Anybody know what got into Dayton this afternoon?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

He not only came out against Boxer's resolution but also seems to have rediscovered his old stammer.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

1. I don't know.

He looked like a different man. Sorta shaken.

[Wickerman]

2. sad

I wonder what the story is - I thought he got it.

[hermetic]

3. from Truthout

Senator Dayton (D-MN)
Thursday 06 January 2005 @ 01:43
rises to object to Boxer's challenge. Calls it "seriously misguided."

I'm starting to think maybe we are seriously misguided, about Dayton.

[mzmolly]

16. I'm wondering that myself.

:(

[dpbrown]

4. What a disappointment

Criticizing a move that many Minnesotans support is not going to garner Dayton any fresh support with Republicans, to say nothing about his "base."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

5. What I don't understand is that...

he could have just not said anything. Instead, he spoke first after Boxer (although very nervously) and, unlike the other Dem speakers, did not thank Boxer and did not support any of the accusations.

That's why I'm wondering if they got to him somehow.

[dpbrown]

10. Probably chose to not give Smarmy Coleman any ammunition

And he evaluated the risk of having the Daschle hate-radio machine turned on him 24/7 from now through election day and decided it wasn't worth taking a stand.

Hate radio has pretty much perfected the character assassination game now through their years of practice and the breadth of their reach in AM and FM through media consolidation and syndication of the biggest hate-freaks. It's a creepy world for a politician to take a stand in nowadays.

I read now that no Senator stood with Boxer, in the end, despite warm words. Still disappointed that Dayton chose criticism, but more disappointed that the Senate appears to have no spine in general.

And John "Wrong on Iraq, Wrong on the Death Penalty, Wrong on NAFTA, Wrong on Venezuela, Got the Nomination Anyway" Kerry wasn't even in the country, so I guess I've got to keep some perspective on Dayton.

He's still going to vote the correct stand most of the time, and he's still accessible to progressives. He's not Norm, a disgrace to New Jersey, great steak restaurants, and Minnesota.

I wish Dayton hadn't felt the need to criticize Boxer, though.

The reason the ability to object to electors is there, is to use it when things get weird. Did they get weird? Yes.

Now let's do something about it, and take our damn Democracy back.

DPB

[Supormom]

33. As if it will matter.

"And he evaluated the risk of having the Daschle hate-radio machine turned on him 24/7 from now through election day and decided it wasn't worth taking a stand."
The right wing hate-mongers have already started in on Dayton. He cannot avoid the attacks 24/7. At least if he stood up and fought for us he could have gained more support among progressives and liberals.

[dpbrown]

39. Exactly right...which is what baffles me about his move

I can't understand that he apparently didn't evaluate his "backbone meter" to figure out that he gains more credibility with the people who may work the hardest for him by standing up for principle.

He'll never gain anything from the rabid Republican hate machine anyway. Why ever even make a token effort?

DPB

[mzmolly]

17. I agree, he's burning bridges at both ends.

the dumbass.

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

6. Mark Doormat (nt)

[lakeguy]

7. sad to hear dayton do this, very sad...

i think he may have just lost my support and my vote:-(

[Spike from MN]

8. He had already lost my support.

Looks like it's third party for me from now on. At least until I can scrape up the money move to Canada. ;)

[DFLforever]

9. Whatever his thinking on the issue, he handled it terribly!

He was obviously given the job of speaking for the Democratic senators who dissented from this action. I think that's why he went first followed by Durbin who chimed in for the marginal dissenters/supporters and it took off from there.

Imo his stammer was due to nervousness about playing this role and so patently ignoring constituents who contacted and made information available to him.

I was not one who thought Dayton should speak out on Ohio. But I never imagined he would say what he did today.

[katinmn]

15. I agree. His reason for getting up was lost on me.

It would have been better to say nothing than to say that those who wanted to contest were "misguided" and referenced how it sets a bad precedent.

I was really angry with him. Now I'm just confused. What was it all about?

[Krupskaya]

11. I'm wondering why people are looking for reasons not to vote for Dayton.

Some of you seem to have a few reasons. What are they?

[Spike from MN]

14. I wasn't LOOKING for a reason. Dayton gave them to me.

I spelled out a couple of beefs I have with him in a previous post on in the "Dayton is running for re-election" thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=160x5838

Oh, and his stance on the flag-burning amendment didn't help with me either. No, I wasn't looking for a reason to not support him and most here would probably agree that voting third party is the equivalent of throwing away your vote. So be it. I can't vote for Dayton and sure as hell won't ever vote for a Repug so voting third party is my only option. Personally, I'm leaning towards the Communist party at the moment, just to send a message. ;)

[mzmolly]

19. I'll support him in the end, but he really surprised me today.

He has failed me on other occassions too, and if he keeps this trend, I'll have a hard time continuing my support.

[Dickie Flatt]

20. I'm looking forward to '08

When we'll hopefully have a nice set of candidates to choose from.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

21. If he keeps failing you, why keep supporting him?

I'm all for starting a search for a good challenger for the '06 primary.

[mzmolly]

23. He doesn't fail me on all counts. That's why.

He's done some great things, and I think he's a man of integrity, though I don't always agree with him.

Again, I take the entire record of service into account, and he has a solid record - for the most part.

[lakeguy]

40. my reason for considering the idea of not voting for dayton is that...

not only did he not support bringing to light a serious problem with the most fundamental ideal our democracy is based on, he spoke against it. i am so disappointed that i can't find the words to describe it. the fact that he stammered through the whole thing (I know he has a problem speaking) circumstantially proves to me that he didn't really believe in what he was saying. i'm tired of politicians who don't believe in what they are saying or that will say anything to get elected. as long as we support those that do this, candidates will continue to do it.

i do think dayton has done some good things but he really blew it with this one, big time. this wasn't just some policy issue either, it was a big deal.

or, maybe i'm just an idealist who misses wellstone:-(

[Krupskaya]

41. Did you consider not voting for Wellstone when he voted for DOMA?

Some people considered it, I know, and some considered it a deal breaker. I'm just saying people can blow it and still do a ton of good.

[Dickie Flatt]

44. And the Patriot Act

[lakeguy]

45. okay, who else wants to add one?

this wasn't a vote for a piece of legislation, i guess i didn't make that clear in my posts. besides, i don't think someone who would vote for a candidate based on one decision alone would have any candidates to vote for at all, in the end. granted, some decisions carry more weight than others...

also, i never said that dayton should have voted one way or the other. i wouldn't have though twice about him voting "no", especially with the amount of hard evidence presented beforehand and how the repubs would try to twist the vote in 06. but to stand up and voice an opinion against it was something totally different. the fact that he did it so poorly, and seemingly without conviction was disheartening and embarrassing. not only that, but it gives repubs ammo against the dems who did vote for it or supported it ("look here, even other dems think you're an x-file democrat senator boxer"). that is why i will find it difficult to support dayton in 06.

[hansolsen]

47. K: Do I remember you from DFA forum? The reason I started this thread

was about 98% an emotional reaction to his conduct on the Senate floor and the rest a growing awareness that he is very vulnerable in 2006.

I am tired of defending the indefensible, i.e. Kerry's position on the war in Iraq. Defending Mark Dayton from his own foibles is going to be heavy lifting I'm afraid, and I say so sadly.

[Krupskaya]

49. Are you addressing me?

I'm not on the DFA forum.

[hansolsen]

50. Yes, and I seem to remember you from the original Dean forum. Perhaps

it was from the later Kerry forum, but in any case I fondly recall that you are one of the best debaters swimming the blogger sea.

[Krupskaya]

52. Those are some good strokes,

but I'm sure you have me mistaken with someone else. I'm surprised someone else has the same screen name, but this particular Krupskaya has never posted at DFA.

[Bill of Rights]

12. When is he up for election again?

I will support one of his primary opponents.

[Dickie Flatt]

13. 2006

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. He's up in '06.

Which is probably why he rolled over so shamefully today. And after today I, too, will support a good DFLer who challenges him in the '06 primary. I am really, really steamed about how he not only failed to stand with Boxer, he actually criticized her. That was disgusting, and IMO he can't redeem himself even if he votes against Gonzales.

I don't think going with a third party candidate is the solution because none of the third parties have enough of a structure or a concensus to support a viable challenge. Instead, I believe that what we have to do is get the DFL to support candidates whith spines. And we have to start right now. Who would be a good progressive type with cojones to go against Dayton in '06? Any ideas?

[hansolsen]

34. Yes, Al Franken. N/T

[dflprincess]

24. Serious primary fights usually spell disaster for the DFL

Remember, Minnesota doesn't hold it's primary until September - and a split in the party that close to the election usually spells doom.

I'm not happy with Mark today either - but he's 1,000 times better than Screech Kennedy and if there's a major primary fight that's who we'll wind up with for a senator.

[CatholicEdHead]

25. Possible to have non-combative primary

and choose someone other than Dayton? First off, who would want to, have the name recgonition, and can expect to beat Mark Kennedy?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. Patty Wetterling?

[dflprincess]

28. No one has the name recgonition and I can't imagine that any

serious candidate would challenge him either for endorsement or in the primary.

MzMolly is correct - we need to look at Dayton's entire record. Just because I'm not happy with what he did this afternoon doesn't mean I won't support him. As I said in another post on this thread, he was on fire this morning when he was talking about the administration's lies about Iraq (and then I was happy with him)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. So are we supposed to just roll over and accept

an unsatisfactory candidate? The primaries are there for a reason. If a better candidate turns up I will support that person over Dayton.

[dflprincess]

22. I don't know what he was thinking.

I saw him on CSPAN earlier in the day, obviously angry and saying it was time the administration stop lying (he actually used the L word)about Iraq. His behavior later in the day is strange and a complete 180. I wonder if someone got to him?

[Dickie Flatt]

29. this post highlighted on gop blog

http://minnesotademocratsexposed.blogspot.com/2005/01/vultures-are-beginning-to-circle-above.html

"THE VULTURES ARE BEGINNING TO CIRCLE ABOVE DAYTON
According to some DFL Party activists, Senator Dayton's
performance today in the U.S. Senate regarding validating
Ohio's electoral votes has them looking for a new Senate
candidate in 2006."

[DFLforever]

30. I hope we're not so stupid!

You know it's possible that Dayton actually believes Kerry lost this election, despite the goings on in Ohio.

[hansolsen]

31. Dayton is weak, vulnerable and running scared. Today's deeply

disappointing lap dog performance is the end for me -- off with his head.

Al Franken has expressed interest in running for the Senate in MN. He should not wait until 2008, he should eclare now and drive Dayton from the race. We want Dayton out before the 2006 Dem primary.

Dayton has been right on many issues, but he is a terrible spokesman and an embarrassment. Closing his Washington Office was also poor judgement in the extreme. We need to cut our losses.

[CatholicEdHead]

32. Franken signed through 2006 with AA

I am not sure what his contract is like to try to get out.

Whatever happens the DFL has to be careful not to be too idological and loose the big picture Senate seat over a couple bad days. A more moderate Dayton is better than any Mark Kennedy any day.

[DFLforever]

35. Please tell me how Franken is any better than Dayton.

I think they're in complete agreement on the election results.

[hansolsen]

36. Al Franken may not be the best alternative, but at least he can articulate

what he believes and why.

Dayton is so retarded the Dayton family wouldn't let him within a mile of the family business -- they encouraged him to go into politics where he couldn't do any harm. Dayton's public appearances are consistently an embarrassment to Minnesota and the DFL Party, IMO. And I say that as a life long Democrat.

As for Franken, I'm not really advocating him so much as finding an alternative, any alternative.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. Hmm, I've seen him in person twice since moving back here

and he seemed to speak just fine. That's why I was so surprised at how inarticulate he was yesterday.

[Krupskaya]

38. I object to your use of the word "retarded."

I find it offensive.

[hansolsen]

46. Sorry, you're right, of course. I happen to see Mr. Dayton as not very

bright and not very articulate, and I should have said that, rather than reach casually for an all too easy, hurtful label. I regret doing that. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

[Spike from MN]

42. I think I've picked my alternative.

I'm considering voting straight Commie ticket from now on. Do you think that will send a message. ;)

[Krupskaya]

43. Not particularly, no.

Do you?

[Zookeeper]

48. Very disappointing.

I e-mailed several Senators before the vote, but decided not to encourage Dayton to be the only Senator to stand since I don't think his seat is secure. Standing with other Senators was fine, but his performance was just wierd. I wasn't sure exactly what he was trying to say, but his negativity came across loud and clear.

[Carolab]

51. Well, I must jump in because I visited his aide locally about the 6th

And at first, I admit, I was upset and shocked. But, his aide had told us at the meeting that he was "worried about the precedent". I and the other two with me didn't get what he meant by that until hours later (I was thinking, "but what about 1876"? etc.). I had been told by another activist who met with him the night previous to our meeting that he was concerned about "proving Kerry won". It finally dawned on me that he was concerned that without an indisputable body of evidence an objection might create a precedent for unsubstantiated objections to other elections in the future and serve to disenfranchise voters altogether from the election process.
There was very little time to meet with Senator Dayton or his aides since he had just returned from Iraq and they said he had been getting most of his information about Ohio, etc. from MSM. He didn't have a full enough grasp of the situation, IMHO, and that that is why he was therefore not fully convinced of the basis for the objection.

[Alisa]

53. Reason enough NOT to say anything!

"He didn't have a full enough grasp of the situation, IMHO, and that that is why he was therefore not fully convinced of the basis for the objection."

And:
if he was chosen by the Democratic Caucus to represent those in the Democratic Caucus in opposition, they clearly don't want him re-elected and he is more the fool.

I wrote him before and after. And while he may have difficulty with comprehension I am sure he understood my position.

[Deja Q]

54. What did Dayton do?! Or, rather, more specifics?

He's usually a decent sort of chap... :-( DUnno about this Boxer resolution...