Harkin on Wolf Blitzer: "Dean is broadening our party."

[Padraig18]

Just now. Said the tremedous importance of this, plus the energizing of the grass roots is critical to success in November.:)

[slinkerwink]

1. great news!

did you hear there's going to be a TV ad with Dean and Harkin in it going up this week?

[Padraig18]

2. Yes, I did.

:)

[kerryistheanswer]

4. Congrats to Dean on Harkin BUT....

Harkin's perception that Dean is broadening the party is a bit false - he's been divisive in his attacks against the DLC and moderates. While some of his attacks are justified, there's a good chance that many of the Clinton Republicans and Reagan Democrats will go the other way. I'm not sure if our side can gather enough votes to win without them.

That's why we need a two state solution here in the U.S. - or maybe we in the Northeast can join Canada?

Peace.

[ozone_man]

13. Dean is a moderate.

He attracts from both ends of the political spectrum. He may lose some of the DLC Republican lite types, but he will more than make up for them by adding new voters who have been discouraged or unrepresented before. There are many more Liberal Republicans (Jeffords/Snow type) and libertarians who will vote for Dean. There is a power struggle now, but once this nasty primary phase passes, a rebuilding and reuniting of the party will happen, if Dean is the candidate. JMHO.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stickdog]

24. Yeah. And YOUR left got 10% of the vote that almost gave VT a Repuke

governor.

And this was in a state with a socialist Rep, and an independent Senator.

[Mairead]

31. Vermont DOES have a GOP governor, and did before Dean too

It's an unbroken series, really -- the only difference is that Dean wore an unconvincing Donkey suit (whence the rise of the real-Dem opposition). Dean's popularity steadily declined -- unlike Kucinich, who won in his conservative district against an incumbent Republican by a relatively small majority that he has increased steadily since then.

[stickdog]

49. Yes. VT has a GOP Gov. because Dean was sick of fighting your

extreme left.

Happy now?

[oasis]

32. How so? This guy chides DLC Democrats for being "Republican-lite"

Do you think Dean is has exploited the "anger" of the rank and file members of the party in an effort to overthrow the leadership?

The information is pouring in on his record and his recent flip-flops. The wheels are sure to come off his bandwagon but will it be in time to rescue the planet from the likes of George W. Bush.

Dean's supporters had better take their heads out of the sand or their stubborness will result in decades of intolerable rulings from a monstrous Supreme Court.

[stickdog]

50. Dean listened to the rank and file while others kept enabling Bush. (nt)

[oasis]

61. Team Dean/Trippi was researching and politicking while legislators were

doing their best to fend off a right wing onslaught in the wake of the 9/11 trauma.

[Eloriel]

38. I dunno, Mairead

The facts clearly paint your assertions as -- well, let's just say not in the least credible.

Healthcare for all children (he started out trying to get it for all and like Clinton found that one fell swoop wasn't the way to get there); a program which has cut child abuse by 43% and child sexual abuse by 70%; millions of acres under permanent protection; support for nurses unionizing; two increases in the minimum wage; and so on.

For anyone who knows even a little about Dean, your post sounds like you're talking about someone else, or simply Orwellian.

Eloriel

[Mairead]

65. My assertions are supported, Eloriel. Look at Dean's website and policies

He's fond of making simple declarative statements ('healthcare for all') that are completely unsupported by the details. He makes assumptions that seem to be based in his lifelong personal experience of GOP family wealth and privilege rather than the experience of people who must work every day of their lives to scrape a bare existence. He assumes, e.g., that the working poor can and will pay for health insurance. There is good evidence (http://www.newsday.com/features/columnists/ny-saul3591446dec20,0,3608068.column?coll=ny-features-columnists) that even 'boomers' at the peak of their earning power aren't doing this -- they're trying to tough it out til Medicare kicks in for them because for-profit insurance is a catastrophe for anyone but the wealthy!

His gubernatorial history is as I declared it to be and as others (Dan Brown, for the strongest example) have demonstrated it to be. Dean was elected in a trad-GOP state paired with a GOP governor, which suggests something about how people perceived his real politics. He succeeded to office not on his own merits but by the death of that governor. And in every election since then he has lost ground while liberal opposition has grown in strength. Did he turn the office over to a Dem successor? No, he either couldn't or chose not to even try.

His STATED PLANS are to continue pouring money into the pockets of the owners of the war industry at the same obscene rate Bush is doing.

Just as Bush is doing, Dean plans to continue the vicious drugs war that has destroyed countless lives worldwide and our Constitutional rights here at home.

Just as Bush is doing, Dean plans to leave our kids in Iraq, killing and being killed, maiming and being maimed, turning their minds into sewers -- all for the sake of profits for the wealthy elite few.

His health insurance plan is an arrogant travesty when looked at in light of the overwhelming support --nearly 3 out of 4-- for single-payer, universal-coverage healthcare.

He has no plans to enforce the civil rights of LGB people as would be his Constitutional duty.

He has no policies that set him strongly apart from Bush. At best his policies represent tweaking the status quo, whence my calling him 'Bush Lite'. I'm not making this up--it's all on his website for anyone who's willing to look.

[stickdog]

23. Neocon imperialists have no place in our party. They are a cancer on our

great nation.

And they are the only "Democrats" Dean is alienating.

[Marian]

58. Now, THAT'S a broad brush!

Dean alienates me and I'm no neocon imperialist! He alienates me because his words do not match his actions; either as Governor of VT or on the campaign trail.

Your post is quite inflammatory and does nothing to move the discourse in a positive way.

[ozone_man]

11. No, that's great.

A little visibility with Harkin and Dean will go a long way.

[Padraig18]

3. Kick

completely gratuitous. :)

[KittyWampus]

5. Yeah, He Has To Make Up For All The Democrats He's Pissed Off

What a hypocrite... calls Congress people Bushlite for voting for the IWR and yet asks same people for endorsements.

Why aren't Dean supporters lambasting Harking for his vote on the IWR?

[stickdog]

28. Who is the hypocrite here, Dean, Harkin or you?

Harkin isn't pissed off at Dean.

Why are you?

Are you actually threatening to sit out the election?

[KittyWampus]

6. Well Tom, Did You Repudiate Your IWR Vote?

Cause Dean thinks you're Bush Lite and so do many Dean's Supporters.

[Monte Carlo]

9. He dared put his confidence in Bush in matters of war, ya know...

... he signed on with Bush. What did he know that 23 Democratic Senators didn't?

[Monte Carlo]

7. To play the Devil's advocate...

... I heard talk about bringing brand new, enthusiastic, and evangelical voters to the polls in 2000 for the Nader campaign not only for the Green party, but for the Democrats for congressional races. I've also heard lots of talk about from the Dean campaign about bringing in new voters and "broadening the base", but I have only heard this in vague, non-quantitative terms. No numbers makes me nervous. How do I know it won't fall tragically short like it did in 2000?

[stickdog]

29. You don't. But I've already helped register several hundred new voters.

What are you doing?

[Monte Carlo]

45. Me? I've got a job and money to worry about.

And it eats up a great deal of my time. I contribute what I can.

[sandnsea]

53. Begging several hundred voters to stay

Every single person I know can't figure out what the Dean appeal is. Well, save for my upper-class cousin in California. I literally don't know ANYBODY who likes Dean, Democrat, Republican, Independent. All I can tell them is he can't possibly win, please give the Democrats time to come to their senses and get behind whoever the alternative will be.

And if there's such a flood of new registers, you'd think it would make the newspaper somewhere. Can you point me to ONE local article about the flood of new registers at a county election office. Just ONE.

[stickdog]

64. If you want a flood, people like you & Monte Carlo are going to have to

get to work.

[KittyWampus]

8. What About The Bush Enabling Patriot Act, Tom. It Makes You A Cockroach

[Walt Starr]

10. You're damn straight he's broadening the party

He's getting new voters and people who have never been voters before into politics.

Unfortunately, if Dean is not the nominee, none of the others can count on this support moving to them.

[Bread and Circus]

12. I'd like to see some proof...seems like Harkin is rationalizing.

[realdem]

14. Go to a Dean Meetup for proof

[Padraig18]

15. You'll see proof soon enough.

:)

[Bread and Circus]

63. K

[oasis]

16. Dean agenda: Broaden the party while simultaneously dumping the DLC.

Getting Bush out of the White House is not necessarily his primary concern.

What ever happened to rescuing the supreme court, the econnomy the planet?

[Lobo_13]

17. First things first

You can't do all that until you broaden the party AND dump the spineless DLC. They are a drag on the party.

[oasis]

18. "DLC a drag on the party"? Yep, they dragged Democrats kicking and

screaming into the White house in '92. Compromise is a key ingredient in a formula for winning.

[Lobo_13]

20. I beg to differ

Bill Clinton dragged the DLC into the White House through his own force of will and charisma. Don't underestimate the genius that is the Big Dog.

Case in point, look at where the DLC has been after Clinton moved on to greener pastures. A feckless group of insider hacks who is hell bent on beating the GOP by being like the GOP.

[oasis]

37. "The genius that is the big dog" is still backing the DLC. (eom)

[jburton]

25. 1992 = 12 years ago...a political eternity

more relevent would be the DLC disaster of 2002

[oasis]

39. As GWB has said many times "9/11 changed everthing". The sad truth is that

in 2002, most Americans (including politicians) were looking through the lens of a horrific disaster and "reacted" accordingly.

Miscalculations also play a part in politics.

[Zynx]

26. We would have barely won in '92 if it wasn't for Perot.

In addition, our party has been crushed in Congress and on the state and local level since Clinton came in. There is a lot more to politics than the presidency you know.

[jburton]

35. Perot was not helpful

Exit polling had him taking as many votes away from BushI as Clinton.

==In addition, our party has been crushed in Congress and on the state and local level since Clinton came in. ==

Doesn't that prove my point? Clinton was DLC.

[stickdog]

33. Yeah. We compromised on Gore's election, compromised on Iraq,

compromised on Medicare, compromised away our advantage in the Senate, compromised on the Repuke fraudomatic voting machines, and compromised on war profiteering.

Is that what you call winning, oasis?

[oasis]

42. I'm for solutions, but throwing the baby out with the bathwater is always

a bad choice.

[stickdog]

52. Dean is a Democrat through and through.

He won't be throwing out any babies other than baby Bush.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

21. He's bringing people in now. He will drive others away later

The question is can he net a gain? Statements like: "We won't always have the strongest military" are sure to drive moderates away.

[Lobo_13]

22. Only stupid moderates

who are easily replaced.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

27. It would be foolish to overlook the consequences of that statement

Kerry mentioned it again on MTP today. It was an incredibly naive and out of the mainstream thing to say, and it will scare many, many, moderates away from Dean and towards Bush.
That one stupid statement will be hammered over Dean's head by the GOP image makers hourly.

[Zynx]

30. And how exactly does Kerry bring in moderates?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

36. Kerry's gotten just about every firefighter's union endorsement possible

and a lot of union support in general. I'd say that represents good moderate appeal.
Also, whenever I look at demographics of Kerry supporters in any poll, the balance is almost perfectly even across the spectrum.

[stickdog]

54. So union labor = moderate?

Whatever.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

66. Cops and fireman and other unions not typically liberals

but maybe you haven't noticed that before? :shrug:

[sandnsea]

56. oh for pete's sake

Small Business legislation. Protecting middle class tax cuts. Supporting trade agreements with the protections we need. Strong on security and foreign relations. Cops on the Street and support for local security and assistance. Truly liberal on social causes with a keen sense of how to implement them to help business and the people. There's just no comparison. It's utterly stupid that we're not electing him. The dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life.

[Lobo_13]

41. It doesn't make it less true

There is more to be gained by bringing in the people who don't vote than there will be lost by making the compromises necessary in convincing people who otherwise wouldn't vote for you to do so.

We've got the moderate Dems, and probably a good deal of the moderate republicans at this point. We need to get the non-voting dems back into the system.

[oasis]

44. "Stupid" moderates who support a strong U.S. military are a

constituency that is not easily replaced. Dr. Dean cannot escape the perception that he is dramatically inferior to GWB in matters of national security and defense.

No amount of Dean's ad money to counter that perception will be able the change that.

[stickdog]

34. Yeah. And think of the damage he could do if he ever said something like

"the sun will one day turn into a red giant and engulf the Earth."

[mbali]

40. This concept of "broadening" the party makes me nervous

I have no inherent objection to reaching out to non-Democrats. But I have an uneasy sense that Dean's approach is to do this at the expense of the many people who are already in the party but need to be energized.

In particular, I'm thinking of African Americans, but there are many others. There are more than enough Democrats already in the ranks who, if inspired and energized, could guarantee a huge Democratic victory in November. Unfortunately, many of us are taken for granted or told to sit tight and be quiet while our issues are ignored in favor of "reaching out" to people who's interests are antithetical to ours.

That's why I've been very troubled by Howard Dean's approach and rhetoric. His entire platform on race seems to be that he's going to convince white people to vote for him, that he wants white people to understand that Republicans are bad for them, that he's eager to show white people why they should vote Democratic. I can't help but wonder if he has, even subconsciously, written off much of the black vote by concvincing himself that the new white people he's hoping to attract will more than make up for the black votes he's not going to get.

And, to make it worse, whenever black folks raise an objection to Dean's approach on race (which, like it or not, is very offensive to many of us), we are shouted down with cries of "Dr. Dean is NOT a racist - you're just helping Bush!!!" and "You don't UNDERSTAND what Gov. Dean is trying to do!!!" and "Howard Dean had a black roommate!!!" and "Howard Dean is the ONLY white man on earth who is brave enough to confront this issue!!!" and "You obviously don't know what you're talking about because BOTH black people that I know think Howard Dean is GREAT!!!"

As an African American, I have no desire to support a candidate who seems as eager as Dean is to "reach out" to the very folks who my people look to the Democratic Party to protect us from. Conferederate flag wavers are voting Republican instead of Democratic not because they are stupid or don't understand that the Republicans don't truly have their economic interests at heart, but because they're bigots who know that Republicans are more likely to help them maintain the social status quo they prefer. They don't vote for Democrats because they believe that Democrats are too concerned about the interests of minorities. The only way to attract these people into the Democratic Party is to convince them that those concerns will be addressed. And that means something's got to give - and we all know what that will be.

I'm sorry, but my idea of a big tent does not have room for minorities and racists to co-exist together. I don't want those people in my tent, plain and simple.

I would feel much better about Dean if he spent more time trying to shore up the base of the party that is already much more likely to vote for him if he pays them a little attention than any white Confederate flag waver is. If he focused more attention on how to attract more minority votes, he wouldn't need the bigots. He'd hit the mother lode if he just mined his own backyard.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

43. Great post. This is exactly where Bush wants to do the end around on us

and Dean is in a bad direction here.
Also, the religion tangent is what won him the pander bear award for 2003 by a Washington columnist- who said Dean's pandering had been so exterme that it wasn't even close when choosing.

[stickdog]

55. So, I guess Jackson & Conyers are just big sellouts, right?

No, Dean isn't God's gift to race relations. If you compare Dean to absolute perfection, he does indeed come up a bit short.

But which major candidate is exciting African Americans, mbali, other than none of the above?

At least Dean is trying -- even if his efforts aren't PC enough for you.

[Marian]

60. Thank you for that post!

:pals:

[ThirdWheelLegend]

46. broadening...as in getting Dems to accept right leaning policy?

This is my biggest fear.. out of the support for Dean, too many now seem happy to support:

Pentagon Budget.
NAFTA.
Patriot Act.
Death penalty.
Pro-gun.
Big energy.
Continued illegal occupation of Iraq.
Health insurance industry.

Maybe I am getting old, but I don't think those are Democratic values.

TWL

[Padraig18]

47. Nah.

The further 'left' one is when looking at it, the more 'right' it seems; simply a matter of perspective. :)

[ThirdWheelLegend]

48. ? I am truly in awe of your response.

These are things you say are a matter of perspective. Bush killed thousands of Iraqi's, or is it a matter of perspective. We continue to kill Iraqis and our soldiers die, the illegal occupation futhers this, or is it just a matter of perspective.

NAFTA gives more power to the corporations while destroying worker's rights and the environment and loses jobs. Or is that a matter of perspective.

The Pentagon budget is almost equal to all other nations combined and is a tool of death and destruction around the globe, or is that a matter of perspective.

The Patriot Act ERODES civil liberties and gives more right to the goverment to detain CITIZENS without rights. Or is that a matter of perspective?

I'm done...

TWL

[Padraig18]

51. My, my, my--- where did THAT come from?

All I did was make a simple comment about political perspective. :shrug:

Peace. :hi:

[stickdog]

57. Not quite.

Pentagon Budget - No. But no Dem -- not even Clark -- will win in 2004 by making defense cuts a priority.

NAFTA - No. Like most of us, Dean recognizes that free trade agreements need more protections.

Patriot Act - No. Where do you get that Dean is pro-Patriot Act?

Death penalty - It's an American perversion. I don't understand it, but federal death penalty cases (especially as Dean sees them) will be far and few between.

Pro-gun - Dean's right on gun control. States like VT don't need it.

Big energy - How do you figure?

Continued illegal occupation of Iraq - Dean is our best bet out of Iraq.

Health insurance industry - If single payer had a chance in the House, why hasn't DK gotten a bill passed?

[mzmolly]

59. Oh good gosh.

:eyes:

Are voting to protect the flag, prevent choice, send minors to prison "Democratic Values?"

[mzmolly]

62. I totally agree with Harkin here. His endorsement means a great deal to

me personally. As far as I'm concerned, it's the biggest one yet. :)