Did * win Ohio fairly?

[mahina]

Was it a theft?

We are across a continent and an ocean, and the media is useless. Please tell me if it was stolen.

As far as what to do about it, Grannd D says treat it like a death in the family. We know what do do when a family member dies- cook a lot of food, get together and talk to each other. That is a good first step.

The republicans started running people for every office from the ground up long ago, so they are in a position of advantage now. Let's learn from them. There are great organizing tools out there- democracyforamerica.com, and what others? to help us win in 06 and then finally cure this disease in 08.
Aloha

[MercutioATC]

1. I think he DID win it "fairly".

There are a lot of morons out there.

[bones_7672]

2. If it was stolen ...

... why have no Dems in the state house said so? Why have no Dem officials on the county level said so? Why have no Dem judges said so? Why have no Dem county election officials said so? Just asking.

[Goldom]

3. No one did anything in 2000

and we all know it was then.

[DUreader]

7. Why have they avoided addressing E-voting for over 2 years now?

?

[mahina]

9. Since I'm not there I don' know what they have NOT done.

And your point is obvious, enjoy your stay.

[maxsmom]

4. palast says NO

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won_.php

[Village Idiot]

6. Beat me to it!

[Village Idiot]

5. No - he did not.

Nor did he win New Mexico, nor Florida!


http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php

[FatSlob]

10. Whatever, we lost fair and square.

[cmd]

8. It was fair. We lost. We underestimated their campaign.

I'm in rural Ohio. The right wing fundies killed us with their GOTV. We increased the number of voters and got them to the polls. They played the gay marriage card and got more people out. Ohio now has the most restrictive rules on marriage in the nation. It will only hurt Ohio. Some of our best and brightest will leave. The law not only affects gays, but all unmarried couples in the state including seniors living together because the would lose benefits if they married. Sad.

[mongo]

11. You can't really believe that....

Did you see Greg Palast's article on what happened in Ohio?
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/what_happened_in_ohio.php

between that, the differences between the counts and the exit polls and the long lines at minority precincts, I don't believe * won fair and square.

I don't believe he could of won Florida either.

[cmd]

12. Speaking from the Tuscarawas viewpoint

It was fair in our county. We had some chads in the absentees, but not enough to make a difference. We won the local seats we expected to win. We didn't think issue one would get the votes it got. We didn't think the republicans had the votes they had for Bush. Bush came to town and stopped at a local store. A $1.50 bag of candy can buy a lot of good will around here. We also had a National Guard unit deployed at the beginning of the war. The county supported the war because of those guys and gals. I've looked at the numbers. We lost.

[barb162]

16. do you BELIEVE the numbers??

or do you believe there was fraud. I can't understand how the exit polls could have been THAT incorrect. Please respond, I am in IL and I am mad as hell today. The more I am reading articles that there was fraud... it's like a replay of 2000, only worse.

[Eric J in MN]

20. Can you explain more about seniors and marriage? nt

nt

[Kolesar]

13. Voters went home rather than wait in the all day rain

We will never know how many stayed home. We will never know how many cut out of the line to go to work or went home, either. I was surfing DU at 2 am and Knox County was reporting that people were still voting. Clevelanders were voting at midnight.

Voting in Ohio is not designed to be accomodating.

Since we never bought mass quantities of EVMs, perhaps Ohio should skip that step and go to vote-by-mail like Oregon.

We also need a well funded public service department to send registration forms to everybody, every year.

[USA_1]

14. Ohio

Just a few days ago, some of you Buckeyes on this forum were highly confident that Kerry would win this state. One even reported that there was a 10-1 ratio in the amount of Kerry signs as opposed to Bush signs. Somehow, Bush "won".

Now I know how.

[Emops]

15. I think we should drop this and move on.

Shrub more than likely did win Ohio fairly. We need brush ourselves off and develop a strategy for 2006 and beyond, not dwell on this defeat.

I think charismatic fighters like Eric Fingerhut and Mike Coleman can really lead a Democratic resurgence in Ohio, and we need to get behind our party.

[cmd]

17. I agree

I'm dropping my * and referring to him as the president. It leaves a venomous taste in my mouth, but I must move on.

[bettyellen]

21. it's more than ohio 04, it's the USA 06 and 08. the FRAUD has got to stop!

[elepet]

25. I saw Dennis Kucinich

this morning for the first time. He really is awesome. Anyone here from his district?
someone asked whether he thought the election was "rigged". He said that his lawyers are checking the count, and if it was wrong, then Kerry's concession would be reversed. meanwhile, he didn't seem to think that this was an issue to get all mobilized about until the facts were in.

[liberal N proud]

18. Turnout like that does not vote for incumbnants

It just does not happen, and all the negative energy there was against bush during the campaign, you can't tell me that did not produce votes.
200,000 people on Nov 1 downtown Cleveland? Did they not vote.
Exit polls had kerry winning easily most of the evening.
Somthing other than Lake Erie smells in Ohio!

[lizzieforkerry]

26. Yeah, but turnout like that

does vote to bash gays. While they are there...
Don't get me wrong, I think it was stolen but they made it harder to catch because it wasn't a landslide for Kerry.

[berni_mccoy]

19. NO, * did NOT WIN FAIRLY

GO HERE: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=172x4052

We have hard evidence now.

[OhioChick]

22. Oh Yes...

It was a 'theft'. Everyone I know in various areas of the state insisted that we had a 'win'. There's no way * took OH.

[roseBudd]

23. Warren County OH counted the votes with NO oversight

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/05/loc_warrenvote05.html

Warren's vote tally walled off


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alone in Ohio, officials cited homeland security

By Erica Solvig
Enquirer staff writer


LEBANON - Citing concerns about potential terrorism, Warren County officials locked down the county administration building on election night and blocked anyone from observing the vote count as the nation awaited Ohio's returns.

County officials say they took the action Tuesday night for homeland security, although state elections officials said they didn't know of any other Ohio county that closed off its elections board. Media organizations protested, saying it violated the law and the public's rights. The Warren results, delayed for hours because of long lines that extended voting past the scheduled close of polls, were part of the last tallies that helped clinch President Bush's re-election.

"The media should have been permitted into the area where there was counting," Enquirer attorney Jack Greiner said. "This is a process that should be done in complete transparency and it wasn't."

Warren County Emergency Services Director Frank Young said he had recommended increased security based on information received from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau of Investigation in recent weeks. Commissioners made the security decisions in a closed-door meeting last week, but didn't publicize the restrictions that were made until after polls closed.

Add to that anomaly a precinct in suburban Columbus recorded over 4000 more votes for * than actual voters.

a little here, a little there

add up the provisonal ballots minorities were forced to use when their right to vote was challenged...

[Philostopher]

24. To be fair, my description would be...

'Stole it fair and square.'

Voter suppression and flat-out frightening African Americans in inner city precincts, then providing inadequate voting machines for the ones who did go to vote, kept the Democratic vote down.

They put that "gay hate" amendment on the ballot, too, to roust the homophobes. That reduced the margin even more. I had hoped -- wrongly -- that some Republicans would get wise to the fact that most of the GOP leadership in Ohio didn't like the amendment and wanted people to vote 'no' on it, but I was wrong.

I think the threats to the most vulnerable communities -- new voters and people who don't vote regularly -- kept the turnout down, and the cold rain that set in around five o'clock kept the turnout down. They held things down just enough among potential Kerry voters that their own efforts brought in enough to 'steal it fair and square.'

And by that, I mean that a vote not cast is a vote you don't have to counter.

They knew what they were doing, and it was ethically reprehensible and racist, but it was all perfectly legal. I don't like the gaming in Warren County, but Warren County has always been a heavily Republican part of the state. It stinks, but after a lot of thought, I think what I'm smelling is ethical rot, not outright stolen votes.

[shraby]

27. Intimidating voters is not legal.