Did anyone see the story yesterday on Global that ex-Lib Parrish is

[Hoping4Change]

coaching a Tory candiate in Hamilton. Parrish is coaching him how to make inroads into the ethnic vote. I find it staggering that Mrs AntiBUSH writ large is coaching a neocon. That she hates Martin for good reason is understandable. But throwing her support to Bush asswipes? Gimme me a break. :wtf:

[Minstrel Boy]

1. Seems like a lot of former Chretienites doing the same

Warren Kinsella says he's advising friends in both the NDP and the Conservatives. The venon on his blog for Martin is incredible. Sheila Copps has endorsed the NDP candidate in her old riding, and has also said she's given advise to Conservatives.

The Martin team made a lot of enemies when they went up against Chretien and alienated his side. This is considered payback. Before you look to blame the NDP for exploiting the Liberals' failures, consider the damage the internal warfare has done to the Liberal cause.

[glarius]

2. I find it ALL disgusting.....The ex-Liberals like Copps, Kinsella and

Parrish and also Jack Layton....All of them are putting their own personal reasons, whether revenge or power (Layton) ahead of what's good for Canada...

[Minstrel Boy]

3. Ya gotta love the irony

of a Liberal complaining that the NDP is more interested in power than what's best for Canada.

Well, at least I do.

[Darth_Kitten]

4. Copps writes regularly for right wing newspapers....

You don't do things like this to your own party.

As for Layton, what was he doing getting private healthcare? The leader of the party that usually stands up for universal healthcare is a bit of a hypocrite.

I'm voting Liberal, I may not care too much for Martin but I'm no sellout.

[Minstrel Boy]

5. Layton explained himself.

He was referred there by his physician and it was covered by OHIP. It didn't cross his mind that it was private, it was integrated into the public system. And it was years ago, before public health care was threatened as it is today.

If that's the best the Liberal attack dogs have, they'll have fun chasing their own tails after the election.

[iverglas]

10. I couldn't believe that one

My Toronto brother had his hernia done there last year, my London uncle a couple of years ago ...

Even if Shouldice *were* a private for-profit operation, it is NOT the fault of the PATIENT if the service is not provided by a public hospital, if the patient is referred there within the public plan and the service is paid for by the public plan.

Morgentaler and other abortion clinics are an example of that happening. Public hospitals across Canada simply will not provide adequate abortion services. Abortion clinics are mostly private and for-profit, but fees are fully covered by OHIP. It is not women's fault that, for instance, Mike Harris shut down the public hospital in Pembroke leaving the Roman Catholic hospital as the only one the community has.

I go to a non-profit community health centre, funded by OHIP and operated by a community board, for primary care. The doctors are on salary, not fee-for-service, i.e. are not operating a business as a doctor in private practice is. It isn't my neighbours' fault that the health centres can't meet demand and they have to go to a private, for-profit medical practice to see a doctor.

I'm not as familiar with Martin's situation:
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/05/07/canada/Martindoctor_040507

It appears to be quite similar: his health care is paid for by the Quebec plan.

The problem in Quebec is that the provincial government has been allowing growing numbers of private "clinics" to operate. Someone who used to post here (a USAmerican with a Cdn wife, living in Montreal) said his wife worked in a physiotherapy business -- the only accurate word -- that provided services to people for cash who should have been getting them under the plan. That is flat out illegal. So might some of the things done by Martin's "clinic"; I don't know:

The company's web site, lists its 2003 revenue as $53 million and says it provides health care to some of the country's largest corporations. It also operates a chain of private MRI clinics.

MRIs that are medically necessary MAY NOT be provided for cash in Canada. Businesses like this may operate to provide services to insurance companies and employers, for instance, but not to provide medically necessary services directly to patients. When I was under the impression that I might have to wait 14 months for cataract surgery (it turned out that I waited about 5 weeks from referral to surgery), I looked into Quebec, and sure enough, there are private businesses that provide cataract surgery for cash. Quebec has been totally irresponsible in this respect, and that's pretty much why the health care system is now under threat.

Anyhow ... funny how it wasn't Jack Layton attacking Martin ...

"The hypocrisy of these guys is absolutely breathtaking," said Conservative leader Stephen Harper.

... New Democrat MP Bill Blaikie says the issue is the fact that private clinics are flourishing.

That was last spring. Martin on The National last week:
http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/yourview/your_turn_liberal.html

Shazia Teja (Guelph, Ontario): ... I understand, as do many Canadians, that your physician runs a private clinic. ...

(By the way, that looks to me like another of those funny questions. My physician might run a brothel in her spare time; what's that got to do with me? -- as Martin said about his physician's spare time. If the questioner wanted to know about Martin's health care, and not just plant a nasty idea in people's mind, why not ask about it?)

Paul Martin: The doctor's office is a private office. When you go to a doctor, that's a private office. He runs it as a private office. When I go to my doctor, I go in to a private office. When I get my health care, I pay with my health-care card, my medicare card. I do not go to a private clinic any more than any other Canadian. These are open. Anyone can walk in, ...

I find Martin's description basically accurate, I have no reason to disbelieve what he says about his own health care (although I kind of imagine he gets pretty prompt service - and I wouldn't really want it otherwise for the head of government), and I find the Conservatives' efforts in this regard extremely distasteful.

[Pierre Trudeau]

6. Layton wasn't getting private healthcare

Come on man, this has already been debunked. He had an operation at Shouldice Hospital which is part of the public health care system. Just because it began as a private clinic doesn't mean you get "private healthcare" there.

[Darth_Kitten]

7. I'm not a man....

And I would save all the energy to debunking the Conservatives. :)

[Pierre Trudeau]

8. my apologies

I meant it as a colloquial "hey my friend", I didn't mean to imply that you were saddled with the dreaded Y chromosome. :)

[Monkeybumper]

9. I guess Jack never saw the sign

For 30 yrs I drove past Shouldice Hospital and the sign read ... PRIVATE HOSPITAL quiet please.
I guess Jack just missed it

[iverglas]

11. and now

your point was?

[Vote NDP]

12. :-)

For once, Mr. Trudeau, your voice is not filling the air with worthless fuddle-duddle.