Federal judge allows Bible club to meet at O.C. high school

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: OC Register

A federal judge has ordered Esperanza High School to allow a yet-to-be-organized Bible club to meet, at least temporarily, on campus this year despite initial opposition from school administrators.

After five students submitted a request to start the club at the Anaheim Hills school in May, administrators denied their request, saying the club was not related to the school's curriculum.

A lawsuit was filed against the Placentia-Yorba Linda Unified School District in July. The plaintiff, an unidentified student represented by the Pacific Justice Institute, says the district is discriminating against the religious club and is violating the student's First and 14th Amendment rights, said lead attorney Karen Milam.

"The judge ordered the Bible club be allowed to exist and be given the rights and privileges of other clubs on campus," Milam said.



Read more: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/club-school-clubs-2145343-judge-district

[msongs]

1. they also need a koran and hindu club as freedom balance nt

[TCJ70]

8. If there's interest in starting one...

...then a student can do that. Administration cannot.

[AlphaCentauri]

9. then the government will be indirectly promoting religion n/t

[TCJ70]

11. How do you figure?

This is a student initiative. It has been well established that student led religious clubs are allowed on school grounds and that the term "religious club" is not restricted to Christians.

[AlphaCentauri]

23. Most Bible Clubs are specific to a church denomination to grab new members

Using tax payers financed facilities to convert people should not be legal.

[TCJ70]

25. And as soon as the club goes out of...

...bounds, it will most likely be disbanded. Who says their goal is conversion by the way? I've never heard of a Christian group in a school being a certain denomination...but that's just my experience. As long as other religions are allowed to form clubs based on their books, I really don't see the problem.

[LostinVA]

27. School clubs are not tax-financed

The clubs are responsible for their own funds. That's how many gay-straight alliances were able to get started. As long as the club doesn't prostelyize, I don't have a problem with it.

[AlphaCentauri]

28. exactly, the objectives of gay-straight alliances are not to convert people

[LostinVA]

31. Neither are HS Bible Clubs

They're both protected by the SAME LAW.

Believe me, I'm a huge proponent of separation of Church and State, but the law is on their side here.

[heliarc]

13. Most clubs operate after school... Not during school hours...

I don't have a problem with a Christian club operating during hours outside of classtime... Any other group or club is generally just as tangential to a school's curriculum... Chess club, Young Democrats, Cheerleading ... anything else that isn't really curricular can meet after school, why not people who believe in ghosts?

[Zhade]

26. Well, only if they disallow other clubs.

NT!

[dysfunctional press]

16. not unless enough students are interested in starting one...

nt

[Nye Bevan]

2. I think that's OK

as long as atheist, wiccan and pagan clubs would also be allowed.

[JDPriestly]

3. As long as the school itself is not endorsing or teaching a religion,

students may do what they want. The court simply applied the law. The school cannot prohibit the exercise of free speech of this sort anymore than it can, as a government institution, broadcast Bible verses over the loudspeaker each day. This is consistent with existing law.

[Cronus Protagonist]

4. That should be popular !!

(lol)

[TommyO]

5. This is a settled issue

if clubs are allowed, the school administration can't discriminate. They have to allow bible clubs, and gay/straight alliances equally.

[jae1227]

6. Why is this news

At my old high school some of the homophobic parents were scared because our school had a LGBT club. The Principal had to come out and state that it was against the law to discriminate different clubs. So I don't know what the story is here.

[AlphaCentauri]

7. Maybe because there are more than 4000 interpretations of the Bible

depending on who is making the Bible club it can be a free propaganda for their church on gaining new members. Many churches that use the Bible as their fundamental sacred view can't get along with similar cristian churches.

[heliarc]

14. Granted... fair enough...

but I don't see evidence here that the club was created to exclude one denomination or another... Sports clubs exclude people who can't handle required athletic involvement, but that goes without saying for most athletic clubs, I left my Science club because there was a really annoying girl there... so what? I don't feel discriminated against because I couldn't stand her take on science or her attitude...

If they can't have the club... afterschool, following the restrictions of every other club, than THAT is discrimination. There are Democratic party clubs aren't there?... those clubs tend to exclude Republicans right?

[AlphaCentauri]

22. Most Clubs have an specific agenda

A bible club it's not the same as a pentecostal bible club, a catholic bible club, baptist bible club.

The name Bible Club is a generic name it hides their their agenda, like convert people to their version of the bible.

Democratic clubs, republican clubs or gay-lesbian clubs we know what they are about no hiding agendas.

[JDPriestly]

20. So . . . . That's the First Amendment -- right to free speech and assembly.

[AlphaCentauri]

21. inside the school?

[JDPriestly]

29. As long as it is independently organized. Yes.

[JDPriestly]

33. Yes. Students have the free speech right to express themselves

about their religion in schools.

There is a delicate balance between freedom to exercise speech about religion and separation of church and state.

Your teacher cannot teach you about her religion or try to inculcate her religion into you, but you, as a student, can write a paper about something to do with your religion and post it on a board in your classroom.

[bluestateguy]

10. Fine with me

and the same rights should be accorded to Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, and Pagan groups.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

12. Don't forget the Atheists.

[heliarc]

15. I would have gotten so beat up if I had started an atheist club...

Wish I had done it, and sic'ed the ACLU on everyone.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

18. The only way to evolve to a state of religious tolerance

is by not tolerating intolerance.

Does your brain hurt yet? :P

[dysfunctional press]

17. yeah...so what?

:shrug:

non-issue.

[4lbs]

19. Violation of their rights?

Umm.... the US Supreme Court has already stated that a student's locker, and privacy, can be violated any time the police see fit to search it.

Violation of their 1st and 14th Amendment rights? How so? Because they can't meet at a STATE or FEDERALLY funded school? To keep the spirit of "separation of church and state" alive?

Once again, their 1st and 14th Amendment rights aren't being abridged, as it's not like the principal told them they couldn't meet at all, anywhere. Just not at school.

I wonder how much of a stink would have been raised and support given had it been a group of Muslim students asking for a meeting place at school, or a group of "radical left-wing hippies" asking for a place to meet and protest against the establishment.

[knitter4democracy]

24. Why did the principal fight this? It's pretty established law.

They have to meet after school, and if I remember right, can't have a teacher moderator. I know my high school group didn't. We met before school in the library on our own as a group. The school knew we existed, but that was all they had to do with us. No big deal.

[Dr Fate]

30. Good. If they allow other non-academic clubs, and it is student led, I have no problem.

If you allow a chess club,a D & D club or a scuba-diving club on school property, then I say the wack-os can have their club too.

Problem is, now some smart alec (or sincere) students have a good argument for approval of a Satan or Pagan club...

[muntrv]

32. You have a place to pray and study the Bible. It's called a house of worship

These Bible thunkers are too lazy or hungover to get out of bed and go to church, so they need the government to breast feed them their religion.