Man who read Bible to, and had sex with, his comatose wife every day, charged with rape (NSFW)

[Ian David]

Court Says Police Illegally Taped Nursing Home Sex
Category Miscellaneous
Date September 16th, 2008 8:37 pm

“Police illegally videotaped a Wisconsin man having sex with his wife while she was in a coma in her nursing home room, an appeals court ruled Thursday. David W. Johnson, 59, had an expectation to privacy when he visited his wife at Divine Savior Nursing Home in Portage, the District 4 Court of Appeals ruled. Therefore, police violated his Fourth Amendment rights against unreasonable searches when they installed a hidden video camera in the room, the court said… The ruling means prosecutors cannot introduce the video tapes as evidence in their case against Johnson, who is charged with felony sexual assault for having intercourse with his wife without her consent at least three times in 2005. Johnson’s wife, Leah, was admitted to the nursing home after suffering a stroke, unable to speak or sit up. Nursing home staff members fed, cleaned and turned her, checking on her at least every two hours. Prosecutors say she was comatose. Johnson’s attorney Christopher Kelly said his client would visit the woman he married in 1988 every day, reading her the Bible and moving her arms and legs so her muscles wouldn’t atrophy. The woman’s sister, who is now her legal guardian, is upset that prosecutors brought charges against him, Kelly said.” — Chicago Tribune (US)

The appeals court offered a sensible opinion about the legality of videotaping inside Mrs. Johnson’s nursing home room. It would be hard pressed, however, to offer an opinion on the basic legality of Mr. Johnson shtupping his comatose wife. That’s a much thornier issue. On one hand, you could take the strict viewpoint that non-consensual sex is rape. It doesn’t matter whether the person initiating the act is a husband or a care provider. It doesn’t matter whether or not he has good intentions. Since a comatose person is unable to provide consent, says the strict view, to screw her is rape.

On the other hand, somehow this case doesn’t seem to conform to a strict interpretation of sexual consent. The husband appears to be well-intentioned. By all accounts he has been solicitous in visiting and caring for his wife. Nobody has accused him of having a “sleepy time fetish” or assaulting other comatose patients. Maybe having sex with his wife is a deep expression of his love, or of his desperation to find a way to communicate with her, or of a strange notion that it might actually rouse her from her coma. But the thing is, in the final analysis, she can’t consent, and no one can know if she would have consented… So it’s all very murky.

Perhaps this is the sort of dilemma the nursing home never should have turned over to the police. Did they ever confront Mr. Johnson about it? And meanwhile lawyers should busy themselves updating the standard language of a living will. If I am ever incapacitated, do I want a health-care proxy? Do I want to be maintained on life support systems? Do I want my spouse to fuck me even though I’m a vegetable?

More (NOT SAFE FOR WORK):
http://pervscan.com/2008/09/16/court-says-police-illegally-taped-nursing-home-sex/

[grannie4peace]

1. that is really interesting- what a mess

[Sanity Claws]

2. Did he hurt her?

I don't want to get too graphic but if she is comatose and not sexually responsive to her husband, he could have hurt her.

[lynnertic]

3. And what if she had gotten pregnant ??

I'm glad I don't have to judge this one.

:popcorn:

[meowomon]

4. EEEEWWWW

[bobthedrummer]

5. There is a lot of evil in Portage-on both sides of law enforcement

"The screaming of children in quiet Portage, Wisconsin" (started June 22, 2007)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1161061

[cliffordu]

6. Well..... the bottom has finally been reached. There is NO aspect of

this story that is not completely disgusting....

[ogneopasno]

7. It's rape.

There's no question about it.

[Ian David]

11. I'm undecided.

Would you change your mind if the woman had written in her medical proxy form an advance directive giving her husband permission to have sex with her if she was comatose?

[ogneopasno]

16. Maybe.

Did he?

[Ian David]

21. Doesn't look like it was included in her advance directive. Does ANYONE think to include that?

Does anyone think to write, "No, do NOT have sex with me if I am comatose" either?

Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment, I would argue that the marriage contract they signed together implies permission to have sex in sickness and in health, and absent any "no sex if I'm comatose" directive that would remain in force, or unless it is clear she would have disapproved, unless (as it looks likely) there is a serious medical risk to having sex with her.

This would not mean it's okay to drug someone and anally rape them like Bush's Abstinence Czar did to his wife.

I am leaning slightly toward this:

1) The hospital should have told him to stop doing it for medical reasons.
2) If the hospital DID tell him to stop, THEN he should have been charged for something like reckless endangerment.

Although if someone could sway my opinion by a mere 5% or so, I'd say yeah, this is rape.

[LanternWaste]

22. What specifics in the marriage contract...

What specifics in the marriage contract would imply a permission for sex absent direct or indirect consent?

[Ian David]

23. Hmm... good point. n/t

[Dorian Gray]

30. Being married does not mean

being able to have sex all the time. It's a partnership, where both partners have equal say in a sexual relationship.

She was unable to give consent to her husband, therefore he abused his position. It's pretty simple to me.

[Ian David]

34. I'm with you about 99% on this now. But I'd still like to see what the guy's frame of mind was.

For example, when he read "The" Bible to her, did he only read the parts about how women are supposed to be subservient to their husbands?

[Dorian Gray]

77. Well, if he did

then he has some really horrible issues. I hope not. But we can't know.

Regardless, I feel for the poor woman in the coma, and any family she has that knows that their father/brother/in-law/etc. did that to her when she was in a coma.

The sad thing is that there is probably fetish films about this very thing.

[uppityperson]

54. Marriage is a legal contract, nothing about sex there. If you go with religious contract

I'm not sure which religions say a man has permission to have sex with a woman without her actual consent each time. Legally, a married husband can rape his married to wife, it has happened.

No marriage contract I ever signed had anything in it about permission for sex. Matter of fact, seems have had more sex before signing that contract (low moral librul here).

[Jamastiene]

79. I tend to think that if she was not awake, she could not consent.

That technically could fall in the same category as something like date rape.

Then again, they may have been very close and we do not know her take on what she'd think about him doing that.

I'm smack dab in the middle on this, but leaning toward more of an "ewwwww" than anything. Whether it is rape or not, I'm honestly not sure what to think. I am leaning toward saying it is rape, but at the same time, I do not know the people involved and do not know what that particular wife would think of all this. Maybe at the trial, the judge will answer that question. Who knows?

[Romulox]

24. Irrelevant; a comatose person is not competent to grant consent.

It's rape. You can't write a contract that says, "you can rape me if I go into a coma."

[Ian David]

27. Are you sure you can't include consent to sexual activity in an advance directive?

If so, that means I have to change my Last Will and Testament that gives my wife permission to have sex with my corpse.

My will also says I cannot be posthumously converted to any religion after I die.

[Romulox]

32. Neither of the provisions you mention could be enforced in a Court of Law or Equity

Am I "sure"? Well, the legal principle is crystal clear. Criminal cases are decided by juries, however.

[eshfemme]

48. Is that an a provision to prevent baptism into the Mormon faith?

The Mormons believe in baptismal by proxy of their ancestors so that the Mormon and their antecedents will be "saved" together. Are their other religions like that like maybe, some of the fundie churches? I'm just curious to know.

[Ian David]

50. Mormons and someone else do that, but I forget who. n/t

[Tallison]

78. YES, you can establish a sexual AD/POA...

The idea of a sexual AD or sexual POA has come up among nursing home administrators as the size of retirement communities and the commensurate social shenanigans swell. Add a dash of dementia, and things get, well...complicated. In response to a notorious case in which a pair of demented lovebirds became inseparable and the family of one sued the nursing home, The Hebrew Home in New York now asks all residents to establish the equivalent of a sexual AD/POA on admission. It says it does this in progressive recognition of the health benefits of sexual and romantic intimacy and activity. As an RN, I tend to agree.


New York Times article on the Hebrew Home, "At Elder's Home, Every Day is Valentine's Day":

Not long ago while doing morning rounds at the Hebrew Home for the Aged in Riverdale, the Bronx, Edna Adams, a nurse's aide, knocked on a resident's door. As was her habit, when she didn't hear an answer, she pushed it open, and found two of her patients -- each over 80 and with Alzheimer's disease -- nude and making noisy, passionate love.

With barely a hint of surprise, she did exactly what she was supposed to: she whispered ''excuse me,'' closed the door and made a mental note to come back and make the bed later.

''When I first started, I was shocked and shy when I would see them having sex,'' said Ms. Adams, 46, who has worked at the Hebrew Home for 17 years. ''But now I've seen it so often that I just think, if two of them like each other and they are together, why shouldn't they be allowed to have sex?''

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9401E3D8133AF937A35755C0A9649C8B63

[Ian David]

95. That's very helpful, but having dementia is different from being comatose and non-responsive.

Even someone suffering from dementia can tell you if you are hurting them or violating them.

But I'm going to research this and add a sexual AD or sexual POA to my medical proxy form.

I may even write in permission for my wife to have sex with me once, under medical supervision, just to see if that might be what wakes me up.

However, I don't think I want her (or anyone) coming in once a week to have her way with me, mostly because it might not be good for a comatose man to have a woman repeatedly bouncing around on top of him all the time.

[question everything]

83. How about extracting semen for artifical insemination?

I think that these are real cases.

[fudge stripe cookays]

92. Doggone those Mormons!

Converting you after you're dead!

As a genealogist, I find it creepy too. But I need their help. Too many good records for me to ignore them.

[Ian David]

97. Can you check and see if Sarah Heath Palin is really related to the Heath Chocolate guy? n/t

[fudge stripe cookays]

103. Probably not.

I don't have enough information to go on.

[fascisthunter]

52. wrong place to reply....

[Lil Missy]

91. Are you fucking kidding?

Why would anyone even consider having sex with a comatose partner?

Jeezus Christ! :puke:

[Ian David]

96. I can think of many reasons- some good, most bad-- but I am now convinced this is a bad thing. n/t

[Suji to Seoul]

13. And, when she comes out of the coma (hopefully) and says "It's fine by me. He wasn't cheating on me

and her husband's in prison under your idea of the law. . .will you give him his dignity, years and self-respect back?

Who are you, or the police, to be the arbiter of whether this woman would have consented?

It's rape, no question about it. . .I'm glad you're not on the jury, if there is one.

[ogneopasno]

17. No, I won't.

Because I find it highly unlikely.

Whether she consented or not, the point is she didn't. If this were another woman he didn't know in the facility, would it be OK? If not, why is it OK just because she's his wife?

[Suji to Seoul]

18. There is always implied consent among spouses until one spouse says no.

Why not wait until she pulls out of the coma before we brandish him a rapist?

Again. . .I'm glad you're not on the jury.

on edit: God forbid it happens to you. . .and if you're in a coma, would you put your own spouse in prison? If so. . .never get married, and if you are. . .tell your spouse (if you are a woman) right now so they can cheat on you with a clear conscience if you are!

[LanternWaste]

25. Is that a legal decision or an opinion?

"There is always implied consent among spouses until one spouse says no."

Is that a legal decision or an opinion? If the former, I'd love to see the case citation and decision...

[Romulox]

26. Your backwards looking inquiry misses the point; a comatose person does not the capacity to consent

[Suji to Seoul]

28. Why not wait until she wakes up before we condemn and throw the pervert in prison is all I'm saying

I remember this exact thing with the right to die with Terri Schiavo.

[Romulox]

29. Because the crime occurs, if at all, at the time of the act. nt

[Suji to Seoul]

31. Okay. . .and if she says "no, don't prosecute," then what?

Again. . .what harm will it do to wait?

[ogneopasno]

37. Wait for what? Until she wakes up?

What if she doesn't?

[Suji to Seoul]

39. I don't know. . .ask Michael Schiavo. Same logic, different circumstance.

No living will. Is he guilty of murder?

We are way too quick of a society to throw people into prison.

[uppityperson]

58. Having sex with spouse in a coma=letting spouse finish dying?

Good lord I am glad you are not my spouse.

[Romulox]

41. As a practical matter, that may figure into a DA's decision whether or not to prosecute

On a strictly technical level, after-the-fact consent by the putative victim is immaterial, since the crime is complete at the time of the sex act with a person incapable of consenting.

[Dorian Gray]

33. My husband

would never force me to have sex, whether I was in a coma or not. I wouldn't have married him if I thought he was capable of such abuse.

And it is abuse.

[Suji to Seoul]

40. All I'll say is. . .you never know. God forbid if ever happens though.

[uppityperson]

57. Legally, no. Morally, no. There is no implied consent.

I am telling my husband that he can use his hand. Or, if I'm in a coma, he can find his emotional support where he needs to. I trust him enough to know he loves me enough to not have sex on my unconscious body without my consent. I also trust him enough and know he loves me enough to not have sex on my conscious body without my consent.

Legally, there is no implied consent. Men have gotten in legal trouble for raping their wife.

[Ian David]

64. I'll have to check, but I think I gave my wife permission to harvest my sperm if I'm comatose.

I know my Last Will and Testament has a necrophilia consent I put in as a favor for my bisexual Republican former friend who was constantly hitting on me, and I told him that when I was dead, he could have me (but not before).

But I think I will pass on the comatose sex clause in my medical proxy document.

[Wilber_Stool]

42. I don't think a man can be charged with rape

until the victim accuses him. A woman can't be forced to charge anyone with rape. It's her call. Until she awakens, there is no victim.

[LanternWaste]

47. a man may be charged with rape without an accusation from the victim.

There has been at least one instance in the state of TX in which a caregiver raped a severely mentally retarded patient at a nursing home. The patient never accused the victim. He was imprisoned.

How was the rape found out? She got pregnant. Yet according to the standard you posted, in this instance there was no rape and there was no victim.

So, yes... a man may be charged with rape without an accusation from the victim, at least in Texas.

[Ian David]

51. Also begs the question: Is he keeping her "alive" just so he can keep raping her? n/t

[LanternWaste]

60. That's a question I never would have thought of.

That's a question I never would have thought of... eeesshhh!

[Ian David]

61. It was on my list of most morbid questions right before, "Does he plan on eating her?" n/t

[LanternWaste]

65. Damn you...

Now I'm going to be entertaining a story of a man who keeps his comatose wife alive for "various reasons" for the rest of the afternoon!

(good thoughts... good thoughts... puppies, the Banana Splits, free Springsteen tickets!)

Coming soon to a theater near you.
Directed by Darren Lynn Bousman
Starring Ben Kingsley as the deranged husband and Julia Louise-Dreyfus as the comatose wife...

[Ian David]

70. There are worse reasons. For example, to score political points for Republicans. n/t

[anitar1]

88. Just another pervert . Clutching his holy book for appearances sake.

[Wilber_Stool]

72. But here there is the potential

for her to awake and make a decision. There is no such chance in your case. As long as that potential exists, any trial I think would be premature. There is also a potential that she will not regain consciousness.
If that's the case, her brain will deteriorate to the point that a determination of weather life support should be continued will have to be made. Baring a living will that determination would fall on him. It would be ironic, indeed, if he had to make that decision from a jail cell.

[LanternWaste]

75. You can cite court cases...

You can cite court cases which have implied that sex with a comatose individual is legal?

Anyway, the example I cited was simply to disavow anyone of the silly notion that an accusation is necessary for a rape conviction.

edited: clarity

[anarch]

49. I don't see how anyone could ever have any dignity or self respect after this

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. reading fairy tales to someone comatose is torture. Period.

as for the sex, that man is sick.

[LanternWaste]

12. I would imagine that reading to a comatose patient would be..

I would imagine that reading to a comatose patient would be merely ineffectual (at worst) or possibly even therapeutic (at best), regarldess of whether the reading material is the Brothers Grimm, 'Meditations' by Marcus Aurelius, or just an article from the most recent issue of The Smithsonian. :shrug:

[Suji to Seoul]

9. Okay. . .how should I feel?

This one's tough.

Fuck the cops for being voyeurs.

Dude. . .I know you're married and you love her, but she's in a coma.

[IndianaJones]

10. wasn't this a quentin tarantino flick? nt.

[Lars39]

14. He's actually endangering her health, with increased risk of UTIs.

[Ian David]

15. Not to mention vaginal (I presume, it's vaginal sex) tearing and pregnancy. n/t

[The Stranger]

19. ?!?!

[old mark]

20. I don't know if it's legal rape, but is sure as hell is distasteful.

Although, as was posted, he might just be expressing love for his wife, and attempting to communicate with her.
This is really depending on what their relationship was like before her stroke,etc, but it just makes me feel creepy.

I love my wife, and she has severe liver disease and has acrually been comatose several times over the last 5 years, but it never made me horny.
It made me feel loss and dispair.

mark

[Dorian Gray]

36. That's because

you love and respect your life. You had a normal reaction to incredibly sad circumstance. I am sorry for your wife's illnesses and that you've had to suffer through them.

[old mark]

44. Thank you.

I retired early to take care of her, and her health has improved very much over the last 1 1/2 years. I am very fortunate to still have her around.

mark

[Dorian Gray]

76. It sounds like she is very fortunate to have you around

Again, I'm sorry that you've had to suffer through the bad times, but I'm happy for both of you that her health HAS improved. That's great news. :)

[Caoimhe]

35. Ugh

this makes me sick on many levels. It wasn't the police departments business. I admire him for wanting to help his wife by moving her arms and legs, but to then go and fap her, how can that be enjoyable for him? It's one step away from having sex with a corpse. If he needed to fap his comatose wife to keep from cheating on her, that's just pathetic.

Isn't he basically just using her as a sperm receptacle? The risks of UTI are very real, especially if she cannot urinate and flush certain bacteria. If she was cathedarized.. well just eww. Leave the lady alone to heal, you nasty fuck.

The fact that he was reading her the Bible actually explains a lot of this to me.

I think the nursing home had a duty to protect their patient, but to set up video cameras seems over the line.

There is no winner here.

[ismnotwasm]

38. This story was posted the other day

One thing that needs to be remembered is that the woman could not indicate whether she was in pain or not. So "sex" whether with loving intent or not, is a violation, it is rape. Consent? What if she's in agony every single time and unable to communicate this?

Discomfort can be caused by something as unlikely as a tumor to something quite probable like a urinary tract infection-- Comatose patients often develop contractures, making what we would consider normal body postures very painful. this man was pleasing himself, and not thinking of what was best for this woman.


On edit; The other issue, the "privacy violation" is a bit more problematic for me. But LTC centers across the nation have used audio taping, and on occasion video taping to monitor abuse and neglect. There was one 20/20 expose a number of years back exposing horrible abuse using hidden cameras. Nursing homes have neglect almost by definition, rape and other atrocities are not that uncommon. I wonder what the policy of the LTC center was, or if they had one?

[Ian David]

43. I'm convinced now. It's rape. n/t

[Wilber_Stool]

45. Oops

wrong thread. Sorry.

[applegrove]

46. Gross.

[fascisthunter]

53. that's some creepy stuff.....

[Gwendolyn]

55. They'll probably get him on the "assault on an unconscious person' charge.

Even if the rape charge doesn't stick. There was a witness to him allegedly touching her inappropriately, who came forward following "loudness and abusiveness" to the staff.

But it's sad nonetheless. When a family member is in a comatose state, people often desperately want to believe that the patient is aware of loved ones. Sometimes staff encourage that belief, as offering some kind of comfort. Having been in that position, I could see where, if he loved her very much, he would be certain she was somehow cognizant of his presence. Perhaps his faith may have led him to believe that he could revive her that way.

Although it's creepy to the max, there may have been mitigating circumstances... and it seems strange that no one confronted him right at the beginning. The man may have just needed help.

[Ian David]

66. Sleeping Beauty and Snow White were both awakened by a kiss.

There may be some primal Joseph Campbell mythological thinking going on here.

Not that this would make it right.

[Gwendolyn]

73. Fairy tales can come true...

and all that. Maybe he did believe. Anyway, it's a nicer thought than the alternative!

(No one seemed to mind that similar scene in "The English Patient.") :shrug:

[alarimer]

56. I am not sure the video is admissable though.

I hope not, because this sets a bad precedent but the guy is a complete fucking scumbag. Too bad they couldn't have caught him legally however.

[alarimer]

59. Most people would be aghast at this if a complete stranger did it.

Why is it okay if it is his wife?

[Gwendolyn]

67. It's soooo not!

But people do all kinds of wacked things when they've got someone in long term care. Hospital staff knows this. Plus, prisons are burgeoning as it is. Why didn't someone smack him in the head the first time he was seen touching his wife, and send him for counseling, or to see his pastor?

[Ian David]

71. We'll have to wait and see if they DID warn him or not. n/t

[Ian David]

69. I was on the fence for a while, but I am now convinced that it is NOT okay even if it's his wife.nt

[NoGOPZone]

62. Never thought I'd see 'read Bible' and 'had sex with his comatose wife' in the same sentence nt

[Ian David]

68. I want to know if it was just the verses about how a wife should be subservient to her husband. n/t

[jannyk]

63. 59 and had sex every day - wow! n/t

[Rocknrule]

74. Palin would approve of this

since after all, he's raping her for Jesus

[leftofthedial]

80. preachers have been reading bibles to and fucking the gullible for centuries

how come there are no charges for that?

[endthewar]

89. WOW!

:nuke: :hide: :nuke:

[question everything]

81. What is really sickening are the comments to this story (nt)

[cobalt1999]

82. I don't want to have sex with my wife if she is even tired.

A yawn is a huge turn-off. A comatose wife can not be appealing at all. WTF is he thinking?

[Ian David]

94. Maybe...

Or...

What the Bible says about Women's Rights

Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Isaiah 3:12
As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians 14:34-36
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Ephesians 5:22-24
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Colossians 3:18
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.

1 Peter 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands.


More:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/womens_rights.html

[johnaries]

84. When someone is in a coma,

doctors recomend that you try to "get through" to the subconcious mind any way you can.

One of those ways is through physical contact.

IMHO, if he had just walked in and "gotten his jollies" and then walked out, then I would label him as a perv.

Considering the amount of time he spent trying to "get through to her" with other methods, it seems to me that he was just desperate and this was not an act of perversion but an act of desperation and love.

Of course, that is my opinion based on the limited information I have. I have not seen the videos. And the hospital employees should not have seen the videos without a warrant, either.

I am glad the hospital employees were vigilant to act when they thought abuse might have been a possibility. But it should have gone to a court to decide if it warranted such a blatant invasion of privacy.

[chupacabranation]

85. This is so icky in so many ways.

Just...ew.

[4lbs]

86. It seems everyone missed that the woman's sister, who is her legal guardian...

doesn't seem to have much of an issue with it.

In fact, her sister was actually upset that charges were brought against him, her brother-in-law.


So, that right there complicates things. What if her sister, WHO IS NOW HER LEGAL GUARDIAN, consents to him having sex with his wife, her sister?

[Ian David]

93. You mean, if her legal guardian is also her pimp, can she consent to rape on her behalf?

I would argue, "no."

However, I would also argue that this ambiguity in legality would be a mitigating factor for the husband, who can probably argue that he did not INTEND to commit rape. Unless this falls under "ignorance of the law is no excuse."

I predict an indictment by a grand jury, and that when he stands trial, the jury will be sympathetic enough to give him a light sentence, unless other factors we don't know yet come up.

[Lil Missy]

87. What. A. Fucking. Pig.

:puke:

[samuraiguppy]

90. gross

[LiberalFighter]

98. I doubt that Columbia County Prosecutors are that competent.

[LiberalFighter]

99. On the matter of privacy.

Does that also include the nurses? Do they have the same expectation of privacy as the spouse in a nursing home? Does that mean if a male nurse had sex with the patient they could not introduce video evidence?

[LiberalFighter]

100. On the matter of consent.

Posters here suggest that until she says no the husband can have sex with her. Does that still apply when the person does not have the ability to deny or give consent?

If a man tied up their wife and gagged her and then had sex with her would she still be providing consent?

[Ian David]

101. That's why you need a safeword or some kind of signal if you bind and gag someone. n/t

[LiberalFighter]

102. When it involves BDSM. Yes!

But when it doesn't involve BDSM then it is rape.