How Does Austin Compare To Phoenix As A Place To Live?

[ihavenobias]

My GF and I are looking to move to a warmer place within the next 1.5-3 years or so, and our primary motivation is weather. We just can't handle the brutal Chicago winters anymore (this last one was the 4th cloudiest and snowiest on record), and the cold and lack of sun has been too much for many years.

I've done a lot of reading and a little talking to people in both cities, and they both have pros and cons. Politically speaking, it seems that Austin is more progressive and eco friendly, which I love.

Weather wise, they both have brutal summers both honestly, I would think the dry AZ summer would be better than the sticky, humid Austin summer that also involves mosquitoes (how do people deal with them? We have them here but with more water there, it's gotta be much worse) and flash floods. I mean, I would more nights in AZ would be tolerable after sunset compared to humid nights. But I realize in either case most people probably go from air conditioned house to air conditioned car to (fill in the blank air conditioned place). And yes, I'd welcome that compared to having to spend 10 minutes bundling up to go outside in the cold and shoveling snow and ice off the car and driving on the icy roads!

I believe Austin has lower crime rates than Phoenix (keep in mind I'm referring to Phoenix area, not specifically IN the city of Phoenix), and there also seems to be a LOT more to do in Austin. Tons of arts, culture, festivals, music, food and on and on. Coming from Chicago those things are important to me.

We also enjoy nature and animals quite a bit, and it seems like Austin would offer more of those opportunities (although I know AZ has mountains and other beautiful things).

Finally, the cost of living in both cities is a solid amount lower than Chicago, particularly housing which is a huge plus for us.

I appreciate any and all feedback on this topic. I didn't cover everything (employment etc., but we've looked into that as well obviously), but feel free to add anything you think I might want to know. And keep in mind that I KNOW there is no perfect place to live, and that individual preferences vary. I'd just like some opinions.

Thanks :)

[ceile]

1. Austin humid?

Try living through Houston summers, then come and tell me Austin is humid. Yes, the summers are brutal in Central TX, but that's what all the swimming holes, rivers and lakes are for. I've never been to Phoenix so I'm a bit biased in favor of my adopted home town. I suppose Austin is considered a "big city", but it still has a small city feel.

[ihavenobias]

2. That's what I like about Chicago

It's the 3rd largest city but has many parts with a small town feel. How about the mosquitoes? Do people bathe in DeepWoods OFF, or do they just wear a beekeeper's suit? ;)

And you think the flash flooding is no big deal? I've heard it's only an issue for "Yankees" (which would be me).

[tanyev]

4. If you can survive a Chicago winter, then you should have no fear of

occasional flash flooding events. :) If it really bothers you, keep it in mind when you are looking for a place to live and stay away from creeks and low areas. Serious road flooding is not common in the city proper, especially in the newer areas. Chronic problem areas are usually well marked. I don't know about Phoenix, but I've heard Tucson has flooding problems during heavy rains--although admittedly they don't get as many heavy rains.

I loved living in the Austin area and would go back there in a flash if I had the opportunity. I've never had much problems with hot weather or mosquitoes, but I will admit I'm not much of an outdoor person.

[ihavenobias]

6. How about the people?

How would you describe the people of Austin? I know I'm asking you to generalize here, but why not!

Friendly and easy to meet? I would think so but I don't know.

PS---This is encouraging: http://austin.about.com/od/relocation/a/bestliving.htm?p=1

[tanyev]

9. The people are the best!

There is a very unique vibe about Austin that I've never found anywhere else. I'm sure someone who lives there now will show up on this thread and can tell you more. My memories are of going to school there in the 80s, and I know a lot has changed since then. I think the presence of the University has a lot to do with the eclectic diversity of the town. You can go out to a favorite hangout and spend an evening with yuppies, old hippies, new hippies, impassioned liberals, and good-ole-boy politicians and somehow everybody gets along. I loved the annual Eeyore's Birthday Party celebration.

Check out the Keep Austin Weird website:
http://www.keepaustinweird.com/home.html

[ihavenobias]

19. I just came home with a book all about Austin (? about dogs)

I really appreciate the info, from everyone!

My GF is a vegetarian, so I was happy to see there seem to be a good number of vegetarian places there. I was also wondering how dog friendly Austin is...what do you think?

PS---Unrelated to Austin: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5608983&mesg_id=5608983

[Longhorn]

20. Very dog friendly!

The city council passed a law a year or so ago that allows restaurants to allow dogs on their outdoor patios without violating the health code. They also recently passed a law that bans tying dogs out unsupervised.

There are free bags along the Town Lake hike n' bike trail so that people can clean up after their dogs and water spouts close to the ground so they can get a drink. People seem to bring their dogs with them everywhere! When we go to the drive-through at the bank with a dog, the teller always sends out a dog biscuit. My daughter takes her dog to the dog park all the time. We have five dogs but we live out in the country (not in Austin or Travis County) and we tend to keep them home. They get plenty of exercise chasing the squirrels and the deer. :)

[ihavenobias]

22. That's great, and it reminds me

I know you don't live directly in Austin, but do you know what type of animals one can expect to see as a resident? I know about the bats, but what types of things are in a typical backyard? Here we have a lot of birds, squirrels and rabbits (more animals in the forest preserves, but I'm talking backyards in the suburbs). Technically I'm no longer in Chicago, I moved from there to a suburb about 45 minutes away a year ago, so I see more animals.

Of course I should take the good with the bad, so how are the bugs out there? I'm (unfortunately) expecting to hear that there are some crazy bugs seeing as how it's so hot and humid.

PS---What kind of dogs do you have? That's a lot of dogs!

[Longhorn]

24. I don't live in the city now but I lived there for 23 years before we moved out here.

My husband is a remodeling contractor with projects all over Austin and two of our daughters live there with their husbands. And we're only 15 minutes outside the city limits.

So now that you know my credentials, ;) in the city you'll find birds and squirrels and, yes, occasionally a bat, but not too much wildlife. We had possums in our backyard when we lived a few blocks from the lake. We also had nutria (yuck) -- which are like tailless rats. I understand that there are some places on the west side where they're having trouble with coyotes killing their cats and small dogs. These are neighborhoods that back up to essentially wilderness areas.

When we lived in the city, roaches, fleas and ants were occasional pests but we haven't had a problem with any bugs since we moved out. I don't remember mosquitoes being much of a problem in Austin or here. Of course, the city sprays for them, I think. The birds can be a real hassle in some parts of the city. The grackles will fill the trees and make a racket and poop all over the place. The University and state are always trying to find ways to get them to move on. But the grackles and bats really help with the bug population. The deer are plentiful once you get outside of the city and will occasionally wander into an outlying neighborhood. There were two in my yard tonight as I got home. We also have roadrunners, rabbits, armadillos, and hawks or turkey buzzards. Out on Lake Buchanan, northwest of Austin, there are bald eagles that nest during the winter.

We've seen a lot of changes in all the years we've lived here but we still love it. If I had to live in another city in Texas, it would be San Antonio, just 75 minutes south. In fact, we go down there often to visit our favorite Dixieland band at The Landing on the Riverwalk.

We have a Rhodesian Ridgeback, white lab mix, black lab mix, German Shepherd/lab mix, and poodle mix. They are 18 to 110 pounds and 2.5 to 11 years old. One was adopted from a friend's litter and the rest had been abandoned or rescued.

Here's the crew:

[ihavenobias]

26. Wow

What a range of dogs! Very cute, especially the Rhodesian which you don't see as often (well, maybe out there, but not here).

Those animals sound great, although you said the "R" word which terrifies me (roach). I had a bad apartment in the city one year and it was a miserable experience. But I'm assuming/hoping that like in Chicago, it's really not an issue in most places.

Honestly, I don't think we'll mind the "nutria". I would much rather see one of those (or an actual rat) than a roach (and yes, I've seen both). Something about roaches gives me a visceral reaction...they just repulse me in a unique way. Same thing with what those special centipedes that have human-like hairs. I've seen them twice in my life and that was more than enough. I know, I know, rats and snakes are more dangerous, but I'm not disgusted by them in that way, strangely enough.

I just looked up the air quality in Phoenix and Austin, and it's not contest. Austin has MUCH cleaner air. I figured as much, but the difference was still startling. Although I was also surprised Austin didn't have more sunny days. Granted, there's more sun than here (not saying much) but I guess I expected even more: http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/weatherfacts/numbersunny_city_desc.php

[crispini]

40. Oh, lord, if you don't like roaches,

we have PALMETTO BUGS down here, which is a nice word for GIANT FLYING ROACH -- I kid you not.

I just have a good organic pesticide service that comes quarterly and I haven't had a problem, but these things? are Teh Horror.

[ihavenobias]

41. Come on Crispini, who DOES like roaches?! :)

This made me feel slightly better, from Wikipedia "Due to their large size and slow development, large infestations of these insects are not common within houses".

Do you seem them that frequently? Like every time you go for a jog you see some birds cheaping and a few of those flying monsters?

PS---How about scorpions?

[crispini]

42. No scorpions, at least not up near me (I'm in Dallas)

And I can tolerate the little roaches you can smack with a shoe, but these large flying ones give me the sheer creeping horrors. I mean, they FLY!!! :scared: One of those gets in my house, there's a lot of screaming that goes along with the shoe whacking. I have been known to call a neighbor.

I saw them a lot more often before I got the exterminator. Old house, they live outside and come up through the foundation and into the walls and come out for a visit. They are NOT afraid of people in the least. I'd see them in my house almost every week during the spring, summer, and fall. That lasted for about four months and then I got the wonderful organic bug man. All the exterminator does is put boric acid around the foundation, and a few other traps, which one could do oneself, except for the fact that the horrible things live down there and who wants to go near there! Not me!

Speaking of foundations, I don't know if they have this problem in Austin, but up here in the Dallas area, if you buy a house with a slab foundation, you have to water it during the summer. Yes, water your foundation to keep it from cracking. I actually bought an older home with a pier and beam foundation and I'd recommend buying that if you can. If you need to get under there and fix something, you can. Not so with slab-- if you have a problem there, you have to jack up the whole house, which can set you back quite a pretty penny. I actually bought a house with a pre-existing foundation problem because I knew it could be fixed -- the house had been on the market a while because of it (people are scared about foundation problems) but I got a good foundation engineer and a good company to fix it. Seller and I split the cost of the repair and it hasn't moved since. :)

[ihavenobias]

43. (Sigh) Yeah, the flying part makes it that much worse

My worst experience was that one bad apartment in Chicago maybe 4 years ago. It was awful (factor in unresponsive landlord), I'll just leave it at that.

And I think I mentioned this before, but the second worst bug I've seen in my life is like a centipede except that is has long, fine human hairs. It's really disgusting, and really, really fast. Luckily I've only seen two.

Oh and thanks for the tip on the foundation. We'll probably be looking at new homes (I'm shocked at how inexpensive new homes are down there, although per another recommendation I mostly looked in Buda and Kyle).

[crispini]

44. I'd shoot a PM to johncoby2 in this forum

He's president of Homeowners Against Deficient Dwellings and will be able to give you the scoop on buying new homes in Texas. I would be very, very careful. There are a lot of disreputable builders around here and they have been pushing changes through the Texas Legislature to make it very difficult for homeowners who have complaints with their builder. For example, requiring arbitration instead of lawsuits, etc. I personally would not buy a new home in Texas because of the shoddy corporate cheap builders. You might be able to find a good builder, but I personally would favor a well-build older home and strategic renovation, over a cookie cutter new house. You wouldn't believe the horror stories I've heard from some people about their builders.

[ihavenobias]

45. I appreciate the suggestion

We'll have to keep that in mind, as we won't be moving for another 1.5-2 years, give or take. My GF has to finish dental hygiene school first, and we have to sell the condo.

And obviously we need to visit there before we really even make that decision!

[sonias]

50. What a beautiful picture, Longhorn

You have a big heart to take in so many four legged friends!

:bounce::bounce::bounce:

Sonia

[ihavenobias]

51. You're right on both counts n/t

[Longhorn]

52. Thanks, Sonia!

By the way, I've had some good news -- after one round of chemo, the cancer is not showing up on my latest chest x-ray. It is also continuing to shrink at the primary site. :D I have the second round this week and will hope it continues to work. :hi:

[sonias]

53. Good news indeed

You keep fighting that damn cancer. Keep your heart strong and your will to live even stronger. You can kick this thing. Good luck with your chemo round this week. I'm sending you my strongest get well vibes I can over the net to you!

:hug::loveya:

Sonia

[ihavenobias]

54. Wow

I hope you continue to improve!

[Longhorn]

55. Thanks!

That's definitely the plan! :hi:

[ceile]

13. OFF is definitely your friend down here.

But the mosquitoes aren't too bad. A quick spray if you're doing anything outside in the late afternoon hours (or near water) and you're fine. Flash flooding is not a major issue in Austin proper. The outlying areas are well marked w/ flood gages and low crossing signs. Most of the flooding happens to the south (San Antonio) and the west (Marble Falls, Burnet) and in smaller towns (Dripping Springs, Wimberley). But you should come down for a week or so in June or July to really get a feel for Austin and the weather.

[Longhorn]

12. You know, I hear this from my Houston-area family all the time.

So I decided to keep track of the daily heat index, which takes into account temperature and humidity, for several months during the summer. Yes, Houston consistently had higher humidity but Austin had consistently higher temperatures, so that overall, Austin's heat index each day was the same or higher than Houston's.

So Houstonians can still brag about higher humidity but we're still more miserable in Austin. ;)

[ceile]

15. That is true.

I do prefer summers in Houston despite the humidity. Austin is just too damn hot sometimes. Although I did spend a summer in San Antonio and I thought I was going to die! Definitely the worst place for heat.

[Longhorn]

17. I only lived in the Houston area (Spring) about two years

before I came to Austin to go to UT and stayed. I was a lifeguard and I remember that we could count on a brief thunderstorm rolling in nearly every day. It would cool things off just a bit and empty the pool so as lifeguards, we loved it! :D

In Austin, we tend to get rain in bunches and then not at all for weeks or even months at a time. It has NEVER rained here so much that I got tired of it because even when it lasted three weeks, I knew that once it ended, that would be it for a long time. :)

What part of Houston do you call home? :hi:

[ceile]

18. Well, I grew up in West Houston.

Spring Branch area, then we moved to Montrose when I was 16. My mom and brother still live there-great part of town. Now, I call south Austin home. Anything past 12th street is "north" to me. :hi:

[Longhorn]

21. My husband went to Crockett and I teach at the ACC South Austin campus

across the street from Crockett. We lived on Fair Oaks and St. Albans early in our marriage so South Austin will always feel like home to us. Later, we lived in the William Cannon/Beckett Road area. We also lived on 10th Street across from O. Henry Middle School but now we're out in Dripping Springs for 12 years. Lots of South Austin people out here, too, including several people that went to school with my husband. We've considered downsizing and moving back to South Austin but the houses there cost as much or more than we owe on this house! :)

[ihavenobias]

23. Housing/Cost Of Living

It sounds like the housing bust hasn't hit Austin much? It's all relative obviously, but according to the cost of living calculators, Austin housing is MUCH less expensive than Chicago housing (33% less on average according to one estimate I saw).

We aren't planning on having any kids (for many reasons) so we obviously won't need more than a 2BR (with an office or some other small extra room), or maybe a 3BR, 2BA tops. And of course a yard for a dog to run around in. I haven't looked much, but housing seemed to be pretty reasonable. Again though, housing around here is pretty pricey so my context is different.

[Longhorn]

25. There are some great neighborhoods where you can find lots of houses for under $200,000.

Some of them are close in enough that you might not have to drive as much. We have a bus system but no other mass transit. The buses can be great if the route fits your needs but can take forever if you need to transfer.

When you're closer to making a decision, let us know what kind of neighborhood interests you and I'm sure you'll get lots of good information on where to look. I was checking out the 78745 and 78751 zip codes (the first is south and the second is north.) The homes are older (1940s,) smaller, and more expensive in 78751. One daughter lives there and they bought at just the right time. They've already remodeled once and are doing an addition this summer. A 900-square foot house in their neighborhood starts at $170,000! People are tearing down houses and building bigger ones, though the lots up there aren't big enough for McMansions, thank goodness! In 78745, $170,000 will buy a newer (1960s or 70s) and larger (1200 to 2000 square feet) home. The 78751 area is not too far from the University and more of a neighborhood for singles and couples. The 78745 neighborhood would have more families.

One of the coolest parts of the city is the 78704 area just south of the river. However, this area is getting very expensive. My husband does high-end remodeling and used to work almost exclusively in West Austin (78703) but a lot of the money is moving to these close-in south neighborhoods. I didn't even look because we definitely wouldn't be downsizing our mortgage to move there!

Good luck! :hi:

[Lithos]

27. Good summary :)

Each neighborhood and suburb in Austin not only has its own price tag, but also its own style and pace of living. It all really depends on what type of lifestyle you want to immerse yourself in.

Back to the OP's question. My own thought about Austin is that there is so much to do in Austin that you could literally wear yourself out on something each day of the week and not repeat yourself. Also, Austin is the type of place where stereotypes are broken, often on purpose. After awhile, you just learn to let people live or you go crazy (or both?).

L-

[Dora]

3. I lived in Phoenix metro until 1997, then moved to Austin.

The housing market is generally strong in Austin, whereas in Phoenix it's dropping in areas. I think Austin has better parks and public recreation than Phoenix, but the geography of Arizona is really tough to beat.

30 year old houses in our subdivision are listing for $140K-$190K - three bedrooms, two-car garages, 1200-1800 square feet on large lots. The next subdivision over is listing for $115K-$150K, newer houses, smaller lots, cheaper construction. The housing market varies WIDELY in Austin - from neighborhood to neighborhood. $450K might get you a two-bed bungalow in Hyde Park next to UT Austin, or a McMansion in Round Rock.

Employment opportunitites may be tough in either city.

Summer nights in Phoenix are still 105 degrees. In Austin it does cool down at night in the summer. Summer is shorter in Austin, and all four seasons do have a noticeable presence here - not so in Phoenix, where the weather shifts from Hot as Hades, to Not As Hot, to Ahhh Isn't This Nice, to Not as Hot, and back to Hot as Hades again.

I love the humidity here, and so does my skin. The air is cleaner here, and I think the tapwater quality is much, much better.

I couldn't move back to Phoenix unless I absolutely HAD to do it. I fell in love with the Hill Country, the lakes and rivers, the trees and flowers, and the relaxed atmosphere of Austin the first time I visited. I cannot stand the needless intensity and neo-Midwesternism of Phoenix.

[ihavenobias]

5. That reminds me

Thanks for the info.

We're not having any kids (as in, ever), so we don't need a huge place. 2BR and maybe an office is more than enough.

As for employment, I have a good amount of non-profit experience and there are a lot of non-profits out there, and my GF will be a dental hygienist at that point and those are in demand all over the place!

You reminded me, I'm not aware that either of us has any common allergies (to things like pollen and ragweed, etc.), but I guess we'll have to visit to really find out. I've read Austin is the 4th worst place to live if you have allergies.

Also, I've read/heard that drivers are really aggressive and accidents are common in Phoenix, which is a concern. And of course, the crime rate thing.

[Dora]

7. Day to day quality of life in Austin beats Phoenix, hands down.

I didn't have allergies in Phoenix, nothing noticeable. I lived allergy-free in Austin for two years and then I came down with cedar fever.

Consider yourself warned, if you move to Austin, you will eventually develop seasonal allergies. The reason nobody suffers from allergies in Phoenix is because the place is little more than an irrigated mirage in the middle of the Sonoran desert. There just isn't enough vegetation in Phoenix to trigger allergies like people have in Austin.

[ihavenobias]

8. Well, I take claritin already every day anyway

because I have a rare skin condition called dermatographism. So who knows, I might not even notice, although I am congested a lot (could be food allergies, need to see an allergist out here), even in winter with everything dead.

[Longhorn]

10. I've lived in Austin for 35 years and I don't have season allergies.

I'm allergic to cats and that's it. My daughter, who was born here in 1979, was miserable from allergies and now lives in Denver where she rarely suffers. Most people get occasional allergies. Few people suffer all the time and some of us never do. We do have many good allergy doctors. :)

[Dora]

11. And you BOAST about it!

:)

[Longhorn]

14. No, actually, I'm quite empathetic.

My daughter is so miserable when she's suffering that I can't bring myself to boast. And my father-in-law, who lives in Georgetown, really suffers from cedar fever in December/January.

I love cats and can't have any. :( But at least I can avoid cats and y'all can't avoid the air! Sorry! :hug:

[Longhorn]

16. You know, if I made a list of all the things I don't like about Central Texas,

and it would be a short list, I don't think it would have occurred to me to mention mosquitoes. I've gone whole summers without ever getting bit and we have a pool and hot tub so we do spend time outdoors. One summer, I rode my bike to work every day and they weren't an issue. It seems to me that they were much worse when I grew up in Indiana or visited friends in South Dakota, plus we don't have those biting flies that you find in other places.

However, we do have fire ants and scorpions -- the latter out in the country more than in town. I've only been bit by a scorpion twice in the 37 years I've lived in Texas and it wasn't that bad. You learn to watch for fire ants and they don't come into the house.

Frankly, I grew up in Indiana and Michigan and I get tired of the heat and miss the snow. But I was only 16 when we moved here so I never had to deal with it as an adult. I suspect it will be a long time before you miss it and when you do, that's what Colorado is for. :) The best way to deal with the heat is to get out in it on a daily basis. When I was riding my bike, I found that I learned to tolerate it much more than when I dashed from one air-conditioned space to another. My husband is a remodeling contractor and since he's out in the weather all the time, he seems much less affected by it. I have a convertible Mustang and I tend to drive with the top down nearly year-round with the heater on in the winter and the AC on in the summer. :D

We've been having a lovely spring -- high temps in the 70s and 80s and cooler-than-normal nights for this time of year. I think we've only had one 90-degree day and we're almost to May! Yippee!

[KatyMan]

28. Have you thought about Houston?

It might not have the ambiance of Austin (or even of Chicago), but salaries are good and the cost of living is dirt cheap. And yes, the summers are bad, and mosquitos are bad, but, as you said, you go from a/c in the house, to the a/c in the car, to the a/c at work. One downside is that it's a very sprawling place, and you might drive 40 miles to work. We're planning on moving back to Houston (well, Katy on the west side) in the next few months, the prices for everything in the UK are very high, and salaries don't compete.
Take a quick glance at the houses available at www.har.com, both for sale and for rent.
Just a thought from a longtime soon to be no longer ex-Houstonian OK, for real, I grew up and lived in the suburbs, Spring, Tomball, Katy...still nice places to live. And it's a pretty liberal place.

ETA: It's not a nice place to visit, but you'd really consider living there :)

[ihavenobias]

29. I've actually been there as I have some family close by

Austin seems much more my style. Less humid and mosquitoes plus a lot more to do with less sprawl is what I want.

Plus, I'm so used to relatively expensive housing and cost of living being in Chicago (and we looked at San Diego and other CA places...talk about insanely expensive) that Austin is significantly cheaper. It's more important for me to pay a little more to have access to to the arts, culture, nightlife, etc.

And of course, having a more eccentric/progressive mix of people is something I value, which is why Phoenix is less and less appealing (not to say they aren't some awesome people there, of course there are and I have some friend out there too!).

[KatyMan]

30. Fair enough

I've only been to Austin a couple of times, but I can see the attraction, certainly landscape-wise. And, it is much more eccentric. Whatever you do, good luck to you! Texas is a great place, not at all like it's portrayed on the DU and other places, lots of friendly people, great food...we can't wait to get back!

[ihavenobias]

33. One of the cons IMO

is that Austin isn't very close to other fun cities, like San Diego and Las Vegas. Phoenix has a huge edge in that area, being about 6-7 hours away by car. Not that those things outweigh the many other pluses(sp).

I see there's no major zoo in Austin (there is a small zoo/animal sanctuary), and the next closest is in San Antonio which isn't super close. And it seems like large amusement parks are even further away...Six Flags in Arlington?

I'm getting into the weeds here, but why not, it's interesting!

[Longhorn]

34. San Antonio is just over an hour away from Austin

depending on what part of town you live in. It has a great zoo, plus Six Flags Fiesta Texas and Sea World. Then there's the Riverwalk, the Alamo, the Mercado, Brackenridge Park, and lots of great festivals and parades.

There's a great water park, Schlitterbahn, in New Braunfels about 45 minutes from Austin. They have one down on S. Padre Island, too, which is another great weekend trip (about seven hours by car but the best beach in Texas.) There are also a couple of drive-through/petting zoos within an hour of Austin both north and south. And there are several great caves (the kind you walk through on a tour, not crawl through with a flashlight, though there are bunches of those, too.) Oh, there's a small water park on Lake Travis, maybe half an hour from Austin.

DFW is about four hours away with lots of great things to do. Houston is about three hours away and also has a great zoo, Hermann Park, planetarium, and another hour to Galveston, which is a great destination in itself.

My point is that there are all kinds of great day trips or weekend trips to be made from Austin and I haven't begun to mention them all (Big Bend and Guadalupe Mountains to the west, Piney Woods to the east, the Space Center near Houston.) We also have direct flights to Las Vegas, Denver, and San Jose, to name a few cities. Flights that aren't direct generally connect through Dallas (American) or Houston (Continental.) I know lots of people who go to Las Vegas for the weekend. Our daughter lives in Denver and we go there often -- we can by there before 9 a.m. Saturday and return late Sunday night -- it's just over a two-hour flight on Frontier Airlines. I've done a long weekend in the LA area before, too.

It's true that it takes a good day to drive out of Texas from Austin but there are plenty of great places to drive to. That's part of the beauty of living in Central Texas. I've never lived in Phoenix so I'm not trying to compare but I don't want you to get the wrong idea about how far Austin is from other fun places. :hi:

[ihavenobias]

35. Oh

I didn't realize some of those things were in SA (like the Six Flags/Sea World). That's great.

And trust me, I know there are lots of great things to do around Austin, that's a big part of the appeal for us! I just meant in so far as other travel destinations by car. Then again with gas prices...

I looked up flight prices and found that it costs about the same to fly from TX to San Diego/Vegas (some future in-laws will likely be moving to NV) as it does to fly from Chicago to those places, which also isn't cheap with rising fuel costs.

PS---Again, I REALLY appreciate all the info. Everyone I've asked from that area (at DU and elsewhere) has been incredibly friendly. Well, except for the DUer in this thread who suggested it was too crowded in Austin to accept two more people. ;)

[NoPasaran]

31. The trouble with Austin: we're full

You can't move here unless you get two people to leave town.

I know it sucks, but those are the rules.

[ihavenobias]

32. Compromise

I know, I know, everyone is scared of outsiders and congestion, so here's my compromise:

I won't be having any kids. Not now, *not ever*.

How many people can claim the same? That means the road ends with us, and not generation after generation of new people (who will also multiply and overpopulate).

Agreed? Ok good, I'm glad that's settled. :)

[GOPisEvil]

36. You know, there are probably two Republicans in town. We can ask them to leave.

I mean, I think there's two...

[Lithos]

47. Kinky and Carole 7 Names

Are still here.

Wouldn't that count?

[ihavenobias]

37. How accurate is Austin's Wikipedia entry? (traffic/conservative burbs West & North)

There are many interesting things in it, like this for example (BTW, aren't the western burbs more expensive anyway? Yet another reason to avoid them):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin,_Texas

The controversy that dominated Austin politics during the 1990s was the conflict between environmentalists, strong in the city center, and advocates of urban growth, who tend to live in the outlying areas. The city council has in the past tried to mitigate the controversy by advocating smart growth, but growth and environmental protection are still the most divisive issues in city politics. Today conservatives in Austin argue that the city's various highway traffic problems are rooted in the denial of past highway/infrastructure development by political action committees who do not support highway expansion. Environmentalists counter that their efforts contributed to the city's large green spaces, which many Austinites enjoy. Progressives also maintain that unlike several other cities in Texas, Austin's smart growth policies have contributed to a rapidly-increasing population density in and around the downtown area.

And this:

Austin is well known as a center for liberal politics in a generally conservative state. Suburban neighborhoods in Austin, especially to the west and north, and several satellite municipalities, however, tend toward political conservatism.

[GOPisEvil]

38. I think that's fairly true overall.

However, I think the suburbs are starting to turn more Democratic. I think people are leaving Austin due to high real estate prices in the city and they are heading to the 'burbs. As that increases, I think we'll see a balance politically out there.

[ihavenobias]

39. What are the houses like in the city?

I know before I moved to Chicago, I thought it was all a bunch of giant buildings (i.e. everyone lived in the Sears Tower). Ok not exactly, but pretty close, and it's a common misconception.

While it's true that downtown Chicago is like that (office buildings, condos, etc.), there are many parts of the city with homes and backyards, tree lined streets, etc. Granted, the ones in the areas I'd have liked to own in (as opposed to renting) were far too expensive, i.e. $400k on the *low* end.

[GOPisEvil]

46. Hmm...you have many choices

It depends on what you want. There are lots of condos downtown in sort-of high-rises. There are condos and townhomes further out. You can get homes build in just about any decade. As for my neighborhood, it's fairly suburban with houses built in the 1980s. It's in north Austin. I paid $95k 4 years ago for a 2BR/2 bath house about 1100 sq. ft. Right now, it's probably worth $110k on the market. If you can spend $175,000+ you can get a pretty nice house on a decent sized lot. Obviously, the closer into downtown, the price goes up and the houses get smaller, but the neighborhoods are more cool. You can get into $250k-$400k depending on size and cool factor of the 'hood.

I think coming from Chicago, you will find that you get more for your money down here.

[BlueCollar]

48. I've lived and worked in Phoenix

and visit Austin frequently.

Arizona is beautiful state and has much to offer, but if I had a choice I'd choose Austin.

Why?

Because when it's all said and done, I think Texans around are generally more likely to repudiate reactionary right-wing politics than residents of Phoenix.

Phoenix tends to be more open to racism,right-wing politics. Austin residents are on the record opposing that type of behaviour.

Traffic sucks in both cities.

Weather sucks in TX and AZ. Tornadoes/Heat wves...etc.

All things being equal, if you want to live near progressives...move to Austin.

[ihavenobias]

49. Hmm

I can't say that was the most ringing endorsement I've ever heard but I appreciate you weighing in. :)

As for bad weather and traffic, it's all relative. I doubt that Austin traffic is any worse than Chicago traffic. And while I realize there are flash floods (tornadoes are pretty rare *in* Austin itself from what I understand), I'll take my chances considering we have snowstorms (and plenty of rain) here.

I know the summers are brutal in AZ and TX, but the winters are brutal here, and the some of the summer here is also very humid. The difference is I'd prefer to not have to wake up early in the freezing darkness to go shovel a car/driveway out, hope the doors not frozen shut (and or that the battery won't die) and figure out how to defrost/defog the windows in time to not be late for work. For anyone who's lived through those kind of winters, they know exactly what I mean.

And yes, the icy roads aren't too safe either.

Plus the crime rates are better in Austin, and the air is significantly better than the air in Phoenix. I read that only 22% of days in Phoenix are rated as high air quality days compared to 76% for Austin. Pretty amazing if you ask me.

PS---Another point on living in places that are either really hot or really cold that doesn't get made enough:

Here in winter, you don't want to go out during the day because it's cold, dark and windy, if not icy and snowy. It's worse in the morning and at night because the sun is not fully up or is fully down.

By contrast, it's actually cooler in the mornings and evenings in the hot places, meaning it might actually be bearable to do something at those times. Either way you run from temperature controlled house or business to temperature controlled car back to a temperature controlled house or business, but again, the mornings/nights break the tie. Not to mention the fact that Austin and Phoenix have more sun, which does wonders for the mood even if it is too damn hot.