Figured I might as well start a thread on the NEW cabinet....

[Spazito]

Here is a link to CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/martin_paul/cabinet2004.html

Lists them all in their various portfolios.

I thought they were interesting picks in some places, for example, Ken Dryden in Social Development, I think that is a good spot for him.

[Parrcrow]

1. Hi Spazito!

I'm glad to see that he's apparently trying to make peace in the party and concentrate on social issues.

[Spazito]

2. Hey Parrcrow!

I agree, he seems to have leaned left on some of his picks which leads me to believe he and the NDP will be working together on the social agenda! I sure hope so!

[Career Prole]

3. Oops...wrong country!

I should have realized it from all the smiling faces. :D
I'll just be gettin' me coat, then! :hi:

[Parrcrow]

4. Naw, Stay!!

Be a cyber-Canadian!

no frostbite that way.

[Career Prole]

13. Will I have to be a Blue Jays fan?

I think that's what's tying up my visa application. :D

[Parrcrow]

24. the expos are alright. They'll be in Puerto Rico soon enough anyway

[Career Prole]

25. Okay! That'll work!

The Pedro connection's enough. :D

[Spazito]

5. LOL

Welcome back anytime!

[Minstrel Boy]

6. As Liberal cabinets go,

I've seen worse. Martin made some cleaver choices for a minority parliament, and to set up the next election. I don't think this team is intended to govern for very long.

[Spazito]

7. I give it 18 months, time for all parties to build up their "war chests"..

again. I am already watching for faux conservative "faux pas" to be used then, lol.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

8. Carolyn Bennett is a Minister?

I thought she was supposed to be in Martin's bad books because of her remarks about the US last year. Or am I confusing her with someone else?

I just remember reading an article saying that Bennett would have no chance of promotion under a Martin government. :shrug:


ON EDIT: OK, I see that I confused her with Carolyn Parrish. My apologies. I'm an outsider looking in on Canadian politics and sometimes I get one or two of the names mixed up

[Screaming Lord Byron]

9. The crucial question now is - What will David Anderson do?

He was a key Martin supporter, and now he's been ejected from cabinet. What will he do (if anything)?

[iverglas]

10. okay, no time ...

I've been too busy-busy to figure out this cabinet stuff yet. (For anyone who wants to sympathize with me, part of what I'm doing is reading the full coroner's report on the Montreal Massacre.)

So what west coaster will explain Ujjal Dosanjh for me?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/martin_paul/cabinet2004.html#dosanjh

Back during his brief tenure in the leadership/premiership in BC, I'd surfed around a bit looking at his background, and he seemed solid. Not an unsophisticated and misguidedly grateful new Canadian, and not a Basi's Boy type -- not an immigrant who came to Canada and either mistook which side his bread was buttered on, or figured out exactly which side his bread was buttered on, and in either case headed for the great mother ship, the Liberal Party, as so many do. (Including a bloody lot of my own clients -- me, the NDP stalwart, and erstwhile candidate, to whom they owed their firstborn daughters.)

He'd seemed to me, looking in at BC provincial politics from the outside and just knowing what I read about his personal background, to be an honest to goodness social democrat.

And then came the appointment to run as a Liberal, from the hand of the great leader Paul Martin himself. What gave?



(Btw, and entirely off point, I was just thinking the other night ... if we take the "Buck Fush" model and apply it to Paul ... we get the rather more amusing "Muck Fartin". haha.)

[Spazito]

11. Dosanjh is a good man....

and definitely left on the political spectrum. He was the only one left out of the corrupt Clark NDP government that I still respect. I was glad to see him jump to the federal Liberal party (I am a Liberal supporter)because it will help them lean more left I hope.


LOL on the Muck Fartin!

[iverglas]

12. okay, good answer

for a Liberal. Like I wanted an answer from a Liberal!

Yeah, if all us social democrats just joined the Liberal Party, the Liberal Party would suddenly become a social democrat party, and life would be beautiful.

At least that's what the obvious Martinite boyfriend of one of my best friends spend an entire dinner party trying to persuade us of, back before Martin "won" the party leadership.

Sadly, I don't see much of that friend these days ...

Jean Chrétien was much more perspicacious and straightforward.

When I cornered him by an elevator one day before he was leader, and stuck out my hand and said "Hi! I'm the NDP candidate in _______!" he said, without skipping a beat, "You're hoping John Turner wins!" Got it in one, Jean. Never let the Liberal Party's façade of decency deceive ya, that's the true social democrat's motto.

Well, John Turner won, and the great Canadian electorate, in its seemingly bottomless willingness to be deceived, elected him. And here we go again.

[Spazito]

14. Geez, next time, if you specify no Liberals need answer, it might help...

I voted NDP this last election to try and get the faux conservative out of my riding and I live in the province that he served while in government so I figured that I could answer with some knowledge, sorry about that.

[iverglas]

15. oh well

DU just doesn't offer that little tongue-in-cheek stupidface icon yet.

I'll just have to keep offering up my own, and recommending that people store them up for use when in doubt.

;^) ;^) ;^) ;^) ;^)

Yes, my remark that if I'd wanted an answer from a Liberal, I'd have asked for one was ... drumroll ... tongue in cheek. (I sometimes hope that exclamation marks will offer the needed assistance.)

Nonetheless, you know that your gladness at having Dosanjh in the Liberal fold doesn't answer my question of why he's there. You like his treason -- it's in your interests as a Liberal, specifically in terms of enhancing the Liberal Party's chances of winning elections. Since the Liberal Party's winning of elections is not in my interests, as an NDPer *and* a Canadian, or in the interests of the country, in my opinion, I'll obviously not share that glee.

C'mon; if you have to steal New Democrats to shift the Liberals to the left, what does that tell us?!

And more to the point, exactly how likely is that to happen, or to happen to any degree farther than is necessary for the Liberals to win the next election?

Do I like social democracy being used as window-dressing to keep non-social democrats in power? Of course not. And do I see the annointing and embracing of Dosanjh as anything but window-dressing? I don't have to say it, do I?

[Spazito]

16. Here is why he went to the Liberals, his own words...

The former premier jumped ship to run as a Liberal in the election and said his new party is the only option for those who want to defeat the Conservatives.

"A vote for the NDP is essentially a vote for (Conservative Leader) Stephen Harper," Dosanjh told a news conference.

"A vote for (NDP Leader) Jack Layton is a whispered vote. It's essentially a vote that will have no strength, it will weaken a progressive government in this country.

"One has to decide whether you shout from the sidelines or you get into the real act and make sure there's a difference in the kind of government we have in this country."


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2004/05/11/455361-cp.html

My take on it: He was disgusted by the actions of his own Provincial party, the B.C. NDP Party, he played a big part in getting rid of the slime bag Clark and, because he served in the Clark government, he would have a hard time getting re-elected as a NDP rep again.

I find your use of the word "steal" interesting. Dosanjh has free will and it seems his free will led him to the Liberals.

I guess, by your scale, Dosanjh is not a social democrat, oh well, I suspect he will survive regardless. (Tongue in cheek)

[iverglas]

17. tsk tsk

For a BC Liberal to call a BC NDP provincial premier a slime bag ... tsk tsk. (Not basing it on allegations subsequently tossed out of court, are we?)

I mean, we do know that Basi's Boys are Liberals ... and that the cabinet ministers whose offices were raided by the RCMP in some sort of drugs and/or corruption investigation are Liberals ... and the house being used as a marijuana grow house (I read "organized crime" in that, myself) belongs to that Liberal Basi fellow ...

And we do know about Mr. Martin's self-serving, less-than-transparent antics while he was Minister of Finance ...

And heavens, was it the NDP that shelled out all that money to its chums in Quebec? (Too bad somebody noticed, or does any of us imagine that a hefty chunk of it was *not* going to be kicked back to the Liberal Party?) Oh, I know, that isn't BC. It's just that when I see a Liberal calling somebody else ... anybody else ... "corrupt", I just see


http://users.rcn.com/rostmd/winace/pics/

;)

And when I see Dosanjh saying the things you quoted, I see delusion and/or deception, of the same kind I have long seen among some Quebec Liberals (like, say, Warren Allmand, whose unquestionably high standards didn't have much effect on much of anything), and just can't see much of anything else.

I've got nothing against a bit of strategic voting when it's called for -- like my one and only ever in history Liberal vote, in the last Ontario election. But did I vote Liberal in the federal? Not on yr life. I voted NDP, and thanks to a whole lot of other people who were neither deluded nor dishonest, I now have an NDP MP, and Canada has one more of 'em. And that's a good thing.

Heck, even Flora MacDonald, that fine old red tory who, when asked by Brian Mulroney to jump, in her portfolio as Immigration Minister, said "how high?", recommended voting NDP in a riding where the NDP had a wonderful winning candidate this time around. She may not have recommended voting NDP everywhere, but in a winnable riding where the race was between a Martinite Liberal and Ed Broadbent, she did.

Strategic running -- actually becoming part of one enemy to defeat another? That calls for big-time delusion. Or deception. We shall see.

[Spazito]

18. I was a Provincial NDP supporter, for many years, until it became time...

to vote on a second term for the NDP Clark government. There was no way in hell I would vote for them. They betrayed all NDP supporters that's why, in the last Provincial election, they won.......2, count em, 2 seats.

I actually worked with the provincial NDP in education, working with others to draft policy proposals in Gender Equity and for Students with special needs so please don't lecture me on what I base my "slimeball" comment on re Clark.


If the B.C. Provincial NDP party ever goes back to it's REAL roots, I will vote for them again.

[iverglas]

19. it's an interesting conundrum

Many people felt equally betrayed by the Rae NDP govt. in Ontario. (And personally, I had never liked Rae in the first place.)

So they fixed his wagon -- they voted for the Harris Tories.

Yup, that fixed the NDP well and good ... and also people with disabilities, single mothers and their kids, teachers and students, hospital workers and patients, women victims of violence, small inner-city businesspeople and landlords (the ones whose low-income customers and tenants could no longer pay the price of their goods and services), and just about anybody else you could name who didn't have a board of directors seat to offer Mr. Harris when he was finished pooping in the public sandbox.

It's funny, to me, how easy it appears to be to hold one's nose and vote against something/someone, even when it means voting for something/someone distasteful ... and yet how hard it is to do it the other way around. Funny how some expect perfection from one party/person, and when they don't get it, turn around and vote for something not just imperfect, but monstrous.

Since you've said you're a Liberal, that doesn't apply to you, I guess. You didn't turn your back on your own party when it disappointed you, you just went back to your own roots.

Me, I qualify for one of those "Don't blame me"-type bumper stickers: I disliked Bob Rae, and I was sorely disappointed in his government, but that just didn't strike me as good reason to vote for either of the scummy alternatives. Or, for that matter, to blame the NDP for having to deal with what those scummy alternatives had got up to, and lied about, while they were in power.

Seriously, any time you want to specify what the basis for the slime allegation is, I'm listening.


If the B.C. Provincial NDP party ever goes back to it's REAL roots, I will vote for them again.

And if it doesn't ... you'll vote for the blatantly and appallingly corrupt BC Liberal Party again?

[Spazito]

20. I see you now have the Liberals in so it seems that some Ontario...

NDP still have not forgiven the provincial NDP party for Rae. I wonder if those people are still waiting for some kind of change in the Ontario Provincial NDP party before they return?

[iverglas]

21. nah

... it seems that some Ontario NDP still have not forgiven the provincial NDP party for Rae. I wonder if those people are still waiting for some kind of change in the Ontario Provincial NDP party before they return?

I don't think we can assume that everyone who voted in the election won by the Rae NDP was "NDP", right? I mean, I voted for the McGuinty Liberals, and I sure as hell ain't "Liberal". I doubt there are very many actual NDPers who have voted other than NDP -- other than for strategic anti-tory reasons -- in any election since the one he went down in.

Yikes, would you believe it? I'm not alone in my less than warm feelings for Dosanjh ... and others.

http://www.straight.com/content.cfm?id=3042

Former federal New Democratic Party leader Audrey McLaughlin has slammed former NDP premier Ujjal Dosanjh for becoming a Paul Martin federal Liberal candidate in the June 28 election.

In a personal letter hand-delivered to Dosanjh and obtained exclusively by the Georgia Straight, McLaughlin accuses Dosanjh of betraying his own NDP supporters for "prospective personal gain".

"... You have been quoted as saying it is about 'principle' not party. This is ridiculous in your case, just be honest and state that you have taken this decision for prospective personal gain."

Yeah, that was my first guess.

McLaughlin says Dosanjh's decision will harm voter participation by adding to the negative perception of politicians.

"Your choice has ramifications beyond British Columbia and simply reinforces many Canadians <sic> view that politicians are only in politics for themselves, not the country nor even regional interest," McLaughlin wrote.

I was never a huge fan of Audrey's either, but naked personal ambition didn't seem to be one of her weaknesses. It's certainly a quality often found among Liberals, though.

And heh heh; somebody else we know agrees with me:
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=35&t=000125

Dosanjh wasn't alone, of course. Just alone in pulling it off. Dave Haggard http://www.straight.com/content.cfm?id=2646 went down to shameful defeat in his BC riding, ditto Chris Axworthy in Saskatchewan. And the excellent Libby Davies dealt decisively with the fourth member of what has been referred to as the coven, Shirley Chan.

Not *everybody* likes a sell-out.

[Spazito]

22. Okay, judge him as a sell-out, maybe he was always a Federal...

Liberal and a Provincial NDP supporter, it does happen, I didn't read what his federal party affiliation historically so who knows. Anyway, I am glad you are happy with your vote as am I, that's what counts.

[Hand]

30. One good thing about Dosanjh...

...is that he majorly pissed off H*rp*r today just by getting appointed. The NeoCon shadow cabinet looks like the usual grotesquerie, including Belinda Stronach (!) as somedamthingoranother critic.

:hi:

[HEyHEY]

23. OOOOO 8 members for Western Canada - what a crock

Is that supposed to make us feel special?

[LibertyorDeath]

26. Interesting

Ujjal Dosanjh

Portfolio:
Minister of Health

[ilovenicepeople]

27. HOWDY fellow BCers!

:hi: my 2cents worth:Ujj is a sellout,Bryan Adams sucks(sucks well)and quit calling it "BC Bud" and I will stop calling it "American coke"

[LibertyorDeath]

29. Hey ilovenicepeople too!

:hi:

Bryan Adams sucks lets count the ways!

[arikara]

28. I wonder why David Anderson lost his portfolio

The BC Liberals were positively gleeful this morning on CBC radio because they figure they can get the moratorium lifted on gas and oil exploration on the coast and they figure that now they have a chance to give some more to the multinationals.

I've never been fond of the liberals, but I did have some respect for what David Anderson was able to do on the environment.