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Isn't it a relief for the conservatives to be a laughing stock in Canada?

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LiberteToujours Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:23 PM
Original message
Isn't it a relief for the conservatives to be a laughing stock in Canada?
Sure, they make us all a little uneasy, but for the most part Canada and our media seems pretty sane when it comes to those whackjobs. Thank Canada they don't have the kind of influence they do in the USA!
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Keep your eyes and ears open so
they don't creep into Canada.
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Nimrod Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Remember
God is on their side, it says so right in their book. You're all just a bunch of devil-worshippers, so how YOU run your country doesn't matter (at least until it's your turn for a pre-emptive strike).

Convenient, huh? Must be nice.
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Not yet, anyway.
These fundamentalist wackos are bent on global domination. Keep your guard up, because they will be increasingly active in your country.
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well, even though American couldn't serve as a good example,
at least we have served as a horrible warning! :)

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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Just make sure they never
buy up the media!!!
And I hope you use our country as an example to be ever vigilant against them.
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lizzieforkerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. How much oil is there in Canada?
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ironflange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Lots of oil, most of it here in Alberta
Most of it is in th oil sands up north, may be more there than in Saudi Arabia, but it's a little hard to get at.

But ssssshhhhhh. Don't tell Bunnypants, we don't want to be invaded.
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lizzieforkerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Just wait....
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. frankly
I think it's quite unfortunate that the right in Canada is now perceived a religious whackjobs.

Most of the present Conservative Party's base isn't that way at all, in actual fact. But the Liberals succeeded in portraying the party that way ... gosh, kinda like the Republicans succeeded in portraying Democrats as devil-worshipping cross-dressers ... and then in defeating an imaginary foe, after playing on public fears and managing to portray themselves as the real Canadians.

I'd rather see a fair fight. Because I think then the Liberals would be more likely to be exposed for what they are: right wing. As it stands, all they have to be is a tiny bit nicer than the Conservatives, and they're just fine with us. 'Cause if we don't vote for them, then gasp, we'll be governed by religious whackjobs.

Of course, what the Liberals would do then is lie. Like they did when the old Conservative Party kinda still existed. GST? They'll repeal it! Free trade? They'll rip it up! But damned if people didn't believe (or pretend to believe) what were obviously great big fat lies, and vote for them.

So what the hell. Basically, the Liberal Party can say what it wants, and do what it wants, and most of the time it's just going to get elected anyhow. And if they're lucky, the Conservatives won't catch on, and take their party back. Which wouldn't matter much anyway, because it's not like they'd hold onto it long before another Mulroney came along anyhow and did just what the Liberals would be doing, while giving voters the illusion of having thrown the bastards out, which voters like to do from time to time.

Meanwhile, and again next time the switch happens, the Liberals can go right on calling themselves the "middle". What would be really neat is if the Conservatives would figure this out and swing over to being pink tories -- maybe switch to the other half of the old name, from being "Conservative" to being "Progressive" -- and call themselves the middle. Nobody'd believe it though; the Liberals are like Lloyd Robertson: always there, always soothing, always saying what you want to hear.

Of course the NDP is handy for them, and all Liberals like having the NDP playing a noticeable role in opposition. The NDP is the real opposition, and so must be kept close. The Liberals can just appropriate anything from that "NDP agenda" that it looks like they can't hold out against much longer, or just enough of it to capture a few extra votes they might be needing or hold onto some that might be looking mushy ... old age pensions, universal health care, unemployment insurance, workers' rights ... stuff that isn't going to interfere too much with their real agenda ... and get on with business.

Business being their real agenda, of course. Paul Martin's business in particular, just for example. It was great fun being Finance Minister and getting to play your own private Monopoly game with the Canadian tax system, I imagine.

Sorry folks, but I regard Liberals as our very own Republicans. They demonize the opposition just as Republicans demonize Democrats, they lie, they exploit the "values" that their constituency holds and that they themselves spit on when the votes are counted and the cameras stop rolling, and they do just enough once elected that they can keep touting themselves as the party of those values -- and the not too bright will believe them, and the self-interested will pat themselves on the back and pretend not to notice that nobody's wearing any clothes.

The only difference is that the values in question are rather more decent than the values of the Republicans' base. And that makes Liberals all the more despicable, for exploiting people's decency -- and allowing less decent people to masquerade as decent by supporting them.

The Republicans have their John McCains, and we have our Warren Allmands. Every dirty, dishonest party needs a few decent faces, and sometimes they even get to go to bat, when the party needs a public decency fix, or when things are going well and there's an opportunity to polish the image to a nice shine, to have something banked that they can point to if a future need arises. But the real face of the Liberal Party is still the ugly, twisted one in that painting in the back room.

Only in the US, among what passes for "left" in the US, could a Liberal hope to get away with spouting these kinds of self-congratulatory platitudes.

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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Uh,you must be dreaming.
Liberals to the right of the Conservatives? I don't think so. Thank god the conservatives lost. Again. And they always will.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. uh, you must not have read what I wrote
But thanks for the contribution.

There are many facets to the "right". Here's a useful guide to some of the problems inherent in an unnuanced discourse about the political left/right:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

There have been several discussions at DU in the past about where people locate themselves on the two-dimensional axes in question. One axis identifies a position on what might be broadly called economic justice issues (I'm not in complete agreement with how the site characterizes the issues and measures the positions), and the other on what might be broadly called personal freedom issues. It's quite possible to be right-wing economically and oppose govt intervention in "private" matters (right-wing libertarianism), or to be left-wing economically and rigidly close-minded on "private" matters ("socially conservative" populism). There are a lot of possibilities, and once you've taken the quiz you might be surprised to see where some leading political figures and thinkers fall.

When I assess the economic policy of the Liberal Party of Canada, I really don't look to the Red Book. If I did, I might actually think that the Liberal Party was committed to, oh, eliminating child poverty by ... what was it? the year 2000 or some such? And when I assess its positions on individual rights/freedoms issues, I consider its leadership on those issues, not positions it takes for political expedience.

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. True Conservatives such as Joe Clark are NOT religious nut jobs but...
unfortunately they are no longer the voice of the NEW Conservatives, the extremists are. Harper is a religious wing nut not unlike those of the right wing of the republican party in the United States. Any 'middle of the road' comments by Harper are simply an attempt to hide their real agenda in preparation for the next election, imo.

Where the Liberal party stands in relation to the real Conservatives and where they stand in relation to the NEW Conservatives are, imo again, two totally different arguments.
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I Would Add
Dalton Camp and David Orchard as well. Although it is kind of hard to define a federal conservative when the so called Conservatives have not had a convention yet that would define their party.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I suspect and hope the 'right' will split themselves yet again...
with the real Conservatives forming a party that espouses the concepts and ideals reflective of the original Conservative Party. I truly believe the merging of the old, true Conservative party was a fallacy in that Alliance member simply took out memberships in the Conservative party and then voted for the merging. Members such as Joe Clark and others knew that and, therefore, supported their Liberal or NDP members as the better of two evils depending on the makeup of their individual ridings.
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Same Wish
I hope that this parliament will last until the Conservative convention next spring.
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