Texas Senate OKs guns in college dorms, classrooms

[babylonsister]

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/05/19/texas-senate-oks-guns-in-college-dorms-classrooms/

Texas Senate OKs guns in college dorms, classrooms
@ 3:10 pm by Jeremy P. Jacobs


If all the secession hoopla wasn't enough, this ought to get people talking: the Texas state Senate voted Tuesday to allow license holders to carry concealed firearms in college classrooms and dorms.

The Associated Press reports that the Senate passed the measure by a 20 to 10 vote. It still needs to pass through a final Senate vote, which could occur as early as Wednesday, and then must pass through the state House.

Proponents of the legislation say it would help students avert another on campus massacre like the 2007 shootings at Virginia Tech.

Opponents say that giving students access to guns on campus would increase the likelihood of shootings.

Currently, guns are not allowed on Texas college campuses.

[MasonJar]

1. If parents have one iota of sense, that should close down the colleges

in Texas by summer school.

[TX Screwball]

2. Don't you have to be 21 ...

...to get a concealed firearm license? Are most college students under 21?

Anyway, guns on college campuses is a bad idea and will not avert another massacre. If anything it will increase the possibility.

[sonias]

3. That's my nut-ball Senator who authored the bill

AAS 5/19/09
Guns-on-campus bill? Aye

A controversial bill that would allow college and university students with state handgun licenses to carry weapons in dorms and classrooms was tentatively approved by the Texas Senate this afternoon on a 20-10 vote.

The measure was four votes short for final approval today. When that occurs, it will need 21 votes — and then it faces an uncertain fate in the House, which last week killed a similar proposal on a technicality.

"There have been predictions that there would be Old West-style shootouts at the corner, blood in the streets, if concealed weapons were allowed on campuses," said state Sen. Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio, the bill’s author.

"That has simply not been borne out … I am interested in the safety of all college students."

Right now it doesn't have 21 votes so it may still die. Not to mention it would need to get through the House.

Sonia

[onestepforward]

4. I hope this bill doesn't get the 21 votes.

Horrible idea. These college kids don't have police training. There has to be better solutions than this.

[WolverineDG]

6. 18 -19 year olds, booze, & guns are not a good mix nt

[Jack_DeLeon]

10. You have to be 21 for a CHL.

n/t

[WolverineDG]

12. You have to be 21 to drink too

doesn't stop 'em.

dg

[Jack_DeLeon]

14. stupid comparison...

You cannot get a concealed handgun license in Texas if you are under the age of 21.

Sure you can own guns, even handguns, under the age of 21, and yes its possible for people to illegally conceal carry a handgun under the age of 21, but that could happen regardless of if this law passes or not.

The only people this law effects are those over 21, who have concealed handgun licenses. These people can already carry pretty much everywhere else, they arent "murdering" innocent people anywhere else, so I dont see why it would all of a sudden become an issue in colleges.

I can already legally carry a handgun and leave it in my car in a parking lot on a college campus, I'm not going to magically become a murderer if I take it into a school room.

[WolverineDG]

18. You are presuming that you & others will always be in control of your weapons

and you won't be.

I'm not anti-gun, I'm anti-stupid-gun-nut-laws that are based on the theory that the best solution to a Virginia Tech shooting is to have more guns available, instead of getting to the root of the problem and focusing on eliminating that.

dg

[Jack_DeLeon]

19. I wont be? Who will then?

IMO the safest place for my carry handgun is generally in my holster sitting inside my waistband?

I generally carry almost everywhere except where prohibited by law. When I go to classes, if its not legal for me to carry I then have look around, to make sure no one is watching me, then I remove my handgun from my holster, and then lock it up in my car. At that point my handgun is far less secure than if I were carrying it.

[Baby Snooks]

5. Appalling

What would have averted what happened at Virginia Tech would have been the university taking a stalking situation more seriously.

But then stalking is so dull. Mass murderers and astronaut love triangles make for better headlines.

Most universities do not take stalking seriously. As we saw again recently at Wellesley. The victim just assumed he went away. But didn't.

She should have filed charges when the stalking began at another campus but no doubt the campus police told her to just ignore him and he would go away. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't.

The sad reality of our campuses is that metal detectors rather than guns is the only solution to the increasing violence.

[Jack_DeLeon]

11. So a metal detector at every door?

is the only solution? :eyes:

So I guess if someone wanted to commit murder in your vision of the future, they would just wait outside, since they know that whoever is inside wont have the means to protect themselves.

[Baby Snooks]

15. It would have saved Rachel Pendray...

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2006_4241959

According to the university she wasn't being stalked. It was just one of those "obsession-type things" which unfortunately is being seen more and more on campuses around the country.

And we all know in Texas the solution to everything is to just pull a gun. So the solution to this growing problem is for all the cowboys and cowgirls to arm themselves and pull out their guns and start firing every time it happens.

In this case, and many others, the victim would have already been dead. But a metal detector would have saved her. If this becomes law, a metal detector wouldn't. He would be allowed to be carrying a gun into a dormitory. No one would question it. Until he started shooting.

And then of course all the cowboys and cowgirls would pull their guns and start shooting. But who would they shoot? Everyone would be standing there pointing a gun at everyone else.

We are living in a violent society. Inviting more violence is not the solution. And this bill is inviting more violence. Particularly on our campuses.

[Jack_DeLeon]

17. Metal detectors are not a practical solution...

Who is going to pay for metal detectors in every building entrance? Who is going to pay for the people manning the metal detectors to screen everyone who beeps which will be pretty much everyone as almost everyone carries metal on them. All this just in an attempt to make people inside buildings marginally more secure, as these measures do nothing to protect people outside, and frankly if an armed gunman wanted to get into a building they could still do so albeit some machine will beep at them for doing it.

It was illegal for this guy to take a gun into a dorm, he did so anyway, so why should concealed handgun license holders be prohibited from carrying when criminals can just ignore the law anyways.


Its up to individuals to provide for their own defense, nobody else can be counted on to be there to protect you at all times except yourself.

[Baby Snooks]

23. The reality of violence on campuses....

At some point someone will enter a building with a gun and shoot someone. All the cowboys and cowgirls will rush out into the halls with their guns drawn. And not know who to shoot. Because everyone will be holding a gun. And someone may shoot and then everyone starts shooting. And then instead of one dead victim you have 20. Or 25. Or 40. Or 50.

But the cowboys and the cowgirls of Texas want to have their guns with them all times. And so it appears they will have them.

[derby378]

7. Final Senate passage today - SB 1164 now headed for the House

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2009/05/20/final_passage_for_gunsoncampus.html

[Baby Snooks]

8. Who voted for and against?

The Houston Chronicle says 19-12. Two Austin-American Statesman says 20-11. So which was it? Hopefully the House will kill it but I doubt it.

Texans love their guns. Or is that Texas bubbas love their guns? They love their six-packs of Budweiser too. A winning combination.

[Jack_DeLeon]

9. Hopefully it will also pass in the House...

I see no reason why CHL holders should be prohibited from carrying in schools.

Why is a college campus any different than any other public place where they can already carry.

Keeping law abiding citizens from carrying will not stop crimes, if a criminal wanted to shooting up a school, no "prohibition" would stop them.

[Baby Snooks]

16. Metal detectors would...

That is why we have them in our courthouses and other "public places" including our airports and our government buildings where no one is allowed to carry a gun except law enforcement.

There are incidents every day in this state involving guns and law enforcement never does say if the person had a license to carry the gun. I guess if you murder someone the point becomes moot doesn't it?

It's not less a murder just because you had a license to carry the gun. And I suspect quite a few did. It just isn't reported by law enforcement and so it just isn't reported by the media or included in reports on crime in Texas and how licenses to carry guns have reduced the crime rates. Probably because in fact they haven't.

[X_Digger]

20. TX maintains separate stats on CHL holders..

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm

Here are other stats..

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/demographics.htm

[Baby Snooks]

22. Thanks...

I'd not seen this before. I would point out that these are conviction rates on cases where charges were filed and not all of the charges involved use of a gun. All this reflects is how many had licenses to carry guns. I still maintain this is bad news for campuses. Time will tell.

[X_Digger]

24. True, only convictions reported..

but I'm sure if a person with a CHL so much as jaywalks, it gets added to a stat somewhere.

For me, it goes to show that Texas CHL holders are (as a group) more law-abiding than your average citizen.

[Xela]

29. "time will tell"

I told myself the same thing back in when we first wanted to pass CCW/CHL laws.

I swallowed the whole enchilada: "bloodbath in the streets", "cowboys and indians", "days of the old west", and other kneejerk reaction type crap like that.

Now I like to think that I know better thanks to a little education. Also, I don't have to fear to be a pro-RKBA liberal.

Xela

[mbperrin]

13. No deal unless they're required to squeeze off a few rounds every time they enter a building!

And think of the boost to the economy from the thousands of extra rounds of ammo fired off daily!

In fact, REQUIRE ALL students to carry! More business!

Woo-hoo!

Do I REALLY need a sarcasm tag?

[mammon82]

31. OHS

Just as an aside, I'm fairly certain I was in your class at OHS a decade or so ago, give or take. Small world. Oh, and I'm a borderline gun nut, so I'm actually a little torn on this one. I carried for years on deployments overseas, and we didn't often shoot each other. Although... one of my bunk mates claim to fame was having been exposed to friendly fire with just about every small arms weapon we employ. Maybe college kids should just dig fighting holes as well, it worked for him.

[EndersDame]

21. I am glad

This way the college girls will able to own a weapon for self defense

[JonQ]

25. Well doing away with CHL on college campuses

doesn't seem to have prevented a lot of shootings. For some reason mass murderers aren't too concerned about being able to legally conceal their weapons before going on a killing spree.

Besides, CHL only applies to those who are over 21, have never had a felony, took the class, and have paid the not unsubstantial fee to get a license.

Hardly the same as handing every college kid a gun, some ammo and a keg and telling them to go wild.

[Ginny from the Block]

26. This bill went down with a Wimper and Not a Bang!

I guess this is one of those bills we should be glad that the "chubbing" in the state house killed, without even packing any heat! It's amazing to me how guns-on-demand advocates want to tote guns everywhere....on campuses, in state and national parks, etc. without proper background checks! See my blog posting on common NRA myths at: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/ginnystognermcdavid/gGxnSr.

[tammywammy]

27. Welcome to DU Ginny!

Glad to see you found the Texas forum okay. :hi:

[Xela]

28. "...without proper background checks"?

As it has been stated earlier, CHL/CCW individuals already go through an intensive process to be allowed to carry a concealed firearm.

This process includes a background check, minimum age (21), a substantial fee, training, range time...

I see no problem with the idea to allow concealed firearms on campuses (public and private).

I hope it comes back and it gets approved.

Predators target areas where residents and citizens are not allowed to defend themselves ("gun free zones"), we should be allowed to take care of ourselves and/or our families.

Xela

[Ginny from the Block]

30. I'm not worried about those with a concealed license. They're not committing the murders!

The problem with allowing guns to be toted everywhere defies the need for universal background checks on anyone buying a new or used gun. More offense requires more defense, but if we did our job on the "offense" side, then not everyone would have to pack heat to feel safe.