George Bush Will Not Beat Kerry In Tomorrow's Debate...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I see the resident Cassandras are out again in full force...


Let me repeat the Idiot in Chief will get his ass handed to him tomorrow night...Will a new George Bush show up? George Bush lost the debate by being himself; a hopeless cipher who offers anecdotes, bromides, homilies, and platitudes but nothing of substance....


If Bush was acting like someone else in the first debate I would say he had a chance but he was defeated soundly by being his clueless self...Bush thinks on his feet as well a fish rides a bicycle...

George Bush is the Montreal Expos of debate...

Think about it...

[shoelace414]

1. YOU FORGOT POLAND

[trotsky]

14. LMAO

That has cracked me up every single time... * could not have given us a better catch phrase. :7

[MallRat]

21. Yes, he did!

Sig-o-licious.

-MR

[Cha]

2. And how will he do a Mulligan on a

bi-partisan town meeting?

[NewJeffCT]

3. The problem is...

If George Bush shows any improvement over his disaster of a first debate, the media will orgasm in ecstacy.

[michigandem2]

12. but the people won't...and just like last time

tweety will say "we don't want to say who won..we will let everyone make their own minds up"

HOWEVER...if Bush won soundly (unlikely) they will just start jumping up and down saying he just killed Kerry...sick but true

[skypilot]

4. Someone posted something after the first debate...

...that I think is very true. They said that Bush's handlers will try to give him all kinds of pointera to improve his performance in the second debate and that he will basically self-destruct trying to follow them all. The poster said that his brain will "subdivide" and he doesn't have much brains to start with.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Subdivide..

Not likely....

[andyhappy]

7. new format

AAAAAND this debate is a new format with new topics so he can't really learn from his mistakes at the last debate.

Remember, Iraq and national security is his strong point but this debate is about domestic issues which is the achilles heel of the repugs!

I hope that Kerry can pull off the 'Oprah' style debate!

[The Icon Painter]

18. Learned

When has the Pinhead ever learned from - or even admitted - his mistakes?

[andyhappy]

19. touche!

he can't learn from his mistake because he hasn't made any! ;)

[nostamj]

20. town hall is NOT limited to 'domestic issues'

that's the final debate in AZ, moderated by Schieffer... anything goes as far as topics tomorrow!

[andyhappy]

22. whoops

news to me!

Go Kerry Go!

[edbermac]

6. If Kerry has any bombs to drop, he'd better do it in the first 5 minutes

and just watch Georgie unravel in front of all those nice folks...

[caledesi]

17. Just mention "Poppy" - that ought to do it! nt

[SpiralHawk]

26. Pop-peeeeee

There, I did it.

"I'm the master of low expectations."
- George W. Bush, Aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003

[Connie_Corleone]

8. All Kerry has to do is mention Chimp's daddy.

Bush won't be able to take it, just like last week. He'll have a nervouse breakdown if Kerry mentions Chimp's daddy did a better job with Hussein.

[michigandem2]

15. right..that is where it got good..once Kerry mentioned 41...

chimp went limp....he couldn't stand it...he was PISSED..I think that is when he started talking to kerry for a second when they weren't supposed to talk to each other...made Kerry laugh..LOL did anyone else catch that?

[Cronus Protagonist]

34. "I know George Herbert Walker Bush and you'll never fill his shoes"

*heh*


http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[olddem43]

9. It's hard work!

[AngryLizard]

16. He's going to have to speak off the cuff

To real live actual people in the audience. With Kerry standing right next to him.

There's no way he's going to win this. He'd have to turn into an entirely different person. He'd have to turn into John Edwards, or something.

But I do agree that if he does even marginally better than he did last week, the press will lick him up one side and down the other. But they won't give him the win.

Also, Bush is going to have to be careful about what he says in front of Kerry - I think the VP debate just gave Kerry permission to out and out call Bush a liar. Bush will, shall we say, not respond well to that.

[gbwarming]

10. Is it true that each candidate is can have up to 5 questioners arrested?

Cause if that not true Shrub's going to have a tough night. :evilgrin:

[bigtree]

11. Tis true

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Why Are People Scared?

If it was a question of style I'd be concerned...


But is Bush going to get smart over night?

[Phx_Dem]

24. Bush won't win tomorrow

He may be able to "hold his own" when he's on his own and can say whatever lie creeps into his empty head, but things will be different with Kerry there to slap him down and call him on his lies. Bush is not quick on his feet and he can't respond effectively off the cuff.

Let's face it Al Gore, won the 2000 debates on substance. If he hadn't sighed, he would have won. I watched the 2000 debate between Gore and Bush the other night on C-SPAN and Bush babbled like the total loser that we all know he is. It was embarrassing.

He definitely won't win, but I'm afraid the media will call it for him just beause he didn't leave a turd on the stage. Let's face it, he can't do much worse than last week so whatever he does will be considered a victory by the braindead media.

[deckerd]

23. You guys are predictably falling down again... this is precisely why

* will be declared the winner, because you guys thought the expectations game only applied to the first debate.

It's sad. You're only helping * with this sort of attitude... doing nothing for Kerry.

You cannot count on a repeat performance from *.

If he WERE to make a repeat performance, the election would be over, and YOU woulsn't have to do anything, just sit back and yammer about how you didn't even need to lift a finger because everyone around you already knew what a horrible guy * is.

Rove knows this which is why there will be no repeat performance.
If there were, it would be a moot point and we would not need to discuss it. Rove wants you to concentrate on the path that seems easiest and least stressful, namely, sit back and assume * will make the same mistake next time.

You guys truly do not know how to manage the expectations game.

David Brooks DOES which is why he is crowing about how "if Bush does as badly" this, and "if Bush does as badly" that.

He knows the Repubs can't afford to think about that, so they don't intend for it to happen -- if it does happen it would not be worth discussing because it would change the dynamic of the election -- and he can safely lead Dems to speculate and pontificate and generally lay flat on their ass rather than helping their candidate, by being on the offensive and ready for any change in tack on *'s part.

> I see the resident Cassandras are out again in full force...

If you think it is "Cassandra-ish" to point out that * could easily do better than he did last Thursday, then you have already lost the expectations game SO BADLY that its hard to believe any Dem could get in office with the sort of help they get from strategists on DU.

> Let me repeat the Idiot in Chief will get his ass handed to him tomorrow night...

The job of a strategist is to think CONTINGINCIES. What is your contingency if Bush does better -- much better in the minds of moderately conservative people than he did on Thursday night? You don't have one. That means you are setting your candidate up for failure if Bush registers any improvement at all which will be amplified in the media. Thanks a whole lot.

> Will a new George Bush show up?

This is a rhetorical question because you have no game plan if he does, no new talking points, just anger and frustration like Shrub showed on Thursday when a "new" Kerry showed up. Try this:

Why is Bush sending such Mixed Messages to the electorate? That was not the Bush America knows and loves. That Bush always said he would talk straight with the American people, no matter what. Last night he was stiff, robotic, almost... Gore-like. Does he take average Americans for granted? Has he been insulated in a coccoon of hubris? Is he resting on his laurels?

You try it. Think like an average, uninformed citizen for a change. Think story arc.

> George Bush lost the debate by being himself; a hopeless cipher who
> offers anecdotes, bromides, homilies, and platitudes but nothing of
> substance....

If this is your attitude then Bush may win by a landslide with this attitude because that is EXACTLY what they said about Ronald Reagan
in the 1984 debates.

Start running as if you're behind, sports teams with this sort of cocky attitude invariably choke.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. Hmmmm

Here's a sports analogy....


Muhammad Ali lost his first fight to Joe Frazier because he fought on Joe Frazier's terms and didn't take him seriously enough.... He came back to win the next two fights by making the necessary adjustments and fighting on his own terms...

Sugar Ray Leonard lost his first fight with Roberto Duran because he fought on Duran's term although he almost beat the thug at his own game.... He made the necessary adjustments and kicked Duran's ass the next two times they fought...

My point... Ali and Leonard lost those fights because they were trying to be somebody else... Bush lost because he was being himself...

He's not going to turn into an intelligent, informed person in one week...

As far as comparing Chimpy with Reagan I'll defer to Ron Reagan Jr. "my father craps bigger ones than him."

As an aside if I was Democratic spinner on tv I'd say Bush will destroy Kerry in the upcoming debate but in the comfortable confines of DU I would say my 86 year old mom could destroy the Idiot In Chief...

[deckerd]

29. Also, don't forget the Montreal Expos nearly went all the way in 94

If it weren't for those "players union thugs" and the baseball strike,
they'd have gotten away with it, too! :p

You are probably right that there's insufficient time to echo-chamber
the "Bush is unflappable in a public setting" meme around DU. But it's
still worth a shot. At thir point we have to have faith that some
media insiders are playing the expectations game against * because
rank-and-file journalists (up to and including such paragons of the
center-right as O'Rielly, Carlson and Will) may be turning against him.

Certainly, if O'Reilly and Brooks are trying to play a double game by
going on about the consequences of another * flop, it is very risky
because it could easily happen.

However, the reality is (I hate to say it) but, once you control for
anti-war protestors, Bush probably WILL BE FAR more comfortable in a
town hall setting.

Whether that translates into a charismatic Bush performance remains to be seen.... but he's done it before.

Me thinks his handlers doth protest too much about how Kerry insisted on the town-hall.

Obviously, the expectations game will play out under the radar of the
media moguls who are attempting to engineer a "Bush=Truman" story arc.

What we need is a "Kerry=Reagan" or "Kerry=Kennedy" story arc...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. Kerry Is Still Truman Because They Think Bush Will Win....

I don't have their Crystal ball....

[Cronus Protagonist]

37. ^-- IMPORTANT POST

Spot on analysis. The game ain't over yet and the win goes to the one who's head gets across the line first, not to the better athelete or the one who plays fair.


http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[democrat_patriot]

25. The moderator picks the questions? Gallop picked audience?

Should be fun:

"Mr PretZeldent, my first question is more of a statement - I'm glad your OUR Pretzeldent"

"Mr. Kerry, what's it like being an America Hating Flip-folpper? And why do you hate puppies?"

I am more than confident that JK will do well. He's hit his stride people!! 26 days!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. maybe Kerry told bush a pretzel joke before the first debate (nt)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Kick As The Antidote To The Doom And Gloomers(nt)

[AspenRose]

32. Personally I am expecting a "fool me once" moment

You know, when he'll attempt to use some sort of quote or maxim to connect with the people, and screw it up royally.

It may be mean, but I hope he does just that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. Unless He Gets A Brain Transplant Why Should We Expect A Better

Performance...

[Cronus Protagonist]

33. George is going to do the hard work needed to win this one

He likes to be the underdog. He's dangerous when he's skeered.


http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. He's A Pussy....

nt

[Cronus Protagonist]

38. Whya re you trying to raise expectaitons of Kerry and lower them of Bush?

Whos side are you on?


http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[elperromagico]

41. Who are we lowering Kerry's expectations for? Ourselves?

I'm nervous about tomorrow night's debate. Not because of Bush, but because of the media. I was shocked when they called it for Kerry last time, even though it was clear that Kerry had won.

I'm worried that, if Bush can just keep his head above water, he'll be regarded as the winner.

[Cronus Protagonist]

44. That sounds much more realistic than the title of this thread

This is war. Anything can happen and our enemy controls the stage, the platrorm, the questioner, the audience, the questions, the temperature, the audio and video feeds, the spin machine at each network and almost all the entire media in this country, not to mention to a lesser extent Congress, the Senate, the Supreme Court, the administration and the Pentagon.

Anyone who thinks winning an election under these circumstances is going to be any kind of a slam dunk is seriously either working for the enemy or they're being a pollyanna.


http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. This Is DU

Who are we going to spin at D U?


Ourselves...


It's rediculous....

[Cronus Protagonist]

45. You are sorely mistaken

I'll leave it at that.


http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. It's A Serious Question?

What are the benefits of downplaying Kerry's chances of beating Bush at Democratic website?


It would be akin to my downplaying the chances of the Patriots beating the Dolphins at the New England Patriots website...


And The Dolphins are thirteen point dogs and I'd give them a better shot than Chimpy...

[elperromagico]

39. Yeah, he sure was dangerous in that Florida classroom on 9/11,

when he was told that America was under attack. If that's the kind of dangerous we should expect, then I'm not nearly as nervous.

[AngryLizard]

40. My second guess is that Bush is going to speak as little

as humanly possible. And someone needs to tell him to stand up straight. Always.

I can't help thinking the Bush team is going to pull something. Maybe Bush will turn all hostile to try and either anger Kerry, or put him in a position where he's not defending himself (if he won't defend himself, how can he defend you?). I'm predicting Bush is going to be vicious tomorrow. His base will like that.

[elperromagico]

43. Kerry's a hard guy to rattle when it comes to debating.

I think William Weld has commented on that. It's hard to throw the man off.

[AngryLizard]

46. Yeah, but if you start tossing the kitchen sink at him

swift boat vets, testifying against soldiers, 87 billion, jesus just everything they've been saying for the past six months, Bush can certainly put him in a position where people wonder why Kerry won't just answer the damn questions. At that point, it won't matter if Kerry is rattled. But whether or not Bush can do that and not look like a complete asshole is the question. Even cheap shots take a bit of finesse (see: Cheney in VP debate)

[elperromagico]

48. And Bush does not possess great quantities of finesse.

If he does, he's been hiding them for decades.

[AngryLizard]

49. True. But then again, what does he have to lose by trying

His base would love it if he attacked, and the Bush team is all about shoring up the base. I honestly think it's his only choice, unless they've given him some special medication that stops him from being a spazz. And boosts his IQ.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. Bush Doesn't Do Nuance...

He prides himself about being the bull(shitter) in the china shop...

My mom is eighty six years old...She watchs the news all day....She has a better grasp of the issues than Chimpy....

[Radio-Active]

51. the problem for Bush tomorrow is...

liars don't like to be around people who see them as liars. He knows deep down that his whole administration has been based on lies. He can't handle anyone who hasn't swallowed his whole line of crap.

As long as he stays in his bubble, he has nothing to be afraid of. Bush has become increasingly touchy about the unknown. Last week he only had to deal with x-factor that is Kerry. This week, any of the audience members could change their pre-scripted questions, sending him off-balance. As a result, he is paranoid in the most banal of settings.

Kerry can go in with confidence, comfortable that he tells the truth.

[mzmolly]

52. Unfortunately the "Truth" has no place in the analysis by the media

pundits after the debate.

They'll declare, "Bush gained back some ground" ... "Bush was really in his element tonight" ... "Kerry seemed aloof and wordy, George Bush really connected with the people" ... :puke:

I can only hope that Bush craps himself like he did the first night, but my guess is that his "anecdotes, bromides, homilies, and platitudes" will carry him through? aMerika eats that shit up. :crazy:

:shrug:

Hope your right though. :)