If the Conservatives win, will the left unite?

[Harper_is_Bush]

I think a serious discussion should take place about a friendly takeover of the NDP by the Liberals, akin to the takeover of the PC's by the Canadian Alliance.

It seems with the polarization that's prevelant, we're headed in a two-party system.

Rightwingers would not stand a chance in this nation if the left united.

[Telly Savalas]

1. Probably not

But if the Liberals get their shit together after a hypothetical Tory victory, then in all likelihood it wouldn't take too long for them to win back the support they've bled to the Cons in the last 8 weeks. Harper will help with this effort by "governing" the country.

If the Cons numbers are held below 30%, then the rightwingers would not stand a chance in any case.

[Minstrel Boy]

2. "friendly takeover"

You mean, like the friendship you've shown?

"left unite"

You mean, leftists like Tom Wappel and John Manley?

[CHIMO]

3. It's Already United

It's just that some don't really know a corporation from a voter.

Are you suggesting some more dirty tricks. Maybe that fellow campaigning for the libs, I think his name is David O?

Or are you suggesting that JC come back and do the same type of act that he did on Turner?

With the rump that is left (sic) in the party I suppose anything is possible.

[Harper_is_Bush]

4. I'm suggesting that the NDP face the fact

that they'll never score more than about 20 seats and that they're causing a rightwing government to take power.

Join with the Liberals and a united left can fight for progressive values.

[CHIMO]

6. How'd

You get such a good crystal ball.

Have the Liberals ever advocated getting out of NATO?

Where is Sheila Copps? Where is C. Parish? Where is JC in this campaign?

Where do you think the Power Corp. sits in this campaign?

Why don't you use your head a bit. It's useful when you use it. It's more than just an echo chamber if one tries.

[Harper_is_Bush]

7. Save the nonsensical

parade of cynical, pointless questions. Thanks.

[CHIMO]

8. You Are

Most welcome.

Good manners can go a long way.

[Minstrel Boy]

9. The sentiments you express so arrogantly

represent a goodly percent of what I hate about the Liberal Party. Though there's so much more.

Reform/Alliance represented a rift in the PCs that's only about 15 years old. The CCF/NDP is not a Liberal splinter, and the Liberal is not recognizably left from where I stand.

[AX10]

15. The "Nader Effect".

Sadly, what happened to we Americans six years ago is going to happen to Canada now.

[iverglas]

18. I see no evidence

-- despite your choice of hanging around the Canada forum -- that you have learned anything beyond the nothing you already knew about Canadian politics.

The "Nader Effect".
Sadly, what happened to we Americans six years ago is going to happen to Canada now.

No one who knew thing one about Canadian politics would consider saying such a laughably uninformed and unreasonable thing.

Go blame Nader for the Democratic Party's problems if you like, not that it would be much more informed or reasonable to do that.

Your purpose here appears to be the same as the purpose of any of the Liberal shills in the vicinity. The spreading of disinformation and innuendo are what come to mind.

Not seeing any other, myself, but always open to suggestions.

[ClusterFreak]

27. On the surface, it may look that way to an outside observer....

...but the NDP is a well-established party and political voice here in Canada. It's kind of like comparing apples and oranges, IMO. The point you seem to want to make is that we are splitting the vote on the left, which is true. I disagree however that what is happening here is anything like the Nader Effect.

And one other thing....you are welcome to hang around the Canada forum all you want. We liberal shills have to stick together.;-)

[tuvor]

28. I should SAY he's welcome to hang around.

I totally agree with you, CSL. DU is mainly an American board. We Canadians are the guests here, as far as I'm concerned.

AX10, please feel free to hang around on this forum, and thanks for being interested in what's going on up north. I've learned so much from you guys, I'd say it's only fair.

[ClusterFreak]

29. I echo that in spades! n/t

[glarius]

30. You are so right.....We Canadians have been made to feel so welcome

and our participation has never been regarded by them as anything but the interest of friendly neighbours. I'm sure there have been times when some of us have said things that have shown we are not completely up on all things American.

[GirlinContempt]

21. Thats the stupidest thing I've ever read

The NDP has historically gained more than 20 seats, and even if you took those '20 seats' and gave them to the libs, according to the polls right now, you'd end up with the same con. minority we're looking at RIGHT NOW.

If the liberals holding more seats in a minority government is somehow going to stop the cons from holding the majority of power, I'd like to know how. Because it doesn't work that way.

The liberals aren't left. They're middle of the road nothings who need people on the left and the right to spur them in to action. The real problem here is the inequality of our ridings and the results that gets us, not the NDP as a party.

Edited: Said cons instead of libs

[ghostsofgiants]

24. Yeah, if the Conservatives win, it's all because of the NDP

:eyes:

Nevermind the fact that the Liberals completely fucked up whatever claims to legitimacy they might have had. If the Conservatives do get in, as far as I'm concerned, it's ALL on the Liberals' heads. Their party fucked up, their party doesn't deserve my vote.

[GirlinContempt]

25. OK I still can't get over this

The Liberals are polling at around 85 seats

the NDP around 30

And the cons around 135

85+30=115

115=less than 135. Combining would make such a HUGE difference :eyes: Oh wait, it would! You'd probably lose a couple of seats because of the lefties that will never no matter what vote liberal, they'll go indie

[MrPrax]

31. Ditto...

I would no more vote liberal than I would root for the Toronto Maple Laffs...it's a DNA thing.

And yeah, so what at this point if they do combine, if anything it would be simply adding greater legitimacy to a Con mandate and allow the BQ a more prominent role.

At least with 2 separate English parties, it gives the illusion of diversity in pluralism at the federal level, which can be mobilized for defeating any Harper Hijinx.

Oh those Liberals make me mad...why don't you join the NDP?

I mean, Tommy is more popular than that authoritarian pompous clown they passed off as a hippy 'flower child' that put TANKS in the capital.

Grrrrr.....

[HEyHEY]

34. Sounds like Hitler's takeover of Austria

[ClusterFreak]

5. Maybe it's time to take a look at something like that.

Good point. Take the best principles of both parties, meld them together. I'm a small "l" liberal, and I can certainly appreciate the commitment to social equality espoused by the NDP. Worth a look.;-)

[daleo]

10. First, let the Conservatives fly apart again.

Which is extremely likely, given that the Alberta wing will begin crying about how tepid Conservatives are in other provinces almost immediately. There will be a Reform Party II, in no time.

[Harper_is_Bush]

11. He he. Nice analysis. And quite possibly true.

At the very least, Canadians will get the display of a Conservative government working alongside a Bush government. After watching Harper lick Bushs boots, they will understand what Martin has been talking about.

How long before Stephen Harper is accusing Liberals of not caring about our security because Liberals are critisizing a Conservative agreement with Bush on Missile Defense? Probably about this time next year.

[tuvor]

12. You're forgetting the Bloc

No two-party system as long as they're as powerful as they are.

[Harper_is_Bush]

14. Ah yes, I am forgetting them. n/t

[IntravenousDemilo]

13. A "friendly takeover" akin to WHAT?!

The Alliance takeover of the Progressive Conservative party was anything but friendly. It was a mugging. I was there and witnessed it along with David Orchard.

[Canadian_moderate]

16. Why should they unite?

At least they can hope to exert enough influence in the next parliament to try to move to a democrtic system with proportional representation and more accountability. Canada governments need more checks and balances to ensure that the will of the people is considered by parliament. No party, whether Liberal, Conservative or NDP deserves to have a majority with anything less than 50% of the national vote.

We all know that the Liberals are not interested in change a system that has worked so well for them. Unfortunately all parties that attain power seem to share that perspective once they're in the same position.

In short, we need democratic reform and not more of the same old bull shit. If the NDP has 20% of the vote, they should have 20% of the federal MPs.

[Minstrel Boy]

17. The Liberals and the Conservatives

ought to close the deal and unite the right.

From here, Jan 6, on Paul Martin's "Mike Harris Liberals":

Paul Martin just said in Whitby Canadians should be scared of politicians with close links to former Conservative Premier Mike Harris.

Okay.

How about "scary" Belinda Stronach - Mike Harris' choice for Prime Minister?

"A person with vision, a person with experience, a person with courage, a person who has the ideas, and a person who has the conviction that can help Canada recover to be the number one country in the world." - Mike Harris nominating Belinda Stronach for CPC Leader, Toronto Sun, January 29, 2004

"I believe Harris made the most significant mark on Ontario and I did go to him seeking advice." - Belinda Stronach, Toronto Star, January 25, 2004

How about "scary" Scott Brison Liberal candidate for Kings-Hants?

"Tax reduction and significant tax cuts resonate significantly with Canadians as do messages from governments that keep their word. Mike Harris and Ralph Klein have remained consistent in keeping their word and providing meaningful tax relief to Canadians." - Scott Brison, House of Commons, June 10, 1999

How about "scary" Keith Martin Liberal candidate for Esquimalt--Juan de Fuca?

"Premier Klein and Premier Harris are trying to fix the publicly funded health care system. This government has been gutting it." - Keith Martin, November 19. 1999

How about "scary" Gary Carr Liberal candidate for Halton?

Oakville South MPP Gary Carr says that when he talks about Progressive Conservative Leader Mike Harris' "common sense revolution" he's not just mouthing the party line. - Toronto Star, May 23, 1995

[best left blank]

19. The left is united...

It's called the NDP.

[Wabbajack]

20. Well I'm an American

but it seems to me the solution is IRV like in Austraila. That would kill the 'tories' in my opinion.

[ghostsofgiants]

23. Actually electoral groups (and parties interested in electoral reform)...

Are proposing a mix member proportional system.

[GirlinContempt]

22. Two party systems are crap

[Ron Mexico]

26. NDP supporters would skin Jack Layton alive and

dip his writhing carcass in pickle brine for uniting with the liberal party. No chance without serious changes in the party.

In the meantime, they'll get 20-23 seats, claim again that they're building a base, and act as if they've won something while watching Harper move his stuff into Martin's office. Layton is like Canada's Nader.

[shadowlight]

32. No!

I believe instant runoff voting is the answer.
It makes no sense that someone with 34%, or less, of the vote wins.

[HEyHEY]

33. If there's a shortage of rational thought, yes