-law, but OH MY GOD ... for an intelligent guy, he really has chugged the Kool-Aid since 2000. But when we start talking politics, it always turns ugly. And I know I will not change his mind. So we talk about other things, and our visits stay pleasant (and it keeps my Democrat sister from having to run interference -- this election has been hard enough on her "mixed marriage.")

You will probably not change their minds in the next month. So talk about other things, and stay tight with your family. Don't let that bastard George W. Bush f*** up one more thing -- your family relationship.

Must my $.02.

[CitySky]

34. don't kick yourself too hard

Most of us "lose it" every now and then, behave like less than our ideal selves. You're still among friends here. :grouphug:

It sounds like you'll want to apologize to mom for getting involved in a scene at her house, and tell her that you love her. And move on. We live, we learn.

[blm]

35. THE CURE: Print out this article and have them read it.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.sirota.html


Follow the Money
How John Kerry busted the terrorists' favorite bank.

By David Sirota and Jonathan Baskin
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two decades ago, the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) was a highly respected financial titan. In 1987, when its subsidiary helped finance a deal involving Texas oilman George W. Bush, the bank appeared to be a reputable institution, with attractive branch offices, a traveler's check business, and a solid reputation for financing international trade. It had high-powered allies in Washington and boasted relationships with respected figures around the world.

All that changed in early 1988, when John Kerry, then a young senator from Massachusetts, decided to probe the finances of Latin American drug cartels. Over the next three years, Kerry fought against intense opposition from vested interests at home and abroad, from senior members of his own party; and from the Reagan and Bush administrations, none of whom were eager to see him succeed.

By the end, Kerry had helped dismantle a massive criminal enterprise and exposed the infrastructure of BCCI and its affiliated institutions, a web that law enforcement officials today acknowledge would become a model for international terrorist financing. As Kerry's investigation revealed in the late 1980s and early 1990s, BCCI was interested in more than just enriching its clients--it had a fundamentally anti-Western mission. Among the stated goals of its Pakistani founder were to "fight the evil influence of the West," and finance Muslim terrorist organizations. In retrospect, Kerry's investigation had uncovered an institution at the fulcrum of America's first great post-Cold War security challenge.


More than a decade later, Kerry is his party's nominee for president, and terrorist financing is anything but a back-burner issue. The Bush campaign has settled on a new strategy for attacking Kerry: Portray him as a do-nothing senator who's weak on fighting terrorism. "After 19 years in the Senate, he's had thousands of votes, but few signature achievements," President Bush charged recently at a campaign rally in Pittsburgh; spin that's been echoed by Bush's surrogates, conservative pundits, and mainstream reporters alike, and by a steady barrage of campaign ads suggesting that the one thing Kerry did do in Congress was prove he knew nothing about terrorism. Ridiculing the senator for not mentioning al Qaeda in his 1997 book on terrorism, one ad asks: "How can John Kerry win a war if he doesn't know the enemy?"
>>>>>>
But legislation is only one facet of a senator's record. As the BCCI investigation shows, Kerry developed a very different record of accomplishment--one often as vital, if not more so, than passage of bills. Kerry's probe didn't create any popular new governmental programs, reform the tax code, or eliminate bureaucratic waste and fraud. Instead, he shrewdly used the Senate's oversight powers to address the threat of terrorism well before it was in vogue, and dismantled a key terrorist weapon. In the process, observers saw a senator with tremendous fortitude, and a willingness to put the public good ahead of his own career. Those qualities might be hard to communicate to voters via one-line sound bites, but they would surely aid Kerry as president in his attempts to battle the threat of terrorism.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

MUCH MORE at link