OK -- I'm starting to get nervous now

[CatWoman]

why would Cheney go on live national TV and tell all those blatant lies????

Could it be that the election has already been stolen, and they are just going thru the motions?

[michigandem2]

1. no I think its like OJ-itis

you say it loud enough and so much you actually believe yourself...it doesn't matter...

[Texas_Dem]

12. I like that. Bush follows the OJ Doctrine

[CatWoman]

29. er,

I really wish you wouldn't do that -- the O.J. thing, I mean.

You see, there's quite a few people who don't agree with your analysis.

[Goldmund]

2. But what else can he do?

"Yes, Gwen. We followed the PNAC plan. It had nothing to do with supposed WMDs. And Gwen, let me add that we knew about Sept. 11th beforehand and did nothing to stop it."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Extreme arrogance.

If you lie often enough and nobody calls you on it, pretty soon you start believing your own bullshit.

[Bleacher Creature]

Stop overthinking it.

I was doing the same thing, but eventually came to one conclusion.

He's an arrogant jerk who has been led by the media to believe that he can say anything he wants and won't be called on it.

I realize that he's intelligent, calculating, and all that, but there's no scenario in which blatantly lying (and getting caught) helps him.

[apnu]

18. Exactly! The reason he's so snarky is

that he (and the rest of the neocons) believe they are doing the right thing. They believe the facts (and the American people) are on their side.

[1gobluedem]

4. No

Cheney and Bush still firmly believe that the American public is stupid enough to believe anything they say. They are WRONG.

[LisaLynne]

5. He's just towing the company line.

He thinks the American people are so ignorant they won't even know he lied and a good portion of them don't. I just hope enough know the truth for it not to matter.

[Phillycat]

6. Yup.

It'll work something like this:

http://wearabledissent.com/101/floridavote.html

[democratreformed]

7. They are not counting on an informed electorate. The internet is

changing things. I feel it - don't you?

[SammyWinstonJack]

14. Thank you President Gore

:evilgrin: "The Internet is changing things."

[annabanana]

31. the "Communication Revolution" is in it's infancy.............

We were still adjusting to the Industrial Revolution when I was growing up in the 50's.

I gots the feelin we ain't seen NOTHIN' yet!

[charlyvi]

8. He was shoring up the base...

They believe anything coming out of his mouth. BC gave up trying to woo anyone else long ago--Rove figures if enough of the base votes this time, they've won. Go figure.

[elperromagico]

9. Can't tell the truth now - that would make him a FLIP-FLOPPER.

And that would be just plain awful. :eyes:

[Dr Fate]

10. Perhaps Cheney is not a "sharp" as they say he is.

If he did not forget, then why did he say this- perhaps he thought no one in the media would verify it?

It is weird. Did he honestly "forget" meeting Edwards?

Why didnt he go to "factcheck.com" to verify it? :)

Perhaps Cheney is not a "sharp" as they say he is.

[RandomKoolzip]

11. Did you read Josh Marshall's opinion of the debate?

He said that it seemed that Cheney just doesn't have the fight in him anymore. Of course, this theory that the Bush team "doesn't want to win" and is pursuing every oppurtunity to piss off every possible group in the world for whatever reason as they go down drowning has been floating around DU for a long time; I remember posting about this last fall.

I think they're going to bow out in november and let Kerry TRY to clean up the mess they made while the repub senate, Judiciary, and media barks down his snorkel. This will make Kerry look like an ineffectual wimp and impede his chances in 2008 while presenting the illusion that democracy still exists in America. Again, just theories. Who knows?

[Booster]

33. I agree with you, but I would also add that they want to

run Jeb and 4 more years of George would end any hope for Jeb. Remember, Jeb is the smart one and that would further the PNAC even faster since George has screwed up so much. I think they're trying to lose and the next debate should show this even more - if Bush really blows it, we'll know.

[KansDem]

38. I may be foolish, but I don't think a "Bush" will ever run again...

1980--Reagan/Bush
1984--Reagan/Bush
1988--Bush/Quayle
1992--Bush/Quayle
2000--Bush/Cheney
2004--Bush/Cheney

I really think Americans are getting tired of the Bush Family controlling the White House. And I would think that Republicans, especially moderate Republicans, have had it with running a "Bush" on its national ticket in 6 of the last 7 elections.

Is the GOP really that bereft of ideas that it has to rely on one family for its candidates?

Of course, I could be wrong...

[PermanentRevolution]

34. That may just be a theory...

but it's a plausible one. That's exactly what the GOP did to Carter. They let him win in '76 to be the scapegoat for the Nixon/Ford backlash they knew was coming. They threw the election, knowing they could keep Carter in check and make a strong run again in '80, once memories faded a little. And it worked for them.

We just have to make sure it doesn't work this time. Taking the Senate is absolutely crucial. Then we can use the Senate to pressure the House. Kerry can call in all the favors he's bound to have stored up after 20 years, and with a Dem majority of the Senate and a Dem president, we can accuse House GOP of stalling and playing politics with America's future. Hopefully, we can stack the Supreme Court with a liberal majority and get some seious judiciating going.

If Kerry's agenda is stalled by the GOP, they could mount a strong '08 campaign, but if we can get the Senate, we can keep it moving. And if we can break up the media conglomerates and restore the Fairness Doctrine, it'll make campaigning a whole lot easier next time.

[bloom]

13. they've been getting away with it so far

I imagine they are thinking just 4 more weeks....

[Generator]

15. No no no

They are just so used to getting away with everything-hell they got away with a war without a cause for God's sake- that they are going to keep on with it.

There is also a point where the propagandist forgets it's propaganda because he believes so strongly. Cheney probably believes the shit that comes out of his mouth just like one of the Nazi elite of the past. I mean, they really believe they are on the side of righteousness while becoming the evil they claim to despise. It's fascinating, really.

But, I still don't think they are as evil as they wanna be. They aren't going to out right steal the election. But the evil minions of the future are surely taking notes, because stealing democracy is so easy-just watch CNN!

[Terran]

16. Don't be.

Sweetie, he lied like that because he knows he can largely get away with it; he knows the media mostly won't call him on it, and that *some* debate viewers will come away from the debate taking what he says on faith.

It doesn't mean the fix is in. No way.

[AmerDem]

17. my take is this

They couldn't fight back with truth so they clung to the same lies they have been spilling up until now. They then hoped most of his lies would be glossed over the corporate media whores (which is exactly what happened) and they still come away with what they started with...a confused electorate.

[Mountainman]

19. If Bush would say this,

Yes the war is going badly right now. We didn't anticipate the might of the insurgency. But we must prevail because there are now more terrorists in Iraq then when the war started. It is in America's best interest to win this war and win it with the help of the UN and the rest of our allies around the world. We will speed up the training of the Iraqi security forces and work toward the day when the whole country can have peaceful elections. We will begin to admit our errors and use diplomacy when it can prevent more killing.

Bush would win in a landslide.

BUT NO! He is helping our cause by saying everything is just peachy!

[Technowitch]

20. A variant on the Goebbels "big lie" theory

It's become a common aphorism, a statement from Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi propaganda minister, that "a lie repeated often enough, becomes the truth." He also espoused the notion that the bigger the lie, the greater the necessity to keep repeating it--even in the face of contradictory facts and reality.

The Bushies have taken this a step further, into what I'd like to call the "Avalanche of Lies."

The basic premise is this: A single stone or snowflake is easy to bat aside and causes no impact. Get hit by several, and you can remain standing. But if enough comes at you all at once, you simply cannot withstand the onslaught.

To bring this into context, if Cheney had just said a couple of demonstrable falsehoods during the Vice Presidential debate last night, the Media would be all over it (despite being lapdogs to the conservatives and Repugs). Just as they were all over Gore for his one or two misstatements.

Instead, Cheney spouted one lie after another. He lied about his own prior statements. Lied about never having met Edwards. Lied about Halliburton's sweetheart deals in Iraq. Lied about the ShrubCo's job creation record. Lied about Edwards' attendance record in the Senate. Lied about WMDs and ties to Al Qaeda in Iraq. Lied about the effects of the Bush Administration's tax giveaway to the wealthy.

The list goes on and on and on.

We watchful patriots out here disprove a few of the lies easily--but they're the small ones, and we end up ignoring the bigger, more nuanced falsehoods.

Thus we--and the American voters--end up being snowed under yet again.

Frankly, I think it's time Kerry and Edwards start using the "L" word. Call them liars. Don't say they 'mislead'. They are lying, pure and simple, and people won't be put off by the word if it happens to be the truth.

[John_H]

21. LOL!

[doni_georgia]

22. Nah - he's always lied like that from day one

I don't think he nor his puppet know HOW to tell the truth.

[sandnsea]

23. They think they can get away with it

They've been getting away with it for 4 years. Look at the Swift Boat liars. Why would Cheney think the media would suddenly call them on a lie? And Cheney's ego is bigger than Bush's, he certainly never expected them to call HIM on a lie. Not to mention, he really doesn't give a shit. It's all a big game to them anyway. It's like story time, tell the story their voters will buy, tell it real good, and you get to rule the world. He isn't giving these lies 2 seconds worth of thought today, believe me. He'll just make up new lies to cover up the old lies. Come on, CatWoman, that's their MO, you know that. Nothing mysterious about it at all.

[GreenArrow]

24. they wish to lose

Skull and bones. Good cop bad cop and all that. They've played their part, and now it's time to let the next team take over and let the pot simmer on low for a while.

Boiled frog, anyone?

:tinfoilhat:

[sangh0]

25. He had no choice but to lie

You didn't think he was going to admit that Iraq was going badly, did you?

All they can do is appeal to their base, and hope they show up at the polls while the police keep them pesky black folks away from the polls.

[TexasSissy]

26. Counting on American public not following the news after the debate.

Cheney knows that his hard core base will vote for him, no matter what. The others - they're either stupid or unknowledgeable or don't follow current events. That's what he's counting on, I think. Sad to say that so far, he's right.

I hope there are enough of us paying attention.

[incapsulated]

27. He's a compulsive liar

Plus he knows the media will give him a pass on most of it, so why not? Don't worry about it.

[stevedeshazer]

28. Incompetence

They really are that dumb. They've been propped up by the mainstream press and they think they can get away with it.

I truly think it is that simple!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

30. Nah

he actually believes that shit. That's what I realized last night. He actually believes it. Either that or they are so far into the bullshit, he HAS to keep spouting it.

[Deja Q]

32. Thanks to (at least) NBC news slamming LieCo*, I'm worried too

October Surprise is going to surprise us all, I think...

Bin Laden will likely have something to do with it, one way or the other.

[MoonRiver]

35. He's an arrogant POS who thinks God has given him a mandate?

:shrug:

[catbert836]

36. No.

He's just hoping people will believe him w/out checking the facts. In the words of Goebbels, the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it.

[Pepperbelly]

37. This is one of the most important things to know about this.

The reason they lie, the reason they pluck silly phrases out of context and spin castles in the air with them is very simple. They do it because the truth simply will not do.

They absolutely cannot be reelected if the truth gets out.