Im starting to think Kerry may have been a mistake....

[loveable liberal]

Now dont get me wrong, I'll vote for anyone left of center, but it just seems that the national party has let us down. Whose to say fright wing operatives didnt infiltrate the state caucuses? Its like this: wanna stop the NRA? Get all the progressives you can think of to join. Wouldnt take that many people, really. The DNC is trying to out-business the fright wing, which I dont think will work. We needed someone with a 'fire in the belly'. I like Howard Dean a lot. I think he's a Pit Bull. Dean is Wellstone-esque in my opinion.

One reason Jesse Ventura won the Governorship is that he showed the mainstream, buddy buddy, career politicians that they suck. Of course after Jesse, we have the same old crappy, 'groupthink' politicians that 'git-along' like nice little doggies.

If Kerry was on the ticket again, I'd certainly vote for him again, but the DNC better wake up and smell the coffee. Progressives make the future.

[pazarus]

1. i dont think a mistake...

...but it might be time for a bit more radicalism, I dont know. i heart kerry, and thinking back to the caucuses i remember hoping kerry would win, along with a lot of other people who didnt like the way dean was handling himself relative to a national race.

But like a friend once asked me... isnt the definition of insane trying to do the same thing over and over without ever succeeding or learning from the mistake? Maybe its not the definition persay, but it illustrates the point that maybe something new and radical is necessary instead of trying to run moderate and traditionally safe candidates.

Dean's alright, but I dont like him as a strategist. his campaign wasted a lot of money. He had extravagant gifts for supporters (they just wanted their country back, not stupid Dean bats) and he didnt know when to call off his losing bid and throw his financial support to the party. In my mind he's passionate and right, but not a strategist.

[bowens43]

2. He wasn't a mistake but he made MADE a huge mistake..

It started with that stupid salute and the 'Kerry reporting for duty' nonsense. Trying to run a s a war hero is what did him in. It gave the swift boat liars legitimacy in the eyes of the press.

[Demit]

3. I always wince when I think of that stunt. It was incredibly corny.

I console myself with thinking he was advised to do that by his handlers. Like Al Gore being advised to wear a sweater. They should cut that shit out. It's phony and it telegraphs as being phony.

[ladjf]

4. I believe the Kerry was chosen by "them" not "us". For the pubs,

it would be too good to be true if they could re-enter Kerry, a losing horse, into the race in 2008. But, it's not a matter of what "we" want. It might once again be a process manipulated by "them". (It only took about a week for the press to completely tear Dean down and replace him with Kerry. The "Dean Scream" has been proved to be the work if trick microphone use.)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

5. What I observed at my caucus was a lot of first-time caucus goers

I don't know how savvy they were. The high turnout suggests that they hated Bush, but I don't know to what degree they were passionate about any particular candidate.

By this time (March), everyone was out except Kucinich, Kerry, and Edwards. The Minnesota Dean people had voted to throw their support to Edwards, but he announced his withdrawal while the caucuses were going on, although no one knew it at the time.

At the beginning of my caucus, one of the old guard types stood up and told us that a vote for anyone other than Kerry or Edwards was "wasted." I then got up and said that caucus night was the only time we rank-and-file types had the opportunity to express our real opinions, so since Kerry most likely would sew up the nomination that night, with or without Minnesota, we should all vote for whomever we really wanted.

In order to make sure that the old guard types didn't try anything funny, I volunteered to be a teller. The paper ballot count came out to about 50% Kerry, 30% Edwards, 20% Kucinich, with one or two votes each for the remaining candidates.

[Krupskaya]

6. I'd like to see the comparisons between Dean and Wellstone END.

They make me want to hurl.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. I wouldn't go that far, but comparisons between

Dean and Wellstone make me suspect that the poster doesn't know much about one or both of them.

[Krupskaya]

8. I bow to your diplomacy.

:)

[DFLforever]

9. There are people who admire them both.

I'm one of them. Though I don't spend time comparing.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread, lovable liberal.

Yeah, Kerry's been a big disappointment. And no, I wouldn't vote for him again. But I don't expect him to be the nominee, either.

[no name no slogan]

10. I agree. I admire them both, but they are NOT the same-- not even close

Dean's own politics run pretty close to the center in most respects. However, unlike most "centrists", he's not afraid to stand up for them and evangelize.

Paul's politics were classically liberal, in the Hubert Humphrey vein. They are much further left than Dean's.

I'm not saying this to disparage either man, but the fact remains that they have two different platforms.

[loveable liberal]

11. wasnt really comparing politics as much as passion.

wellstone had a passion about him, the way he expressed himself and his ideas. Howard Dean struck me as similar. Thats really all I meant by the comparison. I love the left wing 'fire and brimstone' types. Deans yell in Iowa didnt embarass me, I applauded it.

[bvar22]

14. I agree with the Passion thing.

Paul Wellstone HAD IT!




JK did not have IT.
But JK could discuss the pros and cons of passion,
and could debate the issue from either side.

[lojasmo]

12. Kerry's candidacy WAS a mistake.

I'll NEVER vote for him again, I was ABB in the generals.

And NO I SURE AS HELL didn't throw my primary vote to Edwards. I wasn't even aware that many dean people had done so. I saw Edwards as too similar to Kerry in his refusal to stand against the bush junta over the last 4 years. Edwards will never get my vote either.

[Tigress DEM]

13. Vote Fraud and Being Denied DUE Process put a loser in, not

I repeat NOT our mistake.

If we won, according to estimates of how wide vote fraud was and how obstructed we have been in getting the correct vote counted, it wouldn't have mattered if our candidate was better than Kerry.

He was and is good enough. If the election results were overturned and he was put in the White House today, we'd at least have DUE process back and repeals of insane back door deals made behind the fog of war.

It's just that the people who own the voting machines, the people who counted the votes in key states and the people who disenfranchised voters have one thing in common, being lying cheating repubs.

Chimparella isn't my president.