Cons want to throw out landmark achievement RE: Aboriginal issues

[HEyHEY]

http://www.cbc.ca/bc/story/bc_first-nations20060111.html?ref=rss

Fuckers. I think this accord has some problems, such as infrastructure for funding allocations. But it shouldn't be thrown out. But it's clear the cons have the same old racist "let em die slowly" approach to these issues. No surprise, they are always chumming around with Tom Flanagan.

[Spazito]

1. No surprise there, they are racist pigs, imo n/t

[HEyHEY]

2. Check it out....

Fresh off the wire... I can't recall the last time I saw a provincial Government get involved in a federal election like this.

CHRISTENSEN/KELOWNA ACCORD 12N/LESLIE/CKNW JAN112006

THE PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT IS CALLING ON THE FEDERAL CONSERVATIVE PARTY TO CLARIFY ITS POSITION ON THE KELOWNA ACCORD ON ABORIGINAL ISSUES.

TORY FINANCE CRITIC MONTE SOLBERG HAS CREATED A BIT OF A STORM BY SAYING THE TORIES WOULD NOT HONOUR THE FIVE BILLION DOLLAR ACCORD REACHED LAST FALL BETWEEN PREMIERS, PRIME MINISTER PAUL MARTIN AND FIRST NATIONS LEADERS.
B-C'S MINISTER OF ABORIGINAL RELATIONS AND RECONCILIATION TOM CHRISTENSEN WANTS SOME CLARIFICATION.

"so i think it's a very important accord, there's a great deal of work that has gone into that agreement and it is important that all the federal parties clarify their position on what is committed to in that accord and how we all move forward to improve the lot of aboriginal peoples in this country."

THE TORIES DID ISSUE A NEWS RELEASE TODAY SAYING IT SUPPORTS THE OBJECTIVES OF THE AGREEMENT, BUT COMPLAINING ABOUT A LACK OF FINANCIAL SPECIFICS...THE PENTICTON INDIAN BAND SAYS THE CONSERVATIVES HAVE DECLARED WAR ON FIRST NATIONS.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Spazito]

3. Whoa and wow, looks like Harper and his minions have opened

up a hornet's nest and I am glad. By their very response to this, it is clear they will wipe the agreement out and need to be hammered on it. Good for the Penticton band, I am glad they are speaking out loud and clear.

There isn't much I can say good about the current B.C. government but Campbell's commitment to resolving the issues in a concrete way is a good thing.

[Canadian_moderate]

9. Nice, you're showing your desperation

If all else fails, call them fascists and racists. Stick to the issues and critize their policies.

I've stated that I'll probably vote Conservative (in riding that will either go Liberal or NDP anyways) and I am certainly not a racist. The Conservative platform in this campaign has resonated with me more than any other party's platform. I've would like to think that they have decided to move to a more moderate form of conservatism.

I will never vote NDP and I'm sick and tired of the lame Liberals at this moment. They do not deserve my support.

My biggest issue is democratic reform and the Conservatives and NDP the biggest proponents of that. Maybe they can at least find common ground in that area where the Liberals will never go. No government should ever have a majority unless they have more than 50% of the federal vote. The plum patrionage appojntments have to stop some time. It's time to start electing more people and expanding our ballots to give us more say in matters.

[V. Kid]

14. Saying the party is racist is diffrent from saying that you are...

...racist. That said I think your ignorant, and if that's blunt, too bad.

I agree with you when it comes to your assesment of democratic reform, and the position of the Liberal Party in doing nothing about it annoys me to (which is an intresting subject as it'll probably hurt them and Canadian Unity in Quebec if the Bloc sweeps the area, but I digress), but the issue as it were is aboriginal rights. And the right in this country has consistently used anti-first nations sentiment to get votes. As Spatzio pointed out our provincial goverment used to do this all the time, they even had a referendum on first nations rights, a big no-no in a liberal democracy like ours. The BC Liberals, have only now have come around to what seems like a genuine position of reconciliation with the first nations in this province, after constnatly baiting them and playing to anti-first nations sentiments to gain votes (and just so you know you won't hear very much praise from me regarding BC's provincial goverment).

So anyways before I go off on too much of a tangent. I don't know how popular of a tactic using anti-native sentiment is in Ontar-i-a-r-i-o but it sure is in the west. If you do some research on the race in Skeena-Bulkley Valley in North Western BC you'll see just what I mean. Same thing when it comes to the candidates for the Conservative Party in Richmond East-Delta and West Vancouver-Sunshine Coast-Sea to Sky Country, who are both well known for their anti-aboriginal stances on issues.

So in conclusion this doesn't mean that every Conservative voter is racist, but it means that the Conservative Party is racist as it plays on anti-native sentiments to get votes and tolerates their candidates doing such things.

[Canadian_moderate]

16. No offence taken

One month ago I would never have expected myself to feel this way about things, but since my vote is pretty damn harmless, I've chosen not to support the Liberals as I usually have in the past couple of elections.

The anti-First Nations tactics are not really common in Ontario. I susp
Most "Conservatives" I know are not racists. I can't speak for the westerners, but Harper does not seem like a racist to me. I not that naive to know that there may be some racists and other radicals among them, but the same can be said of the Liberals and NDP.

BTW, I'm a strong proponent of SSM as well. I simply think that Harper won't go there. Anyways, the jurisdiction is primarily provincial and the Conservatives support greater provincial independence.

Canada is essentially a moderate-centrist country and democratic reform will likely create a future government that is more reflective of our values. The Conservatives would never be able to govern by majority if the seat are allocated by on proportion of the federal vote.

[V. Kid]

17. Sorry for the too bad...but I don't take kindly to party's playing with...

...minorities like tokens.

See it's not that I think Harper is even that racist, it's just that he tolerates it. I see why your not voting Liberal, and I see why your not voting NDP from our previous disagreements, it's just that I couldn't really bring myself to vote for the Conservatives with these things in mind. I'd consider it if they had a really good candidate, who would have to be somewhat progressive and red tory-ish, but then I wouldn't give them my vote if the candidate said something like "democratic values" allowing "these kinds of debates". As for SSM, I hear Harper is a libertarian not a social conservative. This is all well and good, but again, he tolerates some really odious views in his tent and then claims that he's being democratic. Democracies have limits, and certain things being done by majority vote aren't really democratic.

As for proportional representation, the Conservatives have better rhetoric than the Libs, and the one good thing about the Reeeeform Party was that they always talked about democratic reform, problem is once they get to the troff, I don't know that they'll follow through. I suppose one can only wait, but it doesn't seem likely. And intrestingly enough as a westerner I don't really support Harper's idea of Senate reform, I think it'll hurt the West's polictical power. If he starts appointing "elected senators", he'll just be re-enforcing a legislative body whose legitimacy is questionable at best due to its seat allocation, amongst other things. And that's one reform I know they'll carry through.

[HEyHEY]

18. Very well put

One of the best posts you've had in a long time.

[V. Kid]

21. thanks

[Spazito]

22. Well said, V. Kid, you expressed it much better than I

My first post to this was a visceral reaction to the news and your post expresses what I was thinking but did not verbalize (virtually speaking).

[Spazito]

15. LOL, ummm, the Reform party was and is racist in it's policies and

it's history. Continually changing their party name doesn't change their basic beliefs. They are anti-immigrant (code phrase to hide racist beliefs), anti First Nation settlements (code phrase for racist). The Reform party was formed by many racist, western separatists and they still remain in the party with many names, same beliefs.

Oh, and did I mention they are homophobic as well? LOL, guess I just did.

[Canadian_moderate]

10. How much funding and how many programs are needed?

The First Nations people of Canada have suffered as a result of policies and programs that have made them dependant on hand-outs and programs. As a result, their culture has suffered and their communities are plagued with social problems. How about we empower the First Nations people instead of keeping them dependant on our handouts?

[HEyHEY]

13. What needs to be done is a restructuring

of how money is distributed. Too often the cheque is cut and it ends there. We need to have strict accountability of where the money is going and how it's being used.

[iverglas]

19. to #10 and #13

To kill two birds with the same point. ;)

The First Nations people of Canada have suffered as a result of policies and programs that have made them dependant on hand-outs and programs.

I agree, but I think we'd be talking about different things.

The policies and programs I'd be talking about would be things like residential schools -- policies that destroyed families and communities, and were intended to, and did, bring cultures to the brink of disappearance. Individuals do not thrive and succeed in the absence of a family, a community and a culture.

And also things like the criminal justice system, when it's used, as it has been in the experience of the First Nations, to address behaviours and problems that arise from social problems caused by things like residential school policies. And that deprive individuals of their family, community and culture ... and vice versa.

I think that -- and not the handouts, e.g. -- are why they became dependent on handouts.


We need to have strict accountability of where the money is going and how it's being used.

My version: the First Nations need to have strict accountability. "We" aren't the ones suffering from the misuse and mismanagement. Paternalistic it may sound, but I don't see our authority in this matter as deriving from our grip on the purse strings, I see it as deriving from our responsibility for individuals and groups who are disadvantaged and vulnerable. It isn't "right" to allow such individuals and groups to be exploited by corrupt or incompetent individuals in authority, even those of their own choosing. Fighting words, I know, but I like them better than saying "it's our money so what we say goes", or "do what you like and don't blame us, because you're the ones who got what you asked for".

I know -- you weren't saying that, you were using a common turn of phrase and not meaning to be taken literally. (Really; no sarcasm smileyface.) I just thought I'd exploit the opening. ;)

[HEyHEY]

20. I always hear the higher-ups in the bands are skimming money

But have never actually read concrete proof of that. One thing's for sure, before the cheques start flowing a serious plan has to be worked out. At the first ministers' conference one of the native leaders (I can't remember who) even said "all the money for healthcare was great, but the means to put it to use wasn't, and that's a problem." (Paraphrased)

Either way, it's time Canada took the first nations issue seriously and treated it as a priority.
I live (Until Saturday) in the Okanagan. Every time I go to court there is one member of the local band after another on charges. There is an obvious social malfunction which, as you mentioned, is the fault of Europeans. So I see it as our responsibility to work with first nations to solve it.
Too bad the cons don't see it that way. What would a blowhard like Myron THompson do if a bunch of "Furriners" kicked him of his land and outlawed his beliefs...???

YEap, he'd freak out. But they can't seem to grasp that is what was done.

[Swede]

4. Harper just couldn't keep his hand over enough mouths.

Try as hard as he likes,there are too many bigots left in the Conservative party.

[HEyHEY]

5. yeah, we knew this was going to happen

Just a matter of time

[Mother Jones]

6. Pardon my ignorance on the topic but...

Is it possible for this to translate into lost seats?

[HEyHEY]

7. Hard to say

I don't think the Native vote is that big. But, it could sway fencesitters to go Lib

[MrPrax]

11. No...

If anything, tossing the agreement, might score a few points in the West, where aboriginal issues are front burner in some locales...lots of micromanagement issues like casino smoking rights, river water levels, zoning with urban reserves, provincial tax issues, etc.

Funny how Solberg is a racist according to a certain someone...but I distinctly remember an Ontario Liberal Premier jumping the gun and forcing a n evacuation of a northern reserve over the 'lack of federal' attention.

Apparantly, aboriginal failures easily traceable to the natural governing party (like the Kyoto failure), are issues that the Liberals can do no wrong with...and if you suggest otherwise, yer probably Belsen camp guard. :eyes:

[HEyHEY]

12. Uh, if you're refering to me

I think it's been made clear I'm not a Liberal.

"If anything, tossing the agreement, might score a few points in the West, where aboriginal issues are front burner in some locales"

Any western ridings that would score points in, are likely already voting Cons.

"Funny how Solberg is a racist according to a certain someone...but I distinctly remember an Ontario Liberal Premier jumping the gun and forcing a n evacuation of a northern reserve over the 'lack of federal' attention."

Uh, how is that racism? That's just poor planning. The feds didn't pay attention to what was going on due to typical red tape bullshit.

"Apparantly, aboriginal failures easily traceable to the natural governing party (like the Kyoto failure), are issues that the Liberals can do no wrong with...and if you suggest otherwise, yer probably Belsen camp guard."

The liberals do wrong on plenty of issues. But in this case every Canadian government has fucked up.

[AX10]

8. How will translate in the election?

A loss of a few seats for the Cons I hope. :shrug:

[V. Kid]

24. In ridings where the native population is large...

...the Cons usually aren't in contention. In ridings where they are, the native vote, as it were will go largely to the Liberals, with a few exceptions where it will go NDP. This is not new, it might motivate people though. As for the rest of the population, it might undercut Harper's position on being moderate, on being willing to clean up corruption. He's treading a dangerous line.

[V. Kid]

23. Sto:lo nation wants Harper to dumb Cummins for a similar reason...

...intrestingly Cummins is one of those MP's who play on anti-native sentiments by being against "racial quotas" and what not in fishing. Anyhow, apparently he was:

“John Cummins was convicted in a Surrey Provincial Court by Judge Thomas on January 26, 1998 for breaking Canada’s fishery law. Stephen Harper needs to understand that fishery offences are now criminal offences”, says Ernie Crey, a spokesman for the Sto:lo Tribal Council, in a press release distributed this morning by the Aggasiz-based council.

“For a decade now, MP John Cummins has been at the centre of the orchestration illegal commercial fishing on the Fraser River. What’s more, he stands convicted for his deeds. Notwithstanding these convictions, Stephen Harper has never called Cummins to account. Why is it alright for Harper to expel one candidate for alleged wrong-doing, while allowing another candidate convicted for breaking the law to remain in the race? If this is Stephen Harper’s notion of fair play, I fear for the future,” Crey says in the release.

http://thetyee.ca/electioncentral/2006/01/13/stolo-use-zeisman-to-smack-cummins/

[Spazito]

25. That is interesting, the spokesperson for the Sto:lo has a very

good point. Why the double standard? Cummins has actually been convicted, Zeisman only charged yet Zeisman is dumped, Cummins is still held in good standing. Good for Ernie Crey for pointing this out, I hadn't thought of this until this post and he is right on point.