LATimes Asks: "IS HE A DOPE?"

[A-Schwarzenegger]

Duh.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-brains7oct07,1,810690.story

Although neither group likes to say so, some Americans who support President Bush and many who don't support him have concluded over four years that he may not be very bright. This suspicion was not allayed by Bush's answers in the first presidential debate a week ago.

Even Bush's most engaged critics shy away from publicly challenging his intelligence for many reasons, most of them good. To raise the issue seems snooty and elitist. This is an image no American wants because seeming snooty is even worse than seeming stupid. Just ask Bush's opponent, Sen. John Kerry. Furthermore, the concept of brainpower or IQ as a single, measurable trait is generally, though not universally, rejected by scientists. And the obsession with IQ has been responsible for all sorts of political mischief.

...

The issue might better be described as one of mental laziness.
Does this man think through his beliefs before they harden into unwavering principles? Is he open to countervailing evidence? Does he test his beliefs against new evidence and outside argument? Does his understanding of a subject go any deeper than the minimum amount needed for public display? Is he intellectually curious? Does he try to reconcile his beliefs on one subject with his beliefs on another?

It's bad if a president is incapable of the abstract thought necessary for these mental exercises. If he is capable and isn't even trying, that's worse. It becomes a question of character. When a president sends thousands of young Americans to kill and die halfway around the world, thinking about it as hard and as honestly as possible is the least he can do.

more, duh...

[Guaranteed]

1. Does he give a shit about his country enough to do any of those

things?

[Ganja Ninja]

Does he recognize a hopeless cause and ...

is he capable of admitting he's wrong? Will he spare others the violence and pain of his misjudgment and change course?

Don't hold your breath.

[Carla in Ca]

45. No, but Hoffmania already has the merchandise for it!

[TaleWgnDg]

2. I have an issue that's simmering about this . . .

Why? Why has the "news media" begun NOW to question this? Wha?

George Walker Bush's lack of intelligence, his lack of curious intellect, and his insistence on being insulated is legion! After all, GWBush has been in politics for how long? He's been exposed for all to see for how many years? It IS news-worthy. Of course, it's news-worthy which is the measure utilized to report news.

WHY HASN'T THE NEWS MEDIA BEEN REPORTING THIS? Why?

This cannot be, and should not be, another "emperor wearing no clothes" scenario. But why is it treated as such?


. . . . . . . . .

[A-Schwarzenegger]

3. Better late than never, Dog.

Damn, the LATimes done gone waaaay out on a limb for ya:

"We state boldly that thinking hard is a good thing, not a bad thing, even in a president."

[TaleWgnDg]

4. true; however ONE editorial does not address the issue . . .

and, yes, I do agree that the LA Times has been added to GWBush and Dickie's list of "hey, see that a**hole over there? that's Adam Clymer of the NYTimes!" to which Dickie-boy added "oh, yeah, big time!" (paraphrased quotes)

[A-Schwarzenegger]

5. Yeah, may it be the first of many...

if Friday goes like it should....
In the meantime, ya gotta love the subtlety of the title of the editorial:

"IS HE A DOPE?"

[TaleWgnDg]

8. yup . . . gotta love that title to the article . . .

I emailed it around . . . wanted to share the *warmth,* heh.

[Mr E McSquare]

12. Thinking hard......

is hard work. Its hard. we're working hard here.
HA,HA,HA!

[DeepModem Mom]

7. The elephant in the room since 2000! A shocking media failure...

of the people -- IMO the story of any Bush unscripted appearance during his entire tenure, such as his appearances with foreign leaders (and even before, in the 2000 campaign) should have been Bush's inadequacy: his lack of knowledge, his inability to communicate, the obvious conclusion to anyone watching that something is badly wrong when a person such as this is residing in our White House, leading the most powerful nation on earth. That millions of viewers of the first debate had, as Paul Krugman wrote, "scales falling off their eyes," is the fault of our media's failure. Citizens of the rest of the world know the real Bush because it is not hidden from them by a compliant and complicit press.

I hope enough American eyes are opened, soon enough, to save our country from four more years of danger and disaster from the Bush cabal.

ON EDIT: An illustrative anecdote -- I was told of an encounter between an elderly workplace security guard and an employee with a Kerry bumpersticker. Gesturing toward the sticker, the guard said, "You votin' for Kerry?" Expecting the worst, she said, "Yeah, I'm votin' for Kerry." A rueful look came on his face, and immediately she knew that the look indicated he had voted for Bush in 2000. Shaking his head, he said, "I am, too. I watched that debate, and Bush just didn't seem to know what he was talking about."

[TwentyFive]

21. You are so correct....the press covers up for Bush

I enjoyed reading your analogy about the security guard. I can certainly relate to those bumper sticker moments.

I must say that I knew Bush was inarticulate and pretty stupid - and even I was shocked at just how clueless Bush really is. It's obvious he's the perfect patsy for Haliburton & others - bold, egotistical, stupid and well connected.

[andyhappy]

26. cuz the media sux

dig it!

http://www.townandplanet.com

[CityHall]

6. I think the way to spin this is

I think the way to spin this is to emphasize "laziness" instead of stupidity, and to point out that he's not nearly as smart as his advisors. The President has to bring something to the table personally. Otherwise, how is he going to be able to sit face to face with foreign leaders when he can't bring Dick Cheney along?

He actualy scored over 1200 on the SAT, significantly above average, but not good enough to get into Yale without help, and well below the norm for cabinet positions. If people don't see him as terribly dumb, it's partly because he's probably smarter than 3/4 of the population.

[kokomo]

22. 1200 is NOT significantly above average, but average from a good H.S.

I scored 1320 on my SAT (one and only attempt) and my HS counselor told me to not even think about an Ivy League school as my score was too low to be admitted. Except for those in affirmative action, like George W. Bush, a score between 1400 to 1600 would be needed. Little Wabash College here in Indiana did take me and that school consistently ranks right up there with the Ivy League, anyway. Plus Wabash awarded me a "full ride" academic and needs financial package.

Back in the day when I took my SAT, there were NO books available on the market on "How to Take the SAT", no Kaplan tutoring, and of course there was no tutorial computer software. I didn't even know what the SAT looked like until I opened my booklet that morning. I didn't know it would be full of analogies. But then I went to a small poor rural high school where no second year of sciences or calculus was even available. Our counselor was mostly a full-time teacher with limited "counseling" hours.

Bush went to one of the most expensive prep boarding schools in the USA. Tuition for this 2004-2005 academic year at Phillips Academy -- Andover, Massachusetts is $31,160 for a HIGH SCHOOL! Andover spends much time prepping their students for the SAT and on studying techniques in order to get into and survive in the Ivy League.

[Tims]

34. Scores have inflated since the 1960's

1200 was still very high then and definitely placed you in the top quarter. The 1400 and 1600 required scores were implemented much later as a means to limit applicants even further. In the 60's only 10% or so of High School graduates even applied for college so taking only the top quarter would have still meant a very limited number of applicants. Since then the total numbers of college bound students has grown exponentially. Also because there are now sophisticated SAT study and preparation programs, the mean scores have gone up considerably.

I too came from a rural school. Completed all the math they had to offer my Junior year and had no idea what to expect when I walked in to take the test (As a matter of fact I was the only one from my graduating class taking the test. The few other students from my school going to college were going to schools that did not require the SAT. If they took a test at all, it was the ACT).

[Tims]

32. I've always doubted his SAT score

I'm only slightly younger than Bush and when I took my SAT in 1969, anyone could have gone in and identified themselves as me and taken my test. As a Junior in High School, I had no photo ID (most driver's license at that time did not) and no Social Security Number.

I also remember that an SAT of 1200 was the minimum score needed to get into any of the ivy league schools, so the fact that Dubya scored just above that has always been suspicious to me. My SATs where also just above 1200 and I would hate to think that he and I are at the same intellect level. Going to a prep school like Andover, I'm sure there were many bright kids around willing to make a few extra bucks taking SATs for the rich and stupid.

Also, since a minimum SAT score of 1200 would likely have been a written policy at a school such as Yale, it would be necessary that a score of that or higher appear on his official transcript. This would have caused problems with more than just Bush in Yale's legacy admissions, since I'm sure Bush wasn't the first dumb son of a rich alumni let into Yale. The question I would ask would be is the only record of his SAT from his Yale transcript or has he produced the actual score card issued by the testing institute?

[gordianot]

9. Where he lives.

He has never had to make abstractions, commitments, struggle, or worry (for too long). In spite of any failings they have been covered up and he has been empowered.

What really pissed him off was a blast from the past. A certain upperclassman put him in his place making him feel as if it were the 1960's a time he would rather forget. Narcissistic personalities do not like to be challenged especially one who has been so protected.

I can't wait for the next debate to see how he handles it. He is in a mode of seething rage and anger. Kerry would not have to do much to push him over the cliff.

[Ironpost]

28. I'll say he will be heavily DOPED

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

10. A good commercial

Somebody posted this yesterday and I'm still laughing

http://www.n3t.net/humor/Seriously.mpg

[JohnyCanuck]

11. Is the Pope Catholic? n/t

[jwirr]

13. Many have asked

"why now" but that is clear. If the media had brought this to our attention earlier - say 6 months ago. We may have forced bushie to step down and then what? We would have been stuck with Cheney. I think that would have been even worse. When faced with a bad situation that cannot be changed for the better one must take what they have and make the best of it until the time is ripe for change.

[obiwan]

14. So today, Shrub is on the campaign trail...

... while Senator Kerry takes two days to prep for the debate.

Let me draw a parallel...

A few years ago, I went back to college and got a couple of degrees at the ripe old age of 48.

I busted my butt all semester, every semester, and inevitably some kid would come up to me the week before the semester ended,trying to buy assignments because he hadn't done them.

Well, I don't work that way, and I doubt Kerry does either.

I told the kids to do their OWN damn work.

I graduated with a 4.0 average, and I've seen a couple of those kids working at Staple's and Home Depot.

This debate should be more fun than the first one. After this ass kicking, W will have to unbutton his shirt collar to take a shit.

[kokomo]

27. Wonder if Bush ever wrote a term paper???

When I was in college, there were research paper services where you could get a paper on about any topic by mail (now they are provided via the Internet). One took a chance that an alert prof wouldn't recognize such or had already had the same turned in before. Frat houses also had test and term paper files accumulated from students over the years. A ten year old "A" paper with a different prof only had to be retyped with a new name. Also, in the large universities with sometimes several hundred in one class, one could hire somebody to sit in and take a test for you if you were a wealthy student. That was before all of the security, bar-codes, etc. that would prevent such fraud in the present day. The only reason I bring up such conjecture is that Bush claims to have gone all the way through Yale and only read ONE book (was it about a pet goat? :silly:). But then Classics Comics and Cliff Notes were available in the '60's.

Wonder if Yale uses Bush in their marketing???

[fiorello]

15. It's not the dumb Bush brain, it's the bad Bush values

The LA Times went on to say that the smartest president isn't always the best; that many people care more about a president's "character" and "values".

I agree! Bush-Cheney values are EVIL. They lie. They side with the big companies against the American people (Edwards said that.) They are arrogant and scornful towards the rest of the world. They promote hatred. Etc.

Bush-Cheney do all these things because they reflect bad character and bad values.

[TwentyFive]

20. Considering the Bush values....it's actually GOOD that he is dumb.

[LuminousX]

16. I am reminded of a quote from Dune

Wars are won through intelligence and intelligence.

We know Bush lacks one and has tainted the other.

[BurtWorm]

17. Amazingly, Repubs praised Cheney for his "substance," "intellect"

and mastery of details, claiming it showed how prepared he was (as opposed to Edwards?!) to assume office should something happen to the idiot in there now. Yet it's virtually impossible to make a Republican see the irony of their praising Cheney for qualities they insist Bush doesn't need. And that is infuriating! :argh:

[Dark Jedi]

43. Huh? Whoa? WTF?

"Intellect"? Come on! All Cheney did was recite statistics (some of which might not even be truthful). That has nothing to do with intellect. Once again, this is just the rightwing cheerleading machine churning. :puke:

[TwentyFive]

18. Reagan was Evil/smart. Bush is Evil/stupid. Which is worse?

I'll take an Evil/stupid opponent anytime.

Reagan was Evil/smart because he was so successful at getting people to buy into his "greed is good - ME first" philosophy. The Reagan legacy lives on....people are now greedier and more self centered than ever.


Bush is Evil/stupid but was able to hide behind Evil/genius advisors like Rove and Cheney. But, these debates reveal his stupid nature, and so people are losing confidence in his decisions.

[exJW]

19. Yes

[AntiFascist]

23. Bush is incredibly narrow-minded and insulated....

and he appeals to the lowest common denominator of his base. His religious base represent the most biggoted and intolerant fundamentalists and Catholics who are eager to crusade and "Americanize" the rest of the world, although their particular view of America is not one that the rest of the world will tolerate. His business base represents the wealthiest of the wealthy who benefit the most from tax cuts for the rich, and who are the most resistant to change when it comes to American dependence on oil. His military "base" represent the most aggressive hawkish individuals who would like nothing more than to wage world war after world war in an ongoing, disruptive and destructive War on Terror. All of these qualities add up to an "ugly America" and if we want to continue presenting ourselves as ugly Americans to the rest of the world, then we should reelect the president.

[Dark Jedi]

42. You've Said it All

I was going to do a missive (not to be confused with "mexed missages". Got that, Bushites? :) ) about WHY I have left the other side, but you just saved me some time. :headbang: Nice tagline, btw.

[AntiFascist]

44. Thanks Dark!

and a big welcome to DU. :hi: I'm all for 2 or even 3 party democracy and there are times when the other parties may have the upper hand, but this campaign is too important and I'm fighting the current administration on every point I can think of. I'm glad you've switched over to our side, bring your friends!

[hippiechick]

24. Is he A Dope, or Is he ON Dope ???

:shrug:

:hippie:

[Dark Jedi]

40. Can Be Both

How about a dope who's on dope? LOL

[hippiechick]

47. Hi Jedi

Welcome to DU !!! :hi:


:hippie:

[spanone]

25. Fucking A

[Emillereid]

29. I don't want a surgeon who was a C student and I certainly don't want

the person occupying the most powerful position in the world to be a C student either. If that's snooty, then so be it. There should be minimum standards. I don't know what Bush's abstract intelligence is as measured by IQ tests but his college grades and his performance on the TANG standardized tests suggests he's on the low side of average. His lack of intellectual curiosity and mental laziness is probably connected to his general lack of ability. Now can a person of lower intelligence as measured by IQ tests be smart and work hard and have good sense -- you betcha. But that's not Georgie boy -- he's not very intelligent and he's never worked to overcome his native deficiencies. He's not only intellectually lazy, he's also morally lazy and insulated from the real world. He doesn't have to work hard or think hard or do anything of any consequence -- others have always been around to take care of him and save him from any self-reflection and anxiety. What Georgie is good at and what he still does well is -- CHEERLEADING! as long as someone gives him the Cheers (script).

I met and talked a while with Dr. Justin Frank (Bush on the Couch) last weekend and he paints a portrait of Bush that is scary indeed. We talked about the real probabilty that Georgie is suffering from delayed damage due to his use of alcohol and cocaine -- the two work synergistically to cause more brain damage than either alone. His aphasia and anomia haven't always been evident in his speech -- but it seems more and more obvious when he attempts to talk without either rehearsal or a script.

[FizzFuzz]

38. Oh I read Dr Frank's book--loved it

wanted to jump out a window, but I loved it, as a lay person, "armchair psychologist."

I'm curious about something though; I wondered why Dr Frank didn't mention Narcissistic Personality Disorder in the book? From my informal reading, NPD seemed to describe his personality perfectly (and co-morbidity-drug/alchohol dependence fits the picture too.)
Is megalomania synonomous? Is it a term more common to Freudian analysts?

[Emillereid]

48. Don't know why -- I think it fits him to a T too.

It might be that he didn't have enough specific 'data' to from a distance to make that diagnosis; megalomania is contained with NPD. -- Dr. Frank had to go with what he could 'see' of Bush in the public arena.

For those of you who don't know NPD here is a good description:
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
American Description

http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html

Diagnostic Criteria


A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:


has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

requires excessive admiration

has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes



Internet Mental Health (www.mentalhealth.com) copyright © 1995-2003 by Phillip W. Long, M.D.

[FizzFuzz]

49. ah I see, thanks. I didn't know

megalomania was contained within NPD..thought it was some kind of separate disorder, or a term favored by a certain branch of psychology (Dr Frank seemed to go with Freudian thought alot so I thought maybe it was specific to Freudian analysis, or something....)

Anyway, yes, Smirky fits every feature, to my mind.

One time this subject came up here and someone who must be a professional in the field suggested some other additions to the diagnosis. Wish I could remember.

[Dark Jedi]

41. "It Don't Matter to Base"

Hey, to hear Bushie's defenders say it, it is exactly this arrogant disregard for higher things that makes him very appealabable (yes, I am making up words like him! LOL) to his "base".

[sisenor]

30. CHECK THIS LINK OUT

If you haven't already.

http://isbushwired.com/2004/10/voice-in-bushs-ear.html

[obiwan]

36. There is a device called a "frequency scanner"...

... that will detect signal transmissions within a specified frequency range. Someone needs to sneak one of these in to one of the debates in order to determined whether or not W is "wired."

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

31. Tucker Carlson on Bill Maher

paraphrased

"Listening to Bush speak is like watching a drunk old man walk across an icy street!"

I know...can't stand Tucker but it was funny.

[LittleClarkie]

33. Local Conservative pundit

called the LA Times "The Kerry Times" aka "The Saddam Times."

Reminded me of "Ossama... Saddam... Clelland" tactic.

[tomfodw]

35. It's kind of sad, in a way

He appears to be stupider now than he was 10 years ago, according to James Wolcott.

To quote Cabaret, "Well, that's what comes from too much pills and liquor."

He's clearly not stupid, but utterly lacking in any kind of serious intellectual capacity or aptitude.

Sad for him, much sadder for everyone else.



- "I'm George W. Bush, and I don't understand this message."

[RobinA]

37. He's a Dope

I honestly think that the press hasn't reported his obvious stupidity because they don't believe it. I have discussed this with so many people, not all Bush supporters. People make every excuse in the book for why he seems dumb but really isn't. No one wants to admit (to themselves, first of all) the the President of the United States is this stupid. It's a scarey thought if it's just coming to you. We all have had four years to adjust.

I read this whole article in the Washington Post the other day about how, even though everybody knows Bush is very religious, no one really knows what his actual beliefs are. Most of the article seemed to imply that his beliefs were so complex, they couldn't be stated or comprehended by mere mortals. Not once did the article ever even suggest the alternative - that he doesn't have any religious beliefs beyond broad platitudes he heard somewhere. It's the same thing as the intelligence nonreporting, and partially related. What if the religious thing is a big fat put-on? Wouldn't that be a pretty reasonable explanation for why no one knows what he believes? No one dares ask the obvious.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

39. ???

"No one wants to admit (to themselves, first of all) the the President of the United States is this stupid."

I have no problem whatsoever admitting it to myself or anybody else.

[Julian English]

46. Screwing up this much is hard work-up