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Hey Canucks I need your help again about something being spread about

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 03:05 AM
Original message
Hey Canucks I need your help again about something being spread about
your health care system. I am trying here to convince Americans that we need a health care system like yours to survive. Of course the people who are against it always bring in some obscure thing that happened in your system and I challenge them because, I don't know, I have heard the hip surgery thing over and over again and usually it's been debunked. Well it seems some fancy lawyer won a case letting some Canadian asshole buy private health insurance no doubt from some American company and damn there is a link. So please help me in telling me what is going on.

The article about this Canadian decision is at:http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/330/7505/1408

The argument I am having with the American person who seems to feel our system sucks but wants to undermine yours as well is here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4517769&mesg_id=4518629

I really believe if you trace all the people involved in that lawsuit that you can trace it back to one of our American health insurance companies and their lawyers but I don't have the resources to do it and I know you guys don't either. They so want to get into your market and they have to fuck up your health care system to do it. So I am actually looking for some truth here and appreciate some help. Thanks again friends. You have helped me in the past in making these crooks honest. Cleita
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Caradoc Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Of red herrings...
Back in '95, my brother went to the dentist because some of his teeth felt 'strange'. The dentist removed a tooth and after 24 hours the bleeding had not stopped. His doctor saw him the same hour he called, and within just three hours he was in a helicopter on his way to the nearest cancer center to be tested for leukemia, which it was. Within a week, four of us were tested and two matches found. Within four weeks I had donated a liter of my marrow, and he was in isolation after radiation and chemotherapy. The reason he's still here today, working, owning his own home with a regular-type job, is because of universal healthcare.
Virtually no waiting (hey, healthcare ain't like a trip to McDonald's, even though US insurers keep lying that you should expect that) no long-term bills, no money out of pocket, no private coverage, and no mounds of paperwork.

A perfect system? That's impossible...you'll always find cases, but the very concept of universal healthcare is so noble, decent and Just (not to say 'Christian' in the most basic sense of the belief) that it cannot be argued with, provided it's managed by a government that believes in it and is an honest steward of it. Once installed, you won't get rid of it because it is the very best answer for all. Even the loathesome Harper Conservatives here wouldn't dare touch it, or even risk any kind of controversial change to it, because the backlash would be absolute. Republicans know this and it scares them.

The US is on its way there, but it's gonna take time and it will likely be rough. But there's absolutely no doubt that universal healthcare is not only best for the nation's health, it's the best for the nation's overall economic health, too. One thing that confounds republicans is that, contrary to their ideology, universal healthcare is far, far less bureaucratic than the private system, as I'm sure you well know.

And we can all thank Kiefer Sutherland's grandad, Tommy Douglas, for making it happen!
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CanSocDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Absolutely!!


Good post and analysis of how the system works.

"...but the very concept of universal healthcare is so noble, decent and Just (not to say 'Christian' in the most basic sense of the belief) that it cannot be argued with, provided it's managed by a government that believes in it and is an honest steward of it."

Nails it. Well said.


.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Look, I am not here to make anyone mad. I am simply trying to
understand how this all works and want to make sure we all get the best health care we can get. I'm not out to "undermine" anything.

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HeresyLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. Made big news at the time.
But as far as I can recall, the premier and pm reaffirmed our system would remain public, and nothing more was ever heard about it.
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sorrywrongemail Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. Chaoulli v Quebec
is what you're looking for I believe?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaoulli_v._Quebec

This wikipedia article wasn't bad last time I checked.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. you have it right in principle

our American health insurance companies ... so want to get into your market and they have to fuck up your health care system to do it.

Yes, in short. And this is one of our fears about NAFTA.

For an inside look and critique of our system from the left:

http://www.healthcoalition.ca/

Huh: "NAFTA Lawsuit seeks to open Medicare to Privatizers" -- didn't even know about that one. Unfortunately, the link goes nowhere at the moment.

Ah, here:

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/national-news/us-quotinvestorquot-seeks-nafta-challenge-against-canadian-health-care

(also the place to look generally for progressive news and views)
In mid-July, Melvin J. Howard, an Arizona businessman, filed legal papers that have set in motion a process that could lead to formal arbitration against Canada under provisions of the NAFTA that permit foreign investors to sue governments for certain investment losses.

And so it starts.

Five years ago, my dad spent 6 weeks in hospital with metastasized melanoma diagnosed too late to be treated. CAT scans, bone scans, biopsies, oncologist, internist, orthopaedic surgeon, MRI on two days' notice cancelled because he had a pacemaker, hip surgery purely for pain relief on two days' notice cancelled because his condition had deteriorated, delivered 30 miles by ambulance so he could die at home, three days later, with hospital bed, morphine pump, lip moisteners, visiting nurse, doctor on call ... and what did it cost us? Parking. And I had to pay $25 out of pocket because the senior cits' drug plan didn't cover the sublingual form of ativan (to alleviate anxiety should he regain consciousness). I was peeved about that.

My sister was diagnosed with stage III colorectal cancer last July. She has had all the colonoscopies, scans, etc., and 6 weeks of outpatient chemo (a body pack) and 5 days/week radiation, with the daily shuttle bus to the big city cancer hospital thrown in if she wanted it. She is undergoing surgery next month. Then on to the big-time chemo. What has it cost her? Parking.

My mum has not yet been definitively diagnosed after a mass on her aorta was detected in August, but the consensus is that it will be lymphoma. She had a biopsy that was inconclusive and recently had surgery to remove as much of the mass as possible for biopsy purposes. The tissue has again been sent to the big cancer hospital and we are awaiting the outcome. Chemo, radiation, surgery -- whatever it is, it will cost her gas and parking. Meanwhile, she decided to get a haemorrhoid on the weekend, and her doctor reiterated that she could come in any time without an appointment. She and my sister are lucky, actually, because the area is underserved by doctors, and this new one opened a practice shortly after they moved there. My mum also regularly sees an ophthalmologist in the nearby small city, having been treated for glaucoma for several years before that at the leading hospital eye institute in the city where she used to live.

I've had two cataract surgeries in the last three years. Cost me taxi fare, as did all the follow-up doctor appointments. I paid for my post-op prescriptions, because I'm not a senior, not poor, and am self-employed with no employer-based supplemental insurance. We also pay for my hypertension meds and my partner's diabetes meds and supplies. I think they all cost about half what they cost in the States. I paid to have a couple of little lumps removed from my leg by a dermatologist in office a few years ago just because they bugged the hell out of me -- $200 for two lumps and a big mole, I think it was. That included the biopsies just to be sure they weren't any more than annoying. If they had been, I expect I would have been reimbursed.

I'm embarking on the whole process of preventive/diagnostic measures to address the likelihood that my sister's cancer (advanced colorectal cancer in a 42-yr-old nonsmoking vegetarian, quite the rarity) is genetic, connected either with my father's melanoma (my brother had a stage I melanoma treated the following year) or with my maternal side's uterine cancers. My sister has started the genetic counseling/screening process on our behalves. I have to get going on the blood tests I've been sent for -- walk into the lab, hand over my OHIP card, wait a while, get stuck with needles. I had to postpone it a bit after my purse with my ID in it was stolen, although that actually wouldn't have mattered since the labs/docs have a number to call for a waiver. And get onto the mammogram thing, make an appointment with the closest Breast Screening Clinic. And get my partner in to his clinic because he isn't managing his diabetes well. And get myself transferred to his clinic, finally, because I'm finally peeved enough with mine. Community Health Centres, my ideological choice, but mine has grown beyond its britches to where it's just a bit too bureaucratic for my taste, and is not as interested in middle-aged middle-class people like myself as it is in its homeless and disadvantaged clientele. It's a good thing it does all the outreach and other services it does, I'd just rather go to a doctor, not a multiservice social centre, and the clinic I now live nearer is less impersonal.

So. I guess you're getting my drift. ;)

There are problems in the health care system. There are shortages of health care workers in some fields. There are waiting lists for some surgeries. Cataract surgery was one and may still be in some places. Mine was urgent (you don't usually go effectively blind in one eye in the space of 6 weeks -- especially at my age!), but also an eye unit had recently been opened in a local hospital specifically to eliminate those delays. Joint replacement surgery is the biggie. I'm sure that's awful if you have that problem, but given that my dad got admitted to ICU two hours after going to a walk-in clinic with a slow heart rate one afternoon and shipped 75 miles by ambulance three days later to the cardiac hospital, for genuinely emergency life-saving pacemaker surgery, I'd probably be a little tolerant of waiting for joint replacement. There are also tales of waits for cancer treatment, but that hasn't been the experience of my sister or mother, or my partner's mother, whose lung cancer that was treated last year has unfortunately now returned ...

My tale, told all over again. I should've just gone and found one of the previous editions!

But you're right. Your health care system and the people who are running it are a threat to ours.
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