Mother recently relocated to WI, thinking of following ...

[NewHampshireDem]

My wife and I will be packing up our two boys (ages 7 months and 3 years) in February for a visit to Waukesha. When we go, I am hoping to scout out potential areas we could relocate to. (We're sick of the political climate, lack of services, crappy schools, and general child-unfriendliness of southern New Hampshire.)

I've been finishing up my CAGS in Education and have experience as both an administrator and an English teacher. My wife is a project manager for a software company (typical middle-management-style work).

Madison seems to us to be the kind of place we've been looking for: a family-friendly college town that isn't sky-high expensive.

The key criteria are:
Good schools
Nice parks
Museums/cultural events/things to do indoors with the boys
Bookstores (preferrably a couple of good used-book stores :) )
Walkable downtown/city center

Are we right or are we off-base? Do you think we could find jobs in the Madison area?

(Just for the sake of context, b/c I'm sure Madison may seem expensive ... I am 30 miles or so from the nearest small city, Portsmouth, and about 60 miles from Boston. My 1400 sq foot cape on a 1/4 acre would easily bring us $300,000. And teacher salaries in my area suck ... after 10 years in the profession I make about $45k ... not a paltry amount, but still very little for someone my age/education. So I'm not looking for Connecticut-type teacher salaries.)

[sybylla]

1. Then you are right to look at Madison

But there are parts of the Milwaukee area that would fit your criteria as well.

I lived in and near Madison for eight years. I am happy to say it has everything you are looking for. But be aware that the cost of living there is skyrocketing. I have a friend who still lives on the north side of town and is struggling as a single mom living in a condo making 40k+ a year. But you probably don't have to get as far away as 10 miles to find housing is much more reasonable.

One caveat, it may be difficult for you to find a job as a teacher. Thanks to the pukes, our schools have been subject to revenue caps for over ten years and many of them are tightening belts to the point that they are not hiring. I know a teacher who graduated two years ago and still can't find full time employment. A local position received more than 400 applications.

As an administrator, you may have better luck. Some of these more troubled districts are looking for talented administrators to give them a hand in their balancing budget while providing a quality education. It would be a challenging job but a much more likely opportunity. If we win a Dem house in our legislature, we may just be able to lift or modify those caps in a way that will change the situation.

Good luck on your search. I hope we can welcome another Dem to Wisconsin very soon.

[JulieWisc]

8. I agree Madison is great...

Although I live in Fond du lac Madison is where I would love to move to someday. Good Luck!!

[RevCheesehead]

9. Hey, Julie!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[JulieWisc]

11. Thanks you all for the Welcome!!

Although I have been here daily for almost a year now I finally took the time to register and participate!

[RevCheesehead]

12. Yeah, a lot of us lurked before the plunge.

Me? Only about 2 months.

I'm glad you've decided to join us. :)

[sybylla]

10. Welcome to DU!

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

The more the merrier!

[newyawker99]

15. Hi JulieWisc!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Goblinmonger]

25. Hey there

:hi: I live in Oshkosh, teach in Ripon. Welcome to DU

[gizmo1979]

2. I live in the Sheboygan area

if you are looking at a smaller city.Our schools are pretty good,art's museum not sure what the teachers make,but 300,000 grand would buy a mansion here.

[ewagner]

3. Madsion Area is a good choice

Verona, Dodgeville and some of the other "suburbs" have excellent schools and lots of opportunity for software types...


Good luck...hope to call you Neighbor real soon.

[B3Nut]

19. Don't forget Mount Horeb

We're 15 minutes from Madtown, have a brew pub (the Grumpy Troll...GREAT food and beer!), lots of wooden trolls, and a mustard museum. :) Great quiet little village. There's a new family-restaurant called Spring Garden right on the main drag in town, they serve a dizzying array of good food for cheap. It's become one of my fave eatin' haunts.

The Military Ridge trail runs through MH as well, great path for a walk. Housing is still pricey, but not as expensive as being in Madison proper. Mt. Horeb went pretty strongly blue last election, too...overall fairly progressive.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[Cyndee_Lou_Who]

4. I sent you a PM on this topic...

Let us know when you're coming to town and we can try to get the WI DU'ers together to give you a taste of our hospitality... :hi:

[htuttle]

5. You'll like Madison -- it has all those criteria

And while it may be more expensive than the rest of Wisconsin, it's nothing compared to costs on the East Coast.

We rent a 2 Bdrm flat for $700/mo right on the Isthmus, but all utilities are paid, including heat and electricity, so it's really not that expensive.

Keep in mind that rents can vary widely block by block around here. I'm right on Willy street, and the same apartment one block over on Jenifer would probably be $200 more a month. If you can live with traffic (and the occasional loud drunk stumbling by on the weekends), locations right on main roads are usually quite a bit cheaper.

One thing though -- make sure to time your apartment search with the university calendar. Lots of apartments are usually available a few months before breaks, and very little is usually available right around the semester breaks.

[lutefisk]

6. Madison is a healthy, progressive, family oriented city.

Madison has a progressive political climate, excellent community services, very good schools, and is very child-friendly- so you're covered on those points.

I'd recommend living on the near West Side (pretty much anywhere west of the University, but inside the beltline). You can get a nice house in a great neighborhood for $200,000-$300,000. Can't think of a better small city for kids. Great for walking, biking, days at the park... Go for it.

[Zynx]

13. Although the kids might get a little shocked by Madison's version of

Halloween. ;-)

[NewHampshireDem]

7. Thanks for the help everyone!

:) Keep those suggestions coming. I'll keep everyone updated as the visit date approaches.

BTW, talking to my mother the other night she had lots of good things to say about everyone she's met out there. Her friends in WI, both new and old, have taken great care of her. (Because of her job, she knew a lot of people in the area before she moved out there.)

[Broca]

14. On the political climate

I do not want to discourage you but you should know the bad along with the good. Welcome aboard.

You may improve your standard of living in Wisconsin but don't expect much improvement on the political climate that you are sick of in New Hampshire. Sadly the story below is becoming too typical. And he is among the few that are caught and get a little justice.

http://www.wisdc.org/blog/2005/10/another-day-another-convicted-felon.html
Tuesday, October 25, 2005
Another Day, Another Convicted Felon
Former state Senate Majority Leader Chuck Chvala was found guilty of two felonies today and is headed to jail. Under the plea agreement presented to Dane County Judge David Flanagan this morning, Chvala pleaded guilty to misconduct in office and arranging illegal campaign contributions.

As part of the plea deal, prosecutors and Chvala's defense team agreed to recommend a six-month jail sentence, two years probation and a fine of up to $5,500. Judge Flanagan is not bound by that recommendation when he sentences Chvala in early December, and could sentence him to as much as five years in prison for the two felonies. In sentencing Chvala, the judge needs to think of the message he will be sending to the Capitol and the people of Wisconsin. The harsher the punishment, the stronger the message.

Chvala was charged in October 2002 with 20 felonies, including extortion. More than a year earlier, the Democracy Campaign obtained a confidential memo from a prominent lobbyist to his special interest clients detailing how Chvala would "not look favorably upon groups" that did not meet his demands for campaign contributions. We made the memo public and then followed up with research showing that the special interest donors changed their giving patterns in response to Chvala's demands.

Here is a couple of randow WI links if you are into political information.

http://www.fightingbob.com/

http://thewheelerreport.com/

[Poiuyt]

16. Appleton

Appleton has everything on your list. Of special note is the Children's Museum, Historical Museum with permanent Houdini exhibit, semi-pro baseball team is great fun for the family, colleges and Performing Arts Center for cultural events, our public library was named the top library in the state last year, and a downtown "square" where they have outdoor concerts every week in the summer. Not perfect, but a great place to raise a family.

[Dying Eagle]

32. I agree

I live in Appleton and I love it.

[Liberal Librarian]

17. Other Re-location Possibilities

The city of Sun Prairie has a respectable school system and is located pretty close to Madison. The Middleton-Cross Plains School District is also excellent. The city of Middleton borders Madison and the Village of Cross Plains is about 20 miles west of Madison.

Though I know I'm plugging my profession, South Central Wisconsin has a superb public library library system. I know many people regard good and accessible public libraries a must when considering relocation.

[sybylla]

18. Welcome Liberal Librarian!

Nice to have you here.

[Liberal Librarian]

22. Thanks for the Welcome

Thanks for the nice welcome. I actually learned about Democratic Underground while waiting for my flight home after the D.C. anti-war rally. A gentleman from Michigan told me about it and I registered within the week. Fascinating, humorous and intelligent posts.

[ewagner]

21. Welcome to DU!

I have to agree that South Central Wisconsin has a lot of opportunities.

Again, welcome :hi: :toast: :hi:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

20. My 2 cents on Madison

I've lived here most of my life, and have witnessed the changes here over more decades than I care to admit. From my point of view, many of the qualities that made Madison such a special and wonderful place have been compromised, or are disappearing or gone...I could write for a solid DAY about what was and is no more, but I will stick to only a few issues...

Dane County is the fastest growing in the state, and the population has exploded here and in surrounding communities so badly that there is no longer any space between Madison and the suburbs. Development is constant and rampant, and encroaching farther and farther out into rural areas and once-small, sleepy towns that now are becoming "bedroom" communities for commuters.

We used to only have to drive about 5 miles to be out in the country, to enjoy the serenity of the natural rural landscape. Now we have to drive 4 or 5 times farther (minimum, depending on what direction you are going). The traffic has gotten heavy and intense and it just keeps getting worse.

There is MUCH debate about how good the public schools are these days. Many parents have pulled their kids out of Madison schools in the past 5-15 years due to a number of issues, and have moved to aforementioned suburbs and bedroom communities so their kids could attend school in a different district. Do a little googling and you might get the gist of some of the political issues going on here...

I can't write more right now, but will say that many of the current problems in Madison are the same as the ones afflicting every other city these days, and I guess that is part of what bothers me--it has lost its uniqueness in many ways.

[sybylla]

23. Heard much the same from a friend who still lives in Madison

She move there in 1981. I moved there in 1982 but moved out of the area in 1990. She just recently confided in me her sorrow over what Madison is becoming. It's unfortunate. A community that used to offer the best of both worlds - progressive, big city opportunities and rural peace - seems to be becoming something that no longer offers either.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

24. good synopsis

Another issue is this:
Who are these self-important movers and shakers that have taken over our city, and where did they come from? Or as well-known local figure and long-time Madisonian, Marshall Shapiro said a few weeks ago, "I want these Johnny come lately do-gooders to give me my city back".

The powers that be (TPTB) are doing everything possible to gentrify, yuppify and homogenize Madtown, and at this point it seems they are winning. One local benefactor whose wife happens to be the woman who started the American Girl (doll) company, gave a humongous cash "gift" to Madison ($200,000,000), after American Girl sold out to Mattel. This gift had strings attached: It had to be used to build a Performing Arts Center. A number of historic buildings and popular,long-standing businesses (Miller's Market, Dotty Dumplings --which you probably remember, and a couple other shops),were forced to vacate their premises to make way for the destruction of several blocks that would be devoted to the Barbie Center(as I call it).

This thing was designed by Cesar Pelli, who must have laughed all the way to the bank...this thing is so ugly, and banal looking, it looks like an abandoned suburban mall with a plastic, clam shell, take-out container stuck on top... The construction of this ostentatious albatross is still going on after how many years, I don't remember. Here are some pictures, along with somebody's blog about it: althouse.blogspot.com/2004_08_01_althouse_archive.html

Anyway, this place is not about what Madison is to people who know and remember Madison from its better days. It's becoming more and more elitist and "straight" (in the sense of mainstream) and TPTB run around and pat each other on the back, and push those who are not elitist and mainstream aside...

And for the Barbie Center, they closed places that "regular" people liked to go, like Millers, which had been there probably for 30 years, a nice market with a sit-down deli that was perfect for lunch if you were on a student (or any other) budget...

Here I go again, now I'm going to be late for my appointment...I cant stop when I start spewing about this!

[sybylla]

27. That is a perfect example of what my friend has said

Elitism has taken over, as far as she is concerned, and is nudging everything else aside. She is quite saddened to see it and, as soon as her daughter graduates highschool in two years will be moving away from the city she has called home for most of her life.

It really is sad. Madison was such a gem and I still have fond memories about our time there, even though we were poor college students for most of it and couldn't afford to enjoy it more. We considered moving back in 1997, but after my husband spent 6 weeks at his new job, he said he couldn't stand it. Madison had become too much like a giant ant hill - crowded and everything was a rush.

So I'm stuck here near a central Wisconsin community about 1/20 the size of Madison that is sadly just as elitist with the TPTB shoving needless "improvements" down everyone's throat. But at least I don't have to worry about traffic.

[jane_pippin]

33. Oh! I lived there during the beginning of the Overture stuff...

Just visited not long ago (I'm back in Milwaukee now) and I cannot believe how ridiculous that thing looks on State Street. And condos everywhere! My friends used to live on S. Bassett in this student slum house--good times, actually. So we cruise by to have a look on our last visit and there's this big stone thing proclaiming that we are in the "Bassett District."
:rofl: La di da! A district! Who knew!

I lived there for 5 years and people who never lived there who ask me how I liked it don't understand how I could possibly have anything less than glowing words to say about the place. It's a great place, don't get me wrong, but it's no utopia.

Anyway, you put it much better than I ever could so thanks for that.

[lutefisk]

34. I wish we could roll back time and open State St. to traffic again

Call me crazy, but everyone still has to walk on the sidewalks, so nothing was really gained. It's essentially a tollroad for buses and paying passengers now.

It was just so much more vibrant when State St. was a "street" with people actually traveling up and down from the Capital to the mall/UW. When I think of some of the great city streets in North America, I don't think of any that were turned into pedestrian malls.

I know that to some people, saying this is right up there with the SUV debate, but I saw the town and the street both ways, and I feel the life was sucked out of it by closing it down to traffic.

And I still say that if you live close in, but not too close, it's still a great place to live. I prefer the near West, but other areas appeal to other people.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

35. When a mall is not a mall.....

I finally came back to this thread, to see if anybody else had any comments on Madtown as a great place to live, and see I had missed some!

The State St "mall" is not a mall and is not a street. Now when did they put this in--1980? So for 25 years we have been living with this street/mall combo. I agree with you that it ought to still be a street, or else a real mall, with fountains and nicer seating areas. It is wishy washy...

If I had to live in the city limits, I would choose the near west side too. That is where I grew up--Westmorland. But I bailed out and live in a rural suburban area.

[RevCheesehead]

26. After suffering thru another traffic jam on the beltline not long ago,

(I was taking my parents to the doctor), I asked them "So, when is Madison going to build yet another beltine around the beltine around the beltline?"

Madison is not what I remember - not in the late 60's, not even the early '80's. (I was born there, moved when I was 6, then returned to UW for 2 years).

The only cultural advantage I have seen is the arrival of Bruegger's Bagels (definately one of the best bagel places ever!). Other than that, Madison is perpetually under road construction and swarmed in traffic.

I don't think I'd ever want to live there again.

[htuttle]

28. After 14 years here, I never want to live anywhere else

But I moved here from Milwaukee, which is worse in every way you described (traffic, road construction, etc...).

No, I wouldn't want to live on the suburban West Side, but Willy Street (where I live) still seems like a kinder, nicer Brady Street to me (though like Brady Street, Willy is also in danger of being over-gentrified).

To deal with the traffic here, I just hop on my scooter, throw some Algerian Rai music on the iPod, and work the flow like a Bombay mini-cab driver. :) It's usually not as bad as all that, though. I think the trick is to stay OFF the beltline during rush hour...

[eowyn_of_rohan]

29. AHA! You picked a good location

The Willy Street area is about all we have left of old Madison. Back when we had (best as I can analyze it so far) the almost perfect blend of university town intellectualism and sophistication, political awareness, a strong counter culture, and a salt of the earth blue collar contingency ...

Milwaukee has ALWAYS had relatively big city traffic problems, but we didn't used to, so it has been a big change, and particularly hard to watch it happen here too ...

I am glad you said SUBURBAN west side was undesirable because too many people here, these days, lump the whole west side together as undesirable. I grew up on the west side, in what is now called near west side, which is (and has always been) a whole different thing than suburban west side. Heck, I don't even consider suburban west side (or east, north or south for that matter!) "Madison" --do you?

[htuttle]

30. The near west side (or 'the Presidents' as we call it at the cab company)

...is "downtown" as far as I'm concerned. The Camp Randall neighborhood is also "downtown".

Odana, Mineral Point, and points West (pretty much everything past Whitney, though it begins to get iffy after Midvale) is sort of 'Madison Plus' as far as I'm concerned. It's a suburb inside the city limits in a lot of ways. "The City", for me, is between Hwy 51, Northport, the lakes, the south Beltline at Park, and Midvale. I don't mind the other parts, but they just aren't the same -- a lot less character.

BTW, East Johnson street is still nice. So are many of the neighborhoods between Atwood and East Washington. Still a lot of "blue collar intellectuals" living there.

[NewHampshireDem]

31. Again, thanks!

You've all given me a lot to think about. I can't wait to get out there and see things for myself in February. :)