Harper wants 'lasting peace' in Middle East

[CHIMO]

CORNWALL, Ont. -- Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Canadians are fully behind the government in its position toward the Middle East, despite recent polls that indicate otherwise.

"I think the position we have, properly understood is exactly the position of Canadians," Harper said during a brief news conference on Friday in Cornwall, Ont. "Canadians want to see peace and stability in the Middle East. Canadians are not neutral on terrorism or on terrorist groups. Canadians want us to work with the international community to develop a strong position that can lead to a durable and lasting peace."

Shortly after the conflict broke out Harper said Israel’s response to the first Hezbollah attack was "measured" and that Israel has a right to defend itself. But as the civilian body count continues to rise steadily in Lebanon and the humanitarian crisis worsens, the prime minister has been criticized for siding too strongly with Israel and for not calling for an immediate ceasefire.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=509939ff-ac7a-4ef5-981a-bc87c9bc4ecb&k=67083

Finally he wants a lasting peace. So nice to hear that he is going back to recognition of Israel and the 1967 border.

[daleo]

1. This sets the bar so high that it can never be attained

Peace can only be achieved in stages, like most things. Setting unattainable goals is usually an excuse for doing nothing.

[Spazito]

2. This quote from harper shows that he is totally ignorant of how

Canadians think and feel:

"I think the position we have, properly understood is exactly the position of Canadians,"

Canadians have said otherwise and have said so overwhelmingly. His bubble is obviously still intact, he is hearing only those voices that agree with him and those voices are but a tiny minority.

[tuvor]

4. "properly understood"

Means he gets to explain it different ways as he sees fit?

[Spazito]

5. Yep, those of us who don't "properly understand" must be idiots

it seems. I keep thinking I can't be shocked any more with his breathtaking arrogance but he manages to make my chin drop yet again.

[Canadian_moderate]

6. Only time will tell how Canadians really feel

While I consider myself a socially liberal, I don't exactly side with liberals on all issues and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of those issues.

I think if most Canadians knew the facts of what life was really like in Israel, they would be much more sympathetic to Israelis. Just imagine if Canada's First Nations people we're lobbing rockets at our communities. It's pretty hypocritical for Canadians and Americans to criticize Israelis for living on "Palestinian" land when we live on land that was "illegally" seized from the First Nations people. Lucky for us the First Nations people are fewer in numbers and are not a violent as the people Israel has to deal with.

To be honest, I don't think Harper has been the nightmare that many of us expected. Luckily he's been moderated by the fact that he only has a minority gov't. I for one, am glad that he's not sided with Hamas and Hezbollah. Most Israelis are a social-democratic people and their society is much more secular than that in the surrounding Arab countries. I find it ironic how people here often side with Islamic extremists. To me, they're just as evil as any other religious extremists.

[Spazito]

7. What Israel is doing to Lebanon and the Lebanese people is

atrocious and there is NO excuse for it, NONE. As to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Israel would do well to conform to UN resolution 242 which would go far to resolving the conflict.

[Canadian_moderate]

9. The Lebanese military could have worked with the Israeli

military to destroy Hezbollah. By strongly supporting Hezbollah, I tend to think that many of these Lebanese civilians are not completely innocent. It's sad yes, but so was the loss of German civilians during WW2. The fact also remains that many of the German civilian casualties supported Hitler.

I don't see any reason why Israel should sit back and watch the Lebanese gov't do nothing about Hezbollah.

[Spazito]

10. Wow, so Lebanese civilians are legitimate targets, according to

you. So, by that same argument, Israeli citizens are legitimate targets to the Hezbollah yet I suspect you would not agree with that part. Hypocrisy, blind belief in a country over humanity is astounding to see yet it seems to be the overriding argument for Israel's actions.

Israel is wrong in doing what it is doing, it is as simple as that.

[Canadian_moderate]

13. The simple truth is that you cannot win a win

against an enemy that hides behind innocent civilians unless you are willing to attack them regardless. Do you think Germany would have been defeated in WW2 if the allies had not targeted factories located in or near civilian areas?

The thing in Lebanon is that those "innocent" civilians seem more than happen to allow Hezbollah to do their thing. I fully understand that Israel does not want to allow Hezbollah to continue its attacks. I'll side with Israel and you can side with Hezbollah.

[Spazito]

15. Hmmm, it seems you have bought into the spin....

"Giving the lie to the "human shields" theory, HRW says its researchers "found numerous cases in which the IDF launched artillery and air attacks with limited or dubious military objectives but excessive civilian cost. In many cases, Israeli forces struck an area with no apparent military target. In some instances, Israeli forces appear to have deliberately targeted civilians."

In fact, of the 24 incidents they document, HRW researchers could find no evidence that Hizbullah was operating in or near the areas that were attacked by the Israeli air force. Roth states: "The image that Israel has promoted of such shielding as the cause of so high a civilian death toll is wrong. In the many cases of civilian deaths examined by Human Rights Watch, the location of Hezbollah troops and arms had nothing to do with the deaths because there was no Hezbollah around."

The impression that Hizbullah is using civilians as human shields has been reinforced, according to HRW, by official Israeli statements that have "blurred the distinction between civilians and combatants, arguing that only people associated with Hezbollah remain in southern Lebanon, so all are legitimate targets of attack."

snip

There are hundreds of similar military installations next to or inside Israel's northern communities. Some distance from Nazareth, for example, Israel has built a large weapons factory virtually on top of an Arab town -- so close to it, in fact, that the factory's perimeter fence is only a few metres from the main building of the local junior school. There have been reports of rockets landing close to that Arab community.

http://www.counterpunch.com/cook08032006.html

Who is using whom as "human shields". It seems, at the least, both sides are.

Edited to add:

It is a red herring of the WORST kind to even intimate that criticism of Israel's actions equates to being a Hezbollah supporter but you knew that already and chose to do so anyway. Keep trying though, it might work with some.

[IntravenousDemilo]

19. A plague on both their houses.

If we knew what we were doing, we would extricate ourselves from all conflicts in that part of the world and send them all to Coventry. Yes, shun them all. They no longer exist. If they don't want to behave like civilized people, we should have nothing to do with them. No trade with us. No assistance from us. They no longer exist. Let their societies wither and die.

[imouttahere]

20. By your logic, US citizens are not completely innocent....

of the atrocities committed in Iraq...

[LeftistGorilla]

8. We do see the Israeli side...

The National Post....Global News....Quebecor...etc


also...
I think genocide can explain the Natives in Canada today....

[MrPrax]

11. Example Please...!!!!!

I find it ironic how people here often side with Islamic extremists.

Could you find an instance or two here at DU, please? I am fucking tired of this blind accusations by rightwingers who declare their support for Harper...

Now post up...or edit it out.

[CHIMO]

12. Tut Tut

You are being unkind.

Obviously it is coming from the press. You know, all those lefties.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article1217413.ece

[MrPrax]

16. Unkind? Moi?

That Fisk article is good...

Have you seen old Juan Cole's latest column...even a mainstream guy like him is starting to see the big picture; it is regional conquest. His little 'theory' is hardly shocking...hell I have been thinking this for a couple of years; full spectrum dominance.

The US wants to get at Iran ultimately and Syria if need be...because Iraq was such a shameless lie and an unmitigated disaster, the neo-cons used up a lot of good will among their base in the US; it seems that the PNAC has found a new base with vim and vigour to yell, "Charge!" one more time to get the project injecting with some warmonger enthusiasm.

Some of them are becoming 'scary stupid' like the Fundies. I find their categorical absolutes a little unnerving, and the fact that all that insipid anti-muslim/arab American stuff, served up 'large' just after 9/11, is coming back into fashion.

I am sure we here in the Canuckistan forum probably noted this little story eariler today.:

Half of U.S. Still Believes Iraq Had WMD
That's right...when talking to an American, you have a 50/50 chance of talking to an idiot.

But I don't think regardless of where you stand, suggesting that an immediate ceasefire is somehow supporting terrorism? The comment is unkind.

I resent the accusation by someone who plainly writes they are a Tory supporter and thinks us lefties are a bunch of Israel haters...that grates me.

:grr:

[CHIMO]

17. Not

Intended for you, but as a comment that I received last evening by making a certain comment.

RF happens to live in Lebanon and the article really seems to show that he is pi..ed off.

The last Fisk information that I had was from Democracy Now, where I found his voice quivering.

Keep up the stringent analysis.

Robert Fisk Reports From Lebanon on the Israeli Bombing of Qana That Killed 57, Including 37 Children
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/31/1435219&mode=thread&tid=25

Robert Fisk Reports From Lebanon On the Intensifying Israeli Attack, Qana, Tony Blair and the Possibility of a Ceasefire
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/01/1434244&mode=thread&tid=25

And more.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/01/1434244&mode=thread&tid=25

And for a bit more. (Most of my info comes from Democracy Now)

Hundreds of Thousands Rally in Iraq Against the War in Lebanon: Middle East Analyst Juan Cole on War in the Middle East - from Baghdad to Beirut
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/04/1418253&mode=thread&tid=25

[Canadian_moderate]

14. Where do I start?

Have alook around on this site and other forums. People are quick to ciriticize Israel, but relatively few seem to have issues with Hezbollah.

[Spazito]

18. I am curious, has it even entered your mind that there is criticism of

Israel's actions simply because their actions are seen as being wrong, full stop? Has it even been a fleeting thought that the criticism of Isreal's actions could be valid based on what is happening now?

[glarius]

3. As usual, he is talking down to us in his superior way....

He says, "I think the position we have, properly understood is exactly the position of Canadians."
Those two words, properly understood hit me right away. In other words if we were just smart enough to get it we would agree with him!